Saison Cottage House Saison

[Zippox]

I'm Ganna start gathering ingredients now!

Good luck! Out of curiosity what are you doing about the honey/ where did you decide to pick it up from?

I got a local honey from a guy at work that is mixed flower. It's so tough finding a reasonable price for orange blossom honey that is local.

 

[zhubbell]

I actually am loading up on a bunch of grain, hops sanitizer, & some equipment to make the switch to all grain from northern brewers, so I was just Ganna get theirs - 3# for 19.99

 

[azscoob]

I actually am loading up on a bunch of grain, hops sanitizer, & some equipment to make the switch to all grain from northern brewers, so I was just Ganna get theirs - 3# for 19.99

You are gonna love going all grain!

 

[zhubbell]

I know, I'm already so excited!! I am more of a chef then a brewer at this point, so what I'm looking forward to most is recipe creation & ingredient experimentation, etc, and I was so excited running #s yesterday and seeing I could bring production cost down to $.30/beer for this saison going all grain and buying in bulk! Knowing me I'll have a dozen different renditions thought up, brewed and fermenting within a week of getting all the equipment together for all grain.

 

[zhubbell]

Bringing discuss back on topic (somewhat anyway), I was thinking one rendition I would do on this would be a similar process to a beer a recently tried - Aventinus Ichbock. They freeze the Aventinus, and pick out all the ice chunks, concentrating the flavors of the beer, and giving it the coolest velvety smooth texture. You think this could work on the French Saison as well or am I missing something??

 

[azscoob]

Bringing discuss back on topic (somewhat anyway), I was thinking one rendition I would do on this would be a similar process to a beer a recently tried - Aventinus Ichbock. They freeze the Aventinus, and pick out all the ice chunks, concentrating the flavors of the beer, and giving it the coolest velvety smooth texture. You think this could work on the French Saison as well or am I missing something??

Look into fractional freezing/ice distillation for more info...

 

[zhubbell]

Any suggestions on a good resource for this?

 

[zhubbell]

Ok, I'm almost done gathering everything I need. Grain mill should be here today, hops today or tomorrow. Grain, mash tun, yeast and honey will all be coming from northern brewer. Any suggestions on subs for a couple of the grains?

The 3 I'm looking at are:
For the pilsner malt, what do you think about using the weyermann Bohemian Pilsner instead of the regular pilsner malt? Cool, superior ingredient to use or bad idea that might taste awful??

Cara Munich, which I don't see available here, I was Ganna sub the German Dark munich but also wasnt sure about this vs. a light Munich malt. Any thoughts? Good ideas/bad ideas?

Finally, I have Citra....what about subbing Cascade for the other Hop? I have a bunch, and I know it is a Fuggle Hybrid If I'm not mistaken.

 

[zhubbell]

I know no one has responded yet, but I think I'm Ganna go with the cargill pilsner malt instead of the bohemian, but keep the other two changes.

 

[tagz]

Ok, I'm almost done gathering everything I need. Grain mill should be here today, hops today or tomorrow. Grain, mash tun, yeast and honey will all be coming from northern brewer. Any suggestions on subs for a couple of the grains?

The 3 I'm looking at are:
For the pilsner malt, what do you think about using the weyermann Bohemian Pilsner instead of the regular pilsner malt? Cool, superior ingredient to use or bad idea that might taste awful??

Cara Munich, which I don't see available here, I was Ganna sub the German Dark munich but also wasnt sure about this vs. a light Munich malt. Any thoughts? Good ideas/bad ideas?

Finally, I have Citra....what about subbing Cascade for the other Hop? I have a bunch, and I know it is a Fuggle Hybrid If I'm not mistaken.

I don't think the difference in pilsner malts would be that noticeable unless taken side by side. Certainly won't ruin it.

As for the caramunich, it's actually a caramel malt, so it's different than standard munich. It would be more similar to a caramel/crystal of the same lovibond than it would munich malt. Munich will add maltiness and color without adding any sweetness. That said, many folks add munich to saisons, and many also avoid adding crystal malts to saisons, so you'll make a solid beer either way.

This beer is all about the yeast. If you treat your yeast right, you'll end up with a great saison.

 

[bolus14]

Thinking of making this in the next few weeks, hopefully before I have to go out of town for a week. I'm thinking of using Strisselspalt in place of the Fuggles and dropping the honey or replacing it with honey malt. Any thoughts on the hop substitution? I know it's not a normal sub for Fuggles but it's one of a few traditionally french hops and I've been curious to see how much black currant taste comes out of them.

As for the honey, since I have brewed a couple beers that use honey I can now identify it in pretty much any beer that uses it and have found that I don't like it. So, I guess my question is what is the intent, is it to add to the taste or is it acting as simple sugar to dry it out? If it's to dry it out I would prefer to use plain table sugar, if it's for taste how much honey malt would be good? I'm thinking no more than 8oz.

