Coronavirus and starsan

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Special Hops

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Just a random thought I had as I have seen store shelves empty of hand sanitizer and Clorox wipes due to Coronavirus panic buying.

Does Starsan kill viruses? I’ve got plenty of concentrate I could mix up as a sanitizer if regular cleaners continue to be hard to find.

My gut tells me Starsan is designed to take out bacteria and wild yeast, and would not be particularly effective on viruses. But it’s probably better then nothing.

Just wondering if anyone knows more about it then I do.
 
StarSan kills with its low pH and a mild soap solution which together cause cell walls to rupture killing spores, mold, bacteria, etc. But I doubt it has much effect, if any at all, on viruses. Not a problem for brewing since viruses typically require a living host to survive.
 
My son is a post-doc microbiologist. I asked him the same question, he doubted it would work properly.
Well I'm just a pre-doc microbrewologist and to my untrained foramen magnum it already sounded highly unlikely.

Would be cool though, for posterity, if your son could shed some light on the scientific reasons it won't work.
 
StarSan is not even a disinfectant and has at best a bacteriostatic action with limited scope so I wouldn't rely on it having any effect at all. A 70% alcohol solution or diluted bleach on the other hand is effective according to the CDC.
 
Just a random thought I had as I have seen store shelves empty of hand sanitizer and Clorox wipes due to Coronavirus panic buying.

I get that, in a 'panic' kind of way.
In Australia it's not tinned food, or rice/pasta, or dried food, not even sanitisers that have been on the panic list. The panic buying has been for toilet paper. Supermarkets have been out of it for weeks (it's an ongoing joke here now). What kind of moron thinks of toilet paper before food supplies?
 
Well I'm just a pre-doc microbrewologist and to my untrained foramen magnum it already sounded highly unlikely.

Would be cool though, for posterity, if your son could shed some light on the scientific reasons it won't work.

I'm going to sound like I know what I'm talking about, but it's really from him.

The Coronavirus is an enveloped virus, meaning it has a sort of coating or wall around it. That envelope is made of lipids, i.e., fats. What dissolves fat? Soap....

There's also the question of how acidic a solution one would need for Star-San to work, if it did work.

As long as I'm on the subject, one of the issues he noted is that masks aren't as likely to be effective as people think because they don't know how to use them properly. If the mask doesn't seal to the face, you breathe around it, and thus there's no point, no filtering. Further, people aren't trained how to "doff" the mask properly. If the mask has done its job it will have filtered out the infectious agent, which is...on the mask. If you can't remove the mask without touching it, without touching the mask to surfaces you then touch, or you don't dispose of it properly....that defeats the purpose.

My mother-in-law is in the highest-risk group as far as age goes. She lives independently, with our help, but I'm concerned--if she contracted Coronavirus, she's in a world of hurt. So we've already discussed her staying home, isolated from the outside world until this blows over or until a vaccine is created. That means no visitors who aren't masked and gloved, no going out...and that's a potential issue as the last thing you'd want elderly people to experience is social isolation.

So we'd shop for her--but how do you get the food to her w/o potentially infecting it?

That's why I originally asked my son about Star-San. My theory was I'd put the groceries on the front porch, spray them down with a disinfectant, then leave. She'd retrieve the items which were now....presumably virus-free.

I've got some Lysol spray and wipes, which should suffice. According to the link below, a 70-percent alcohol solution should also work. I'd like to get some rubbing alcohol or similar that has at least 70-percent alcohol in it. I'd use my little spray bottles for Star-San and spray down surfaces with that.

Anyway, here's a link from the CDC about environmental cleaning and disinfection methods for the Coronavirus:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/home/cleaning-disinfection.html
 
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As for not infecting the groceries wear a mask properly and put on gloves right before you start shopping.
Drop the groceries on her porch and if she can wait a couple of hours or more before picking them up that should provide enough safety as viruses are short-lived outside of a host and Covid should be no different. As for social isolation I'm afraid that's the only really safe option as painful as it may be for the affected person.

Currently living right in the middle of the world's second (chronologically and by population) quarantine zone I can tell you it does not feel good at all but we all have to try and manage somehow.
 
The Federal Insecticide, Fungicide, and Rodenticide Act governs the labeling of everything from sanitizers to disinfectants to liquid chemical sterilants (that are not used on critical or semi-critical medical devices - those are FDA regulated). There is no distinction between "brewery sanitizer" or any other sanitizer. They all have to demonstrate effectiveness against a panel of organisms, when used per the manufacturer's label instructions. Here are the test guidelines for sanitizers for hard surfaces (under which Star-San falls): https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=EPA-HQ-OPPT-2009-0150-0022. Five Star Chemical would have had to submit test data demonstrating a 5-log reduction in population of E. coli and Staph. aureus under AOAC test method 960.09.

In order to make a claim for destruction of viruses (or other certain microorganisms) they would have to follow specific tests demonstrating the effectiveness against viruses. Then the product would be registered as a "disinfectant."

Now, just because something isn't labeled as a disinfectant, doesn't mean it won't kill viruses; it just means that the company has not registered that chemical with the EPA as a disinfectant (virucide). Will Star-San kill COVID-19? One can postulate, but without specific data, it's not a claim anyone can make 100 %.

