Could someone review my mead plan?

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Ashslayer

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Hi, I'm Ash and I'll be brewing for the first time next month so I would greatly appreciate any feedback on how I plan to do it.


First I'm starting with 3 kinds of yeast to figure out which is best:
Farmhouse Sour Ale - I like sour tastes
WLP023 Burton Ale Yeast - The fruity flavors it gives is something I wanna test
WLP720 Blush Wine / Sweet Mead - What can I say? It's a mead yeast and I love sweet


I'll be using 5 liter carboys for this.


Recipe:
Batch 1:
sanitize, sanitize, sanitize
fill carboys 1/3 with tap water.
add 1750 grams of honey.
add water until almost full.
shake violently
pitch the yeast and the juice from 1 lemon as a yeast nutrient.
shelf somewhere dark and cool for 30-40 days.
if there are no bubbles in the air lock, open the bottle for 2 hours and attach the airlock again.
check airlock after 5 more days and if there are no bubbles, bottle it without the sediment.
age for 3 months and taste the flavors.


Batch 2:
Now repeat the recipe with the best tasting yeast, but this time use norwegian mountain honey for one batch and the original honey for a 2nd batch.
Age for 3 months and taste.


Batch 3:
Use the best yeast and honey to make a strawberry mead for mom, aged 6 months by christmas 2018.
Follow the same recipe, except with 1750 grams of honey AND 1750 grams of chopped strawberries.
Leave twice as much air room in the carboy because strawberries add a ton of foam.


I really hope this is the right way for me to go about finding the right yeast and honey to use so that I can age some of that for my mom before christmas. I may even make 2 batches so I have one for myself too.
 
It won't let me edit for some reason, but I'll just say it here.

I think I may need to lower the amount of honey and strawberries since I'll be using less water and the flavor could be too intense. Maybe I should lower it to 1400 grams of each.
 
Hi Ash & welcome to the forums!

I'm not a mead expert so I hope someone else will comment too but I have a few observations.

Farmhouse sour ale yeast - mead must has much lower buffering capacity than beer wort, so I don't think the lactobacillus will end up producing much acid. You might not get much sour taste.

With that amount of honey all your meads should finish sweet, regardless of what yeast you use.

If you don't have a hydrometer, you probably should get one. They are cheap and it will be your best friend. You need it for such things as determining the alcohol percentage and knowing when fermentation is completed.

Cheers
 
Hi Ash & welcome to the forums!


Farmhouse sour ale yeast - mead must has much lower buffering capacity than beer wort, so I don't think the lactobacillus will end up producing much acid. You might not get much sour taste.

With that amount of honey all your meads should finish sweet, regardless of what yeast you use.


Cheers


Thanks for the information. Maybe I could add some extra lemon juice after it's been aged and see how that affects it? I'd just experiment with some in a glass.
 
My 2 cents: You are making some mistakes.
Before you make any mead, listen to some podcasts about making mead.
Basic Brewing Radio did a "best mead practices" episode with a pro mead maker and have done several other mead podcasts as well.
The Mead House podcast has 60 episodes and you should listen to at least the 5 most recent before you make anything.
Things I would do: -Use yeast that has been proven to work with mead.
-Use actual yeast nutrient, not lemon juice. There are many yeast nutrients and schedules for using them discussed in the above podcasts.
-If you want to use strawberries or other fruit, make a base mead and then add the strawberries in secondary. Good Luck!
 
Hi Ash - and welcome. maddscientist is right on the money. Honey has no chemical buffers and when it begins to ferment the yeast can bring the pH down so low (make the must so acidic) that the fermentation will stall. But you are adding lemon juice... So you are hobbling the yeast before you begin. Nutrients contain all kinds of minerals and nitrogen and various other compounds that the yeast need to produce the chemicals they need to both transport and process sugars. Madscientist suggests you watch or listen to a few podcasts. I would suggest that before you touch the yeast you should try to get hold of and read books on mead making by Ken Schramm and by Steve Piatz. They are both recognized experts (whereas many of the others are rather more self proclaimed than recognized... )
 
I just dove in with a batch of JAOM and a JAOM variant (tried and true -- seemed like everyone recommend starting there) and they turned out pretty well (still young).
Beers and dry ciders are more my style.

