Critique my IIPA recipe please

[quincy07]

Hey everyone. I am planning my next brew for a couple weeks when I get my tax return. I "modified" an IIPA recipe I found on here called "Heavenscent", or something like that. The recipe is as follows.

1.75 lbs Crystal 40L (steep prior to boil)
10lbs Pilsner LME
2Lbs Corn Sugar
1 oz chinook (60)
1 oz chinook (45)
.5 oz simcoe (20)
.5 oz Amarillo gold (15)
.5 oz simcoe (10)
Irish moss (10)
.5 oz Amarillo gold (5)
White labs California Ale WLP001 (starter using occasional shake method)
Ferment in bucket in mini fridge fermentation chamber
Dry hop w 1 oz Amarillo gold and 1 oz simcoe 7 days

With my equipment profile in beersmith I'm getting OG 1.084, ABV 9.6% and 83.5 IBU.

I am wanting a good balanced IIPA w plenty of hop flavor and aroma as well as malt character. Do you think this recipe will achieve that? What should I change?

Any and all help is appreciated.

 

[kingwood-kid]

That's a ton of crystal. I don't use any in most of my IPAs, although I do like to use some specialty malts. I'd cut it to a lb or less, but I don't know what your idea of malt balance is. I'd move the 45 minute addition to 60; there's not much benefit to using hops for more than 20 minutes but less than an hour. My other recommendation is to use a lot more hops late in the boil. Right now, you're at 2oz, which I would double or triple.

 

[benco]

I would add more hops! Looks like you only have about 5 oz total. You need more at end of boil,flameout, whirlpool or dry hop.

 

[quincy07]

That's a ton of crystal. I don't use any in most of my IPAs, although I do like to use some specialty malts. I'd cut it to a lb or less, but I don't know what your idea of malt balance is. I'd move the 45 minute addition to 60; there's not much benefit to using hops for more than 20 minutes but less than an hour. My other recommendation is to use a lot more hops late in the boil. Right now, you're at 2oz, which I would double or triple.

If I double my later addition hops and move the 45 minute addition to 60 I end up w 107 IBU according to beersmith, more than I was planning on but not necessarily a bad thing. My idea of malt balance is just as much, maybe a little less, malt flavor as hop bitterness/flavor/aroma.

 

[DeBAD]

That's too much Chinook for bittering. Too high of a percentage of your total IBUs come from your bittering hops. Also for an OG that big you are WAY too low on total hops. You need at least 6 or 7 oz in your boil. I'd pull out the 45 min Chinook and add more Simcoe and Amarillo and try to come in where you want to be IBUwise that way. Plus you probably need another ounce or two added to your dry hop.

 

[quincy07]

So I omitted the 45 minute addition entirely rather than moving to 60, and increased my later boil additions by 50% and doubled dry hop additions for a total of 11 oz of hops and it comes in at 94.4 IBU according to beersmith.

 

[DeBAD]

Sounds great to me. That mutha is gonna pack some punch! After you brew it let us know how it turned out. If you like it I might brew it.

 

[Terek]

I'd sub .75 lb of you crystal for some Munich. Crystal is all about body, head retention, and color. I always put a little Munich in my IPAs and it is awsome

 

[quincy07]

I'd sub .75 lb of you crystal for some Munich. Crystal is all about body, head retention, and color. I always put a little Munich in my IPAs and it is awsome

So you think it'll have too thick of a mouthfeel? What's the benefit of Munich malt? According to beersmith it basically just adds color, the crystal malt does that already doesn't it? Sorry if that's an amateurish question, this is going to only be my 3rd brew.

 

[quincy07]

Sounds great to me. That mutha is gonna pack some punch! After you brew it let us know how it turned out. If you like it I might brew it.

I will for sure. I'm expecting to get my tax refund this weekend so hopefully I'll have it fermenting by next week.

 

[Yooper]

Crystal malts create body, head retention, and sweetness. That's nice in small doses, but in large doses it makes a beer cloying and "thick".

Munich malt, and other character malts, can be used for base malts and can give a toasty or bready or malty feeling to the beer. A little "malty" is good, especially in something like an IIPA while cloying and thick is not. I'd definitely cut the crystal malt in half or thereabouts. Some Munich malt is nice to enhance the malt backbone and give a reddish color, but it's not necessary.

You can go up to about 7% or so of crystal malt in an IPA/IIPA, especially since you're using some corn sugar in place of all malt extract to thin and dry the beer a bit. An IIPA should be drinkable and not "thick", so that's a good move.