 

[TCGoose]

I'm with you about honey in beer. I've found that I don't like the flavor much. When this beer was young, I thought the honey came through too much, but it aged out. When I brew this again, I'll probably drop the honey and just add table sugar, or maybe light Belgian candi sugar, to dry out the beer.


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[tagz]

i dont use any sugar when fermenting with 3711. it will be plenty dry on its own. i almost always hit 1.004 regardless of OG.

 

[Zippox]

So, I guess my question is what is the intent, is it to add to the taste or is it acting as simple sugar to dry it out? If it's to dry it out I would prefer to use plain table sugar, if it's for taste how much honey malt would be good? I'm thinking no more than 8oz.

The intent is to dry it out (per the author of this recipe).

 

[azscoob]

Yes, the honey is there to dry it out, but it is also in it because my mindset when designing this recipe was twofold, firstly I wanted to brew a beer with what I imagined a French farm owner would have on hand, things like honey, oats, etc... Secondly was to clear out the grain bins of a few leftovers.

And my reason for the fairly simple spice/herb additions was to explore the yeast, I heard it put out a bit of black pepper flavor and wanted to prop that up and add a bit of balance.

 

[bd2xu]

You succeeded wildly. I brewed a 10 gallon batch and kegged half. Other half oaked with some Chardonnay thrown in and then bottled in Belgian 750s. Those are getting better w age and can taste a hint of the white wine. Next time I brew this though I'd like to reduce the recipe a little to get closer to 6 percent or so. It's a little big where mine came out at 8.3 and out of the saison style, more a Belgian specialty ale.

 

[russeII]

Been lurking here for a while but this recipe got me excited enough to start posting. Brewed this up last Friday and everything is looking great. It was my first winter outdoor boil and a bit more water boiled off then I had expected. I had the option to add some water to it but decided not to and just go with the higher alcohol and lower volume. Obviously this will up the IBUs a little bit but I had already decreased them a little due to the hop quantities I had available so it seems to have all balanced out on paper. Much like bd2xu above, it will end up outside of style guidelines but that doesn't really matter. I'm hoping to age some until my friends bachelor party in June so I'm thinking the extra abv will help it keep longer.

Mainly posting as I read the honey comments above. "Good" honey is expensive around here and I wanted to experiment a bit so I used the golden candi syrup from candisyrup.com. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Haven't tasted it yet but sometimes you just know when something is going to be good and I wanted to add my thanks for this recipe.

One question: you mention bringing the fermenter up to room temperature in the mid to high 70s. Now around here unless I really crank the heat I'm generally sitting around 70 max. Is the added heat just to try and get a few extra points off the FG? I was at 1.007 yesterday and it seems to still be going strong.
Edit:Just say the tip about laundry tubs and aquarium heaters on page 79...

 

[azscoob]

Edit:Just say the tip about laundry tubs and aquarium heaters on page 79...

I was going to direct you to that page... The heat mainly ups the saison funk, the yeast will chew the wort down to around 1.002 at most any temp though...

Glad you are posting after all that lurking!

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

I'm not sure if I'm ready to bottle yet, but it's been in the primary for about 3 weeks now and my gravity reading is 1.010. It's been there for at least 4 days, is it possible it's done? It seems a bit high.

 

[SFGiantsFan925]

I'm not sure if I'm ready to bottle yet, but it's been in the primary for about 3 weeks now and my gravity reading is 1.010. It's been there for at least 4 days, is it possible it's done? It seems a bit high.

Really want to brew this. Is there a target FG people are aiming for, or is it just wait and see where it finishes?

 

[Zippox]

1.010 seems high from what other have said theirs came down to. Most who posted here came down to the 1.002-1.004 range. My first guess would be that you need to raise the temperature to get the yeast going on its final kick. What do others think?

 

[BHowe]

Mine hit 1.003 with Belle Saison Dry yeast from an OG of 1056

 

[SFGiantsFan925]

And any need for a starter with a 5 gallon batch and only 1 pack of yeast? I know its under pitched that way, but wanted to see if most people were using starters.

 

[Zippox]

And any need for a starter with a 5 gallon batch and only 1 pack of yeast? I know its under pitched that way, but wanted to see if most people were using starters.

I wondered the same thing.

For Lambics you want to underpitch and strain the yeast to get the funkiness out of it. Now for some Saisons you can get funkiness out of the yeast, but the one for this recipe (3711) isn't known to have much funk. What it is known for is the pepperiness and probably some other things. So if I were to make a guess, I would think you would want to pitch appropriately.

To play devil's advocate, this yeast is a beast and isn't finicky like other Saison yeasts and doesn't typically stall. So perhaps underpitching/ using just 1 pack of yeast is fine. I think a starter is highly recommended for nearly all other saison yeasts, though.

I'd like to hear what others say.

 

[azscoob]

I wondered the same thing.