Thanks for the information. Maybe I could add some extra lemon juice after it's been aged and see how that affects it? I'd just experiment with some in a glass.

Adding it after aging won't tell you how it would taste if the lemon had been added before aging, if that's what you are thinking. In other words, aging changes the flavor and probably the amount of sourness. I can't really be much help beyond this although I do like the idea of a sour mead. I would be thinking more along the lines of a blackberry cyser myself, maybe with a touch of hops.
 
Lemon juice is not nuitrent. Neither are raisins.
Add 1/3 water ( is your tap water chlorine free? If not use bottled water,) yeast, then shake. After shaking add more water. It will be easier to shake when it doesn't weigh as much, and the more rooms to slosh around the better
Removing the air lock does nothing
You need a hydrometer.
 
Second above; not sure how you would shake violently a bucket full of 5 gallons of liquid. I can't do it.
I used a 3-gallon stainless pot (which I normally use for mini-mashes) to dissolve the honey in warm water, stirred with a rod until dissolved, poured in the fermenter and made up the difference with cold water. No need for shaking.
 
all good advise given so far!

1. Use well known yeasts first to get a standard practice down that results in a basic mead you like (lavlin D47, 71B, WLP720)
2. Use yeast nutrient, not lemon juice, as mentioned.
3. Do tonsa SNA (google it)
4. Buy a hydrometer and use it. Measure your starting SG, final SG minimally. For my SNA, I left it in my carboy so I can watch it drop and add the nutrient at the right time.
5. Expect to loose volume when adding fruit/racking more so if your fermenters can handle it, fill em up. For example, if you want end volume 1 gallon with lots of strawberries, add like an extra ~2Liters water or get a mesh bag to help minimize loss of liquid.
6. Don't bottle so soon. Let it sit longer (like primary for a month) then rack and secondary for a while. Taste and flavor. Adjust when you rack if you like then let it sit for more. Time is your friend. Don't race to the bottle or you'll get lots of gunk in the bottom as it clears.
7. Yeast is resistant! If you want to bottle a sweet mead, add sulfite and sorbate. Alcohol tolerance is an estimate. They don't like to stop eating, just like most of us.
8. Read lots. I do and save my favorite and most informative links. Ken Schramm is your friend. I'll paste a bunch here for reference:

Melomel Guide: http://www.winning-homebrew.com/melomels.html
Fruit- secondary quantity addition guide: https://jaysbrewingblog.com/2012/06/27/the-ultimate-fruit-additions-guide-for-mead/
Time of fruit to sit: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7916202&postcount=9
Comprehensive BJCP guide: http://www.bjcp.org/mead/Mead_Study.pdf
BJCP ingredients guide: http://www.bjcp.org/docs/Ingredients.pdf
Yeast Chart: http://www.piwine.com/media/pdf/yeast-selection-chart.pdf
Extended Full Yeast Chart: http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/strains.asp

Mead Recipes:
https://www.denardbrewing.com/blog/category/mead/
http://www.pixiespocket.com/one-gallon-mead-recipes
https://jaysbrewingblog.com/category/recipes/mead-recipes/
 
For what it's worth I generally blend my honey and water in a (sanitized) blender and pulse the bejesus out of it to aerate the must. I am sure you can shake the carboy to add oxygen but I suspect you would need to spend about 3 or 4 hours doing that.
 
I have some questions for you folks:

If you don't thoroughly mix your honey with the entirety of your water, how do you measure an accurate O.G.? You will have layers if you mix and then add more water.

I understand why it's perhaps easier to use "yeast nutrient" and call it a day, but why are you dead set against using fruit for nutrients? What does yeast nutrient have that fruit doesn't? If anything it seems to me like SNA is designed to imitate a steady controlled release of nutrients exactly like the yeast get naturally in the wild -- from fruit or other decaying organic matter. Think of the rationale for using SNA instead of dropping all the "yeast nutrient" in at the beginning.
JAOM looks like the most popular recipe by far and manages to get away with using fruit for nutrients. I'd think this alone would speak for itself.
Is acid the issue? That I could totally understand. Lemon juice pH is around 2.2 and grapes certainly have plenty of acid.
Just trying to make sense of this. Thanks in advance.
 