For the hops, you generally want to get about 40 IBUs with the bittering hops, and then far more hops at 15/5/0 minutes and dryhopping. A schedule like this would be great:

1 oz bittering hops 60 minutes (or to 40-45 IBUs)
1 oz flavor hops 15 minutes
1 oz hops 10 minutes
1 oz hops 5 minutes
2 oz hops 0 minutes
dryhop 5-7 days with 2-3 oz hops

 

[quincy07]

Crystal malts create body, head retention, and sweetness. That's nice in small doses, but in large doses it makes a beer cloying and "thick".

Munich malt, and other character malts, can be used for base malts and can give a toasty or bready or malty feeling to the beer. A little "malty" is good, especially in something like an IIPA while cloying and thick is not. I'd definitely cut the crystal malt in half or thereabouts. Some Munich malt is nice to enhance the malt backbone and give a reddish color, but it's not necessary.

You can go up to about 7% or so of crystal malt in an IPA/IIPA, especially since you're using some corn sugar in place of all malt extract to thin and dry the beer a bit. An IIPA should be drinkable and not "thick", so that's a good move.

For the hops, you generally want to get about 40 IBUs with the bittering hops, and then far more hops at 15/5/0 minutes and dryhopping. A schedule like this would be great:

1 oz bittering hops 60 minutes (or to 40-45 IBUs)
1 oz flavor hops 15 minutes
1 oz hops 10 minutes
1 oz hops 5 minutes
2 oz hops 0 minutes
dryhop 5-7 days with 2-3 oz hops

That makes a lot of sense. Thanks Yooper for explaining that to me. I will for sure cut the Crystal down and add some Munich.

 

[Jipper]

Good call on cutting down the crystal. 1lb should be plenty, and a little Munich is a good idea as well.

Have you considered using maltodextrin? That will help with body / head retention as well, and with the 2 lbs of corn sugar, might help to balance things out a little. Just a thought.

Simcoe + Amarillo dry hop is an awesome combination that you really can't go wrong with. Good luck, and keep us posted!

 

[quincy07]

Good call on cutting down the crystal. 1lb should be plenty, and a little Munich is a good idea as well.

Have you considered using maltodextrin? That will help with body / head retention as well, and with the 2 lbs of corn sugar, might help to balance things out a little. Just a thought.

Simcoe + Amarillo dry hop is an awesome combination that you really can't go wrong with. Good luck, and keep us posted!

I honestly haven't thought about using maltodextrine at all.

I am hoping to brew this weekend so in 5-6 weeks I'll hopefully be drinking this and getting ready to bottle either a cream ale or Irish red (maybe an amber) and putting the other into the fermentation chamber.

 

[quincy07]

so as of right now I have

1 lb Crystal 40 (still too much?)
12 oz Munich Malt (not enough)
10 lb Pilsner LME
2lb Corn Sugar
1 oz Chinook (60)
1 oz Simcoe (20)
1.5 oz Amarillo (15)
1.5 oz Simcoe (10)
Irish Moss (10) (how much should I add?)
1.5 oz Amarillo (5)
Dry Hop w/ 2 oz each Simcoe and Amarillo (whole leaf or pellets ok?)

OG 1.084/84 IBU/9.6% ABV

How does that look? I got my state refund today so i may order ingredients tonight or run to LHBS tomorrow, haven't decided yet.

 

[DeBAD]

Wow that's a biggie! Sounds really good though. About the only other thing I'd do, but its only my opinion, is go 1/2 pound of Chrystal and 1/2 pound of Carapils.


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[DeBAD]

Oh and make double sure you are pitching enough yeast. With a beer that big you are likely going to need at least 300 billion cells if not more.

Don't forget a blow off tube for fermentation and control your ferm temps. That bronco is gonna buck.

Good luck and report back when you are done. If you like it I may brew it.

Brew on bro!


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[quincy07]

Oh and make double sure you are pitching enough yeast. With a beer that big you are likely going to need at least 300 billion cells if not more.

Don't forget a blow off tube for fermentation and control your ferm temps. That bronco is gonna buck.

Good luck and report back when you are done. If you like it I may brew it.

Brew on bro!


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I am planning to do either a starter w WLP001(California ale?) or 2 packs of rehydrated US05. Haven't decided yet. And as far as ferm temps go I have a mini fridge I am going to modify to fit my bucket, don't have a temp controller tho so I'm gonna have to keep a close eye on it so it doesn't get too cold.

 

[quincy07]

Brewing this today. I'll let everyone know how it turns out in a few weeks when it's all done.