For Lambics you want to underpitch and strain the yeast to get the funkiness out of it. Now for some Saisons you can get funkiness out of the yeast, but the one for this recipe (3711) isn't known to have much funk. What it is known for is the pepperiness and probably some other things. So if I were to make a guess, I would think you would want to pitch appropriately.

To play devil's advocate, this yeast is a beast and isn't finicky like other Saison yeasts and doesn't typically stall. So perhaps underpitching/ using just 1 pack of yeast is fine. I think a starter is highly recommended for nearly all other saison yeasts, though.

I'd like to hear what others say.

I use a starter when I brew all my saisons, but I would think a single pack without a starter wouldn't be a big issue...

 

[orangemen5]

I'm not sure if I'm ready to bottle yet, but it's been in the primary for about 3 weeks now and my gravity reading is 1.010. It's been there for at least 4 days, is it possible it's done? It seems a bit high.

I brewed this awhile ago checked it at 2 weeks was at 1.010. Gave it another 2 weeks dropped 3 pts to 1.007. I used belle saison yeast (not sure what you used). Fermented mine at 90-95 degrees and still took that long. I'd leave it another week just to be sure. Then bottle.

 

[Cheesy_Goodness]

Thanks all. 1.010 seemed a bit high but it passed the 3 day test so I'm glad I double checked before bottling. I'll try and kick up the heat a bit and if it's still the same this weekend I'll give it a go.

 

[StarrHill]

I'm going to brew this this weekend, but looking for a finished beer with a little less kick. By my calculations, dropping the Pils to 7# should bring OG down around 1.050, settling my abv closer to 6% if I have the great attenuation everyone seems to get with 3711.

Any other recommendations with that? Any change to the hop schedule to keep it balanced? Thanks

 

[azscoob]

Drop the bittering hops a wee bit to keep the IBU in check, and possibly drop the Pilsen one lb, and the wheat a half lb to better maintain the balance

 

[Zippox]

Took a sample from the carboy at just over 3 weeks. I was no where near my intended starting gravity of 1.060 and came in at 1.052 on brew day. Looks like the FG is at 1.004~3. Aroma was fantastic, taste was more mild than I was expecting but it's always hard to tell at this point. Looking forward to seeing how it is after a month in the bottles. I'll report back!


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[rdneckbrew]

I kegged this up the other day and it was great but had very spicy bits to it. Still it was delicious but then I got to thinking about SN's Ovila. I went and sliced a Mandarin Orange and put one slice in the glass and holy cow! It took just enough of that bite off and made this great beer even better. Thanks for the recipe!

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[rdneckbrew]

Stupid auto correct. It had a very spicy bite to it not bits!

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[StarrHill]

So here's my plan for "detuning" this recipe down to about 1.050-1.053 OG, which should net me an ABV in the 5.7-6.3% range. I manage around 80% efficiency with my BIAB system.

Grain/Sugars:

7.0 lbs. Pilsner Malt(2-row)
1.0 lbs. White Wheat
0.50 lbs. CaraMunich Malt
0.50 lbs. Flaked Oats
0.50 lbs. Orange Blossom Honey (added with 5 minutes left in the boil)

Hops/Spices:

0.50 oz. Sorachi Ace, 10.50%aa @FWH.
0.50 oz. Fuggle, 4.75%aa @30 min.
1.00 oz. Fuggle, 4.75%aa @15 min.

 

[SFGiantsFan925]

Made this Friday 2/7/14. Used 2 smack packs of 3711. It formed a perfect krausen and has been furiously bubbling for the last couple days. Smells great. Cant wait to pull the first hydro sample. Holding steady at 72F in the ferm chamber.

Cheers to my first Belgian anything!!

 

[azscoob]

Made this Friday 2/7/14. Used 2 smack packs of 3711. It formed a perfect krausen and has been furiously bubbling for the last couple days. Smells great. Cant wait to pull the first hydro sample. Holding steady at 72F in the ferm chamber.

Cheers to my first Belgian anything!!

I'll drink to that!!:rockin:

 

[Zippox]

gallon 5 of 10 bottled. This sure takes time!


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[Zippox]

Note to self. Next time I fill up the bottling bucket for the second half of 10 gallons, close the ball valve before siphoning and going upstairs to get the sugar water.


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[Rdom]

Note to self. Next time I fill up the bottling bucket for the second half of 10 gallons, close the ball valve before siphoning and going upstairs to get the sugar water.


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Ouch! How much did you lose?
I thought I had done that the other day. I ran back down the stairs and found that I had actually remembered to close the valve. Beer makes one forgetful

 

[Zippox]

I lost an even gallon. I had to eyeball the sugar water . I had it clocked in for 5.4 gallons and it went down to around 4.5. I think I should have withheld a wee bit more but that's alright. I don't expect bottle bombs... Yet.


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[Zippox]

At some point in the last week the bucket for the blowoff tube went dry. I didn't taste anything wrong with the still beer so it seems the CO2 blanket was doing its job.


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