It is mixed thoroughly. He uses the blender to aerate it only (I believe). JAOM is a beginners/simple recipe and it clearly works, however, popularity does not determine mean best quality or flavor. JAOM is meant to be easy and taste good. Popularity of a thing doesn't determine its accuracy or best practice; the writer of the recipe even states that he needed to 'forget' his experienced practices. Raisins are very nutrientless. They are mostly added for tannin, but even then, their is tannin extract, which is better and more accurate to measure.

Raisins are mostly nutrient-less. They do not leach out as much nutrient that you think and the portions are not formulated, like the manufacturer's is. As for fruit, they are similarly nutrientless. For all intensive purposes, I'd only consider fruit as an extra source of sugar and flavor, but even then I personally discount it because it's so minimal to me.
 
I have some questions for you folks:

If you don't thoroughly mix your honey with the entirety of your water, how do you measure an accurate O.G.? You will have layers if you mix and then add more water.

I understand why it's perhaps easier to use "yeast nutrient" and call it a day, but why are you dead set against using fruit for nutrients? What does yeast nutrient have that fruit doesn't? If anything it seems to me like SNA is designed to imitate a steady controlled release of nutrients exactly like the yeast get naturally in the wild -- from fruit or other decaying organic matter. Think of the rationale for using SNA instead of dropping all the "yeast nutrient" in at the beginning.
JAOM looks like the most popular recipe by far and manages to get away with using fruit for nutrients. I'd think this alone would speak for itself.
Is acid the issue? That I could totally understand. Lemon juice pH is around 2.2 and grapes certainly have plenty of acid.
Just trying to make sense of this. Thanks in advance.
Raisins are the typical fruit used as a nutrient. And they do work, if you use enough of them. Something like multiple pounds per gallon, not just a handful.
When you add other fruit, you should use less nuitrent.
JAOM is proof that enough wrongs and enough time can equal something that sort of kind of tastes like mead. I made a gallon. I will never waste the honey doing that again.
You can make mead with out adding any nutrients, it will turn out, eventually. But why hinder yourself?
You can cook over an open fire, but a oven is better for baking....
 
The thing about JAOM and why it intrigues seasoned serious mead makers is because everything about that mead is on the face of it counter-intuitive but everything works (cannot speak for the taste) because every detail dovetails with every other detail. And the fellow who came up with the recipe AND procedure understood deeply why every detail was as he stipulated. You change anything - anything - and it will not produce the result that the original recipe does. But here's the thing: If you make JAOM a hundred times you will still have no idea how to make a good traditional mead. No idea whatsoever... JAOM is unique. It's often made by beginners because the protocol is so detailed and nothing - NOTHING - is left to the mead maker's discretion. It's like following a Google map. You use bread yeast - that will leave it sweet but you do not touch the fermenter - that would agitate the lees that do not compact well with bread yeast. You use slices of fruit - they are suspended due to the production of CO2 and when the fruit drops to the bottom the yeast is no longer producing enough CO2 to keep the fruit afloat so you can bottle at that point. The choice of oranges is to provide enough acidity to balance the sweetness but not enough to stall the fermentation etc etc etc. Bottom line: IMO, JAOM is not a beginner's mead anymore than cubism is an approach more suited to beginning artists.
 
My 2 cents: You are making some mistakes.
Before you make any mead, listen to some podcasts about making mead.
Basic Brewing Radio did a "best mead practices" episode with a pro mead maker and have done several other mead podcasts as well.
The Mead House podcast has 60 episodes and you should listen to at least the 5 most recent before you make anything.
Things I would do: -Use yeast that has been proven to work with mead.
-Use actual yeast nutrient, not lemon juice. There are many yeast nutrients and schedules for using them discussed in the above podcasts.
-If you want to use strawberries or other fruit, make a base mead and then add the strawberries in secondary. Good Luck!

This is gold. Thanks a lot, kind stranger.
 
all good advise given so far!