 

[quincy07]

I hit my OG right on at 1.084. The color was perfect too at a nice golden color. The wort tasted great, it was nice and sweet w plenty of hop flavor and aroma. I can't wait to see how this turns out after fermentation.
Here's a few pics of the process and some of my NuCool minifridge converted into a fermentation chamber.





Waiting for this to finish up is going to be rough lol.

 

[DeBAD]

Hardest part is the wait!


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[quincy07]

Indeed it is.

I checked on it this morning and it's got a good krausen going

 

[Yooper]

Looks great! Thanks for the photos. I think it'll be a great beer.

 

[quincy07]

Indeed it is.

I checked on it this morning and it's got a good krausen going

 

[quincy07]

Looks great! Thanks for the photos. I think it'll be a great beer.

I'm really looking forward to this one. The thing that sucks tho is that the weight of my brew pot cracked my glass cooktop making this brew more expensive. Maybe I'll call it shattered glass IIPA lol.


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[DeBAD]

How do you know it has a good krausen going? Keep the lid on that sucker bro! You wanna keep that headspace full of CO2. Also like I mentioned before, watch it close because you might need a blow off tube with a beer that big.


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[quincy07]

How do you know it has a good krausen going? Keep the lid on that sucker bro! You wanna keep that headspace full of CO2. Also like I mentioned before, watch it close because you might need a blow off tube with a beer that big.


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I know I need to keep the lid on, I have been too, I just checked it in the morning to see if had started up yet then put the lid on and have left it pretty much alone besides checking the temp on it every few hours to make sure it isn't getting too cold but its been at about 68F, fermenter temp, all day so i think my fridge is doing its job. And I'm way ahead on you w/ the blow off tube, already have one on it w/ the other end in a mug of starsan.

 

[DeBAD]

Awesome. Brew on man! Let us know how it tastes in a few weeks.



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[old_tx_kbb]

I'm glad Yooper added the reminder to dry hop with 2 to 3 oz . I just dry hopped my double IPA with 4 oz....awesome...

I always try to produce IIPA's that scream HOPS !

2008 BJCP Guidelines: (just a snippet)
14C. Imperial IPA
Aroma: A prominent to intense hop aroma that can be derived
from American, English and/or noble varieties (although a
citrusy hop character is almost always present).

Flavor: Hop flavor is strong and complex, and can reflect the
use of American, English and/or noble hop varieties. High to
absurdly high hop bitterness, although the malt backbone will
generally support the strong hop character and provide the
best balance. Malt flavor should be low to medium, and is
generally clean and malty although some caramel or toasty
flavors are acceptable at low levels.

I'm sure your batch will be quite tasty!

 

[quincy07]

I'm going to be dry hopping w 4 oz total (2 each of simcoe and Amarillo). The wort sample didn't have as much bitterness as I was expecting but it was very sweet so I'm hoping the bitterness was just being masked by the sweetness. It did have a good hop aroma and flavor tho.

 

[quincy07]

K guys. My beer has been fermenting for 10 days now. I am planning to check gravity in the next couple days and have a question about dry hopping. I know I need to dry hop after FG is reached. Is temperature a factor for dry hopping? I am planning to cold crash for 7 days, can I dry hop at the same time or should I do it before the cold crash? Sorry if this is an amateur question, this is my first time dry hopping.

 

[quincy07]

Just checked SG after 12 days in primary, came in at 1.014. One thing that worried me a little was I saw what appeared to be a small amount of mold on the surface of the beer, there were a few yeast rafts still floating and this did not look the same. So I sanitized a 4 cup measuring cup and scooped out offensive pellicle. The beer doesn't smell infected and the hydrometer sample doesn't taste sour so I'm gonna let it ride. I also threw in my dry hops (loose) and in 4-5 days I'll crank the fridge to its lowest setting to cold crash for a few days before bottling.

 

[sikkingj]

Just checked SG after 12 days in primary, came in at 1.014. One thing that worried me a little was I saw what appeared to be a small amount of mold on the surface of the beer, there were a few yeast rafts still floating and this did not look the same. So I sanitized a 4 cup measuring cup and scooped out offensive pellicle. The beer doesn't smell infected and the hydrometer sample doesn't taste sour so I'm gonna let it ride. I also threw in my dry hops (loose) and in 4-5 days I'll crank the fridge to its lowest setting to cold crash for a few days before bottling.

Have a picture of the "mold". I'm guessing you will be alright, as the hops are a pretty strong preservative .


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[quincy07]

I didn't take a picture because my phone is charging in the other room. There were just a few small rafts of it among some larger yeast rafts. I'm not too worried about it either.