The EPA definitions of various chemicals can be found here: https://www.regulations.gov/document?D=EPA-HQ-OPPT-2009-0150-0034
 
...a couple of hours or more...should provide enough safety as viruses are short-lived outside of a host and Covid should be no different.

Please be careful, as this is unfortunately not reliable. One reason COVID-19 is so concerning is because it's able to survive on a surface for days, not hours. Although details are not yet forthcoming about the conditions necessary for this.

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-coronaviruses
 
Unfortunately much is still uncertain so one should definitely still take all possible precautions (mask, gloves etc.). Waiting as long as possible before actually touching the items would just be one further layer of precaution on top of that in the hope that it will further mitigate risk by some degree.
 
To play it even safer one could drop the groceries into some sort of enclosure and place this UV lamp inside, leaving it on for a couple of hours at least. Just make sure you don't expose your skin or your eyes to UV radiation as it's very harmful, the lamp should only be turned on once the enclosure is shut and turned off before opening it up again.

https://www.amazon.com/Coospider-Aq...keywords=uv+lamps+water&qid=1584019868&sr=8-2
 
Unfortunately much is still uncertain so one should definitely still take all possible precautions (mask, gloves etc.). Waiting as long as possible before actually touching the items would just be one further layer of precaution on top of that in the hope that it will further mitigate risk by some degree.
FYI - There's a new study out, still awaiting peer review, that indicates longer period of viability (days vs. hours) on surfaces: https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.09.20033217v1.full.pdf
 
Just a random thought I had as I have seen store shelves empty of hand sanitizer and Clorox wipes due to Coronavirus panic buying.

Does Starsan kill viruses? I’ve got plenty of concentrate I could mix up as a sanitizer if regular cleaners continue to be hard to find.

My gut tells me Starsan is designed to take out bacteria and wild yeast, and would not be particularly effective on viruses. But it’s probably better then nothing.

Just wondering if anyone knows more about it then I do.

I sent a note to Five Star and got this in response:

"Thank you for contacting Five Star Chemicals.
StarSan is an EPA registered acid sanitizer meant only for industrial size stainless steel applications. StarSan is not tested or proven to kill or fight COVID-19."
 
I'm sure they are CYA so you don't sue them when you wreck your marble countertops with the stuff.
It would be in violation of federal law (FIFRA EPA Regulations) for them to tell you that it worked for anything other than their proven label claims.

Also, testing against viruses is costly. I was involved in some preliminary virucidal testing for a compound against HIV and Bovine Parvo virus. Three preliminary (screening) tests ran about $50k, and that was 12 years ago.
 
I'm sure they are CYA so you don't sue them when you wreck your marble countertops with the stuff.

Yeah. But this is kind of comical...


upload_2020-3-12_10-34-52.png


Used only for industrial size stainless steel applications.
 
The Coronavirus is an enveloped virus, meaning it has a sort of coating or wall around it. That envelope is made of lipids, i.e., fats. What dissolves fat? Soap....

This is worth emphasising - simplifying a bit, viruses are just bits of genetic material wrapped in a ball of fat. So although they're presented as some kind of inferior option, in fact soap, washing-up liquid and any other "degreaser" are your absolute #1 weapons for "killing" viruses.

Shops are keen to sell you stuff as anti-bacterial which may be good at killing bacteria, but that's not what we're really worried about here - it's like going elephant hunting with a fishing rod. Great for fish, not much use against elephants. Although often what actually kills you is not the virus but the secondary bacterial infections, so it's not completely stupid to worry about bacteria but to be honest good general hygiene should be enough in the home, and you're as likely to pick up the bacteria in hospital.

Bleach and/or acid will help against viruses, even if soap etc is the first choice. Starsan is 50% phosphoric acid with a bit of detergent, so yes it will work but even ordinary malt vinegar (5%-ish of acetic acid) will work reasonably well against viruses, even when diluted 1:10 in hot water - see

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article/file?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0008987&type=printable

A squirt of washing-up liquid in vinegar will make it even more effective.

It's also worth emphasising that the first line of defence is just keeping surfaces clean, which in itself will remove 99% of viruses - "disinfectants" should be about knocking out 99% of what's left after cleaning. Part of the problem with skin, which is why you get this 20-second suggestion, is that viruses a)stick quite well to it and b) they get caught in the wrinkles, which is obviously more of a problem when you're older. I'm surprised clinics aren't selling Botox for hands as a preventative measure!

And keep washing your hands with soap and water - this site will help you find a song to sing for the necessary 20 seconds : washyourlyrics.com
 
Thanks for the responses. I didn’t figure 5-star would say it was safe to use even if they know it, due to legal reason.

and I’m not so much thinking by about my hands, since washing well for 20 seconds seems to be the best approach. It would be a last resort sanitizer if half the family was ill and we need to wipe down surfaces, doorknobs, counters, etc and all the stores are out of the standard cleaner and wipes.
 
Drop the groceries on her porch and if she can wait a couple of hours or more before picking them up that should provide enough safety as viruses are short-lived outside of a host and Covid should be no different.

Don't know what to believe anymore but a study I read today said the Corona virus(s) can survive up to 3 days in air and 30 days on surfaces. Another story said it can only survive on surfaces for 3 days and in the air for 3 hours. And one study says the virus can live in your respiratory tract for 37 days, meaning if you get it, you can infect other people for more than a month.
I was on track to cut back my drinking and losing weight