1. Use well known yeasts first to get a standard practice down that results in a basic mead you like (lavlin D47, 71B, WLP720)
2. Use yeast nutrient, not lemon juice, as mentioned.
3. Do tonsa SNA (google it)
4. Buy a hydrometer and use it. Measure your starting SG, final SG minimally. For my SNA, I left it in my carboy so I can watch it drop and add the nutrient at the right time.
5. Expect to loose volume when adding fruit/racking more so if your fermenters can handle it, fill em up. For example, if you want end volume 1 gallon with lots of strawberries, add like an extra ~2Liters water or get a mesh bag to help minimize loss of liquid.
6. Don't bottle so soon. Let it sit longer (like primary for a month) then rack and secondary for a while. Taste and flavor. Adjust when you rack if you like then let it sit for more. Time is your friend. Don't race to the bottle or you'll get lots of gunk in the bottom as it clears.
7. Yeast is resistant! If you want to bottle a sweet mead, add sulfite and sorbate. Alcohol tolerance is an estimate. They don't like to stop eating, just like most of us.
8. Read lots. I do and save my favorite and most informative links. Ken Schramm is your friend. I'll paste a bunch here for reference:

Melomel Guide: http://www.winning-homebrew.com/melomels.html
Fruit- secondary quantity addition guide: https://jaysbrewingblog.com/2012/06/27/the-ultimate-fruit-additions-guide-for-mead/
Time of fruit to sit: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7916202&postcount=9
Comprehensive BJCP guide: http://www.bjcp.org/mead/Mead_Study.pdf
BJCP ingredients guide: http://www.bjcp.org/docs/Ingredients.pdf
Yeast Chart: http://www.piwine.com/media/pdf/yeast-selection-chart.pdf
Extended Full Yeast Chart: http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/strains.asp

Mead Recipes:
https://www.denardbrewing.com/blog/category/mead/
http://www.pixiespocket.com/one-gallon-mead-recipes
https://jaysbrewingblog.com/category/recipes/mead-recipes/

wow I have a lot of homework to do. Thanks a lot for these links. I'll make sure to use them so I get it right from the first batch.
 
Haha guys, I'm not here to defend JAOM. I'm just pointing out that there is a reliable example of a mead fermented relatively fast with no fusels that uses fruit as a sole source of nutrient.

So DAP usage is around 0.5-0.75g per gallon?
A small handful of raisins (28g or so) contains about 1g of protein. (Protein is a macronutrient, source of organic nitrogen) and lots of various trace elements including phosphorus (called micronutrients). Saying they don't have nutrients is simply not true.
How do you know the yeast can't reach proteins? If tannins leach out why don't other molecules? What percentage of proteins can the yeast access?
A pound of raisins should have 16g of protein. That seems like "nutrient" overkill for a gallon batch

I looked at studies. Citrus juice also contains both macro- and micronutrients. The peel is especially dense in nutrients.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just want to understand :)
 
as someone else mentioned, I'd recommend adding any fresh fruit to secondary. Primary fermentation can be very vigorous and the addition of the sugar from the fresh fruit will almost certainly cause your brew to foam up and blow off your airlock. I made this mistake early on in my brewing career. Have a good day.
 
good point MeadMiser17. I made a bunch of melomels and didn't even put fruit in the primary. Just made a traditional mead base then aliquoted it out onto frozen/thawed fruit. I want more of a fruit cordial than a dry wine mead. Just my preference and it's treating me well so far. Need to backsweeten badly on a couple though.

@RPH_Guy, I don't add fruit in my primary so I can flavor it differently and just focus on getting a clean ferment so I add yeast nutrient at certain sugar breaks. I prefer a controlled amount rather than trusting that the fruit I add is at a certain calculated nutrient level. Plus, it's cheaper. Fruit is expensive. I only want to use it when flavoring. So for all practicality sake, it's more convenient and IDK how accessible the nutrient is to the yeast or at what rate it leaches out if it's there in the proper amounts in the first place. Too many variables and fruit quality varies too much. Plus, tannins are in the fruit skin itself, are they not? So there's almost distance to travel for the tannins.
 
Greats points, you two. I'll be using the yeast nutrient I ordered and add in the fruit when it's done fermenting or close to being done. My plan was to buy any fruits in season and use them on the spot or freeze them for later. I know some closeby farms that have freshly grown crops for sale each season.
 