I am getting excited for this beer tho. The sample tastes awesome, tho not as bitter as I was expecting but it's obviously not carbed so I'm hoping that will help bring out the bitterness. The hop flavor was definitely present and it has a good malt character too.

 

[quincy07]

Just opened my fermenter for the last time til bottling day to add gelatin. I was relieved to see there wasn't any mold growing on the surface, I guess that means I got it all when I took my last gravity reading and added my dry hops. I'll let it cold crash til probably this weekend then bottle. I'm still really excited about this one lol.

 

[quincy07]

Just bottles this up. Smelled great and tasted even better, even uncarbed. I got a total of 41 12 oz. bottles so ended up just under 4 gallons into bottles. The fermenter had quite a bit of trub and hops left in the bottom of it. Very excited to taste the final product. In the mean time tho I'm going to be brewing up my next batch, an amber, this weekend.

 

[quincy07]

My IIPA after a week in bottles. It poured a small head, as expected, but it has a little lacing to it. Better than several of the beers I buy in the store anyway. It tastes great, a huge hop flavor and aroma but good malty backbone w just a hint of a boozy flavor from the high alcohol content (9.3%). It's pretty clear w some chill haze and a few particles floating around but that's my fault due to a poor pour and only 8 hours in the fridge.

 

[Holter]

I am late to the party here, especially since you brewed it already but I wanted to suggest to you that you start to look at your grist bill by percentages rather than talking in lbs and ounces - it will make it a lot easier to start to understand mash composition and recipe creation. For example, the fermentables you listed in your original recipe were (percentages are rounded):

10lbs Pilsner LME - 73%
2Lbs Corn Sugar - 15%
1.75 lbs Crystal 40L - 13%

and your revised recipe is as follows:

10 lb Pilsner LME - 73%
2lb Corn Sugar - 15%
1 lb Crystal 40 - 7%
12 oz Munich Malt - 5%

To me it is a lot easier to look at it this way. The first rendition you could basically say that your base fermentables were 88% of the beer because you are using Pils malt and Corn Sugar. The revised one has the same for the two base fermentable sugar sources but throwing in 5% of munich malt was a really good idea to cut out some of the crystal flavors. 7% Crystal is still pushing it a bit for my tastes, but at least you were using C-40 which is light enough that it should be awesome still (and the pictures look like the beer is pretty good looking).

Crystal can be an awesome addition to a beer and a terrible one as well. Going too heavy like everyone else said is a bit dangerous for flavor composition, but it will also decrease the shelf life of the hops in your beer.

For IIPA's i like to keep my Sucrose/Dextrose additions below 15%, base malt at least 75% and then I fill in the rest with cara-foam and some light crystal for some body.

For IPA's i add in some Munich malt and cut back the dextrose to make room for it. etc. etc.

Anyway, hope that helps. I wrote up some of my thoughts on a recent IIPA I brewed on my blog here if that helps too for your next batch.

Holter

 

[quincy07]

I am late to the party here, especially since you brewed it already but I wanted to suggest to you that you start to look at your grist bill by percentages rather than talking in lbs and ounces - it will make it a lot easier to start to understand mash composition and recipe creation. For example, the fermentables you listed in your original recipe were (percentages are rounded):



10lbs Pilsner LME - 73%

2Lbs Corn Sugar - 15%

1.75 lbs Crystal 40L - 13%



and your revised recipe is as follows:



10 lb Pilsner LME - 73%

2lb Corn Sugar - 15%

1 lb Crystal 40 - 7%

12 oz Munich Malt - 5%



To me it is a lot easier to look at it this way. The first rendition you could basically say that your base fermentables were 88% of the beer because you are using Pils malt and Corn Sugar. The revised one has the same for the two base fermentable sugar sources but throwing in 5% of munich malt was a really good idea to cut out some of the crystal flavors. 7% Crystal is still pushing it a bit for my tastes, but at least you were using C-40 which is light enough that it should be awesome still (and the pictures look like the beer is pretty good looking).



Crystal can be an awesome addition to a beer and a terrible one as well. Going too heavy like everyone else said is a bit dangerous for flavor composition, but it will also decrease the shelf life of the hops in your beer.



For IIPA's i like to keep my Sucrose/Dextrose additions below 15%, base malt at least 75% and then I fill in the rest with cara-foam and some light crystal for some body.



For IPA's i add in some Munich malt and cut back the dextrose to make room for it. etc. etc.



Anyway, hope that helps. I wrote up some of my thoughts on a recent IIPA I brewed on my blog here if that helps too for your next batch.



Holter

Thanks Holter.

That makes a lot of sense.