Well right now I think only apples are "in season". :)
Unless of course you're in the southern hemisphere, then no fruits are in season.
 
Even if you plan on using fresh fruit "on the spot", you'd do well to chop and freeze them first in any event, then le them thaw before adding them. Freezing fresh fruit causes the ice crystals that form to break cell membranes and you will get a LOT more juice (and hence more flavor) out of them...
 
Haha guys, I'm not here to defend JAOM. I'm just pointing out that there is a reliable example of a mead fermented relatively fast with no fusels that uses fruit as a sole source of nutrient.

So DAP usage is around 0.5-0.75g per gallon?
A small handful of raisins (28g or so) contains about 1g of protein. (Protein is a macronutrient, source of organic nitrogen) and lots of various trace elements including phosphorus (called micronutrients). Saying they don't have nutrients is simply not true.
How do you know the yeast can't reach proteins? If tannins leach out why don't other molecules? What percentage of proteins can the yeast access?
A pound of raisins should have 16g of protein. That seems like "nutrient" overkill for a gallon batch

I looked at studies. Citrus juice also contains both macro- and micronutrients. The peel is especially dense in nutrients.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, I just want to understand :)

Not my work, and sorry about the formatting.

September 3, 2017
Raisins are NOT a significant source of nutrients in mead
Tom Repas
Many older mead recipes suggest adding raisins to mead as a source of ‘nutrients’ for the yeast. The amount of nitrogen added by a handful or two of raisins is miniscule, unfortunately this myth persists.
Raisins and other dried fruit such as figs, dates, or cherries certainly add flavor. I have added dried fruit to many of my meads over the years and I enjoy using them for that purpose. Raisins are not a ‘nutrient’ however, in that they are not significant source of YAN (yeast assimilable nitrogen).
In order for healthy yeast fermentation to take place, yeast requires not only carbohydrate (sugar) and oxygen but also other nutrients including nitrogen, as well as micronutrients such as vitamins and minerals. Without sufficient nutrients, yeast fermentation can become stressed and sluggish- or even become stuck entirely. Sufficient nutrition results in faster and cleaner alcoholic fermentation, while also minimizing formation of unwanted flaws and off aromas (such as H2S). 1, 2, 3, 4
The nitrogen sources utilized by yeast are further distinguished into FAN and YAN. FAN is “free amino nitrogen” including organic sources of nitrogen such as amino acids and peptides. YAN is “yeast assimilable nitrogen” which is the total amount of nitrogen available to yeast. YAN is the total of both the inorganic sources of nitrogen (ie ammonia) as well as the organic sources of nitrogen (amino acids ie FAN).1, 2, 3, 4
Compared to wine or beer, mead is extremely deficient in YAN. A study by Ken Schramm found that the FAN of various honey musts ranged from 5 – 21 ppm. 5
In contrast, the YAN in grape musts is higher than in mead, though the YAN can be quite variable, depending on variety of grape, the location of the vineyard, or even the year in which they were grown. In a Penn State study from 2006 - 2011, the YAN of grape musts ranged from 50-400 ppm. 6 This is why many winemakers routinely measure YAN and if the grape must is deficient, they add additional nitrogen.3,4
Wine is made from grapes; which are the same fruit from which raisins are also made. If raisins and grapes had enough nutrients for healthy yeast fermentation, wine makers would never have to add nutrients to their grape must. However that is certainly not the case: nutrient additions are considered standard and commonplace in the wine industry. 1, 2, 3, 4
Although the amount of YAN required varies depending on the needs of the specific yeast strain, how high the initial °Brix is, and/or if there are other additions (such as fruit or fruit juice)- in general mead needs at least 200-350 ppm YAN. 1, 7, 8
BJCP Certified Mead Judge
Certified Master Beekeeper (University of Montana 2016)
Mazer Cup International, Home Best of Show Winner 2015 & 2017
September 3, 2017
There is a great deal of information available regarding the theory behind and techniques of how to do nutrient additions for mead; this subject has been covered in much greater detail elsewhere. Some of the commonly used sources of YAN and other nutrients include DAP (diammonium phosphate), Fermaid-K™, Fermaid-O™, and Superfood™. 1, 2, 8, 9, 10
So then, how do raisins stack up as a possible nutrient source in mead?
 50 raisins (26 gms) contain 0.8 gms protein 11
This protein content only includes amino acids and not the total nitrogen (including inorganic nitrogen). Although which nitrogen to protein conversion factor should be used in nutritional analysis have been debated, the accepted N:p conversion factor for raisins is 6.25. 11
 Thus 0.8 gms/6.25 = 0.128 gm.
Therefore, if you added 50 raisins per every 1 gallon, then you would be adding 0.128 gms (128 mg) of nitrogen per gallon.
 If every gallon is 3.785 liters, then 128/3.785= 34 mg/L.
That would mean that adding 50 raisins per gallon of mead would provide only 34 ppm of nitrogen (mg/L is the same as ppm). Some old style recipes suggest adding a lower amount of raisins- such as only 25 raisins per gallon. 12
The actual amount of nitrogen provided by raisins will be a bit less than this, because less than 100% of the nitrogen will be available to be consumed by the yeast. A significant portion of the amino acids in grapes and raisins is proline- which is an amino acid not readily utilized by yeast. 4
Thus, at most adding a handful of raisins to your batch of mead will give you perhaps one-tenth of the required nutrients needed for healthy yeast fermentation.
For raisins to be a significant source of YAN for yeast fermentation, you'd literally have to add them to your mead by the POUND- and not by the handful.
Use them for flavor if you wish, but raisins are not a significant source of nutrients in mead.
References:
1. Scott Laboratories. 2016. Fermentation Handbook, pg 35-36.
2. Gardner, D 2017 Nutrient Management during Fermentation. Penn State Extension. Pennsylvania State University.
3. Leonardelli, MJ. Why, When, and How to Measure YAN. Enology News and Notes, Fall/Winter 2013-2014. The Grape and Wine Institute at the University of Missouri.
September 3, 2017
4. Gerling, C. 2010. FAQs about YAN. Cornell University Extension.
5. Schramm, K. 2004 Optimizing Honey Fermentation. Mastering Mead. American Homebrewers Association.
6. Gardner, D. 2017. Why Measure YAN? Variation in YAN Data Over a 6 Year Time Period. Penn State Extension. Pennsylvania State University. 7. Raspuzzi D. 2016 Traditional Mead: Tips from the Pros. WineMaker Magazine.
8. Blount-Elliott, T. 2016 Advanced Nutrients in Meadmaking.
9. MeadMaker Advanced Staggered Nutrient Addition Calculator
10. TOSNA (Tailored Organic Staggered Nutrient Addition)
11. United States Department of Agriculture , Agricultural Research Service National Nutrient Database for Standard Reference Release 28, Full Report (All Nutrients): 09298, Raisins, seedless
12. Colby, C. 2013 Old School Mead Recipe. Beer & Wine Journal.
 
Thanks to you guys my plans were improved and I moved on to using just 1 type of yeast that was made for mead and wine making. Here's a picture of 3 batches I made on my first night with acacia honey, mountain honey and real wildflower honey (meaning honey from all kinds of flowers that grow in the wild).

I have to say that by color, I prefer the dark brown mountain honey. The mountain honey and acacia honey were both liquid and easy to pour. The last honey had the best flavor and was the only solid honey in there. It was really difficult to get it liquid enough to pour into the carboy, but I think it'll be worth it.

Honey from either the solid or mountain honey fell to the bottom of the carboy, even after 4 rounds of intense shaking. I think this won't be a problem because yeast will eventually digest what's on the bottom anyway.


https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/180819516173975552/369547317373829141/IMG_20171016_200837.jpg
 
I don't know how to read a hydrometer, but the gravity said 30. Maybe I didn't have the honey properly dissolved at that time, but I did make sure to mix it really well and immediatly pour a sample. This put the sugar per liter at 55-60-ish.
 
It still refuses to let me edit. grrr. Anyway I managed to swirl the carboy around and the 3rd one is now evenly dark red/brown. My apartment smells wonderful btw. I suppose that's what happens when you open 15 cans of honey.
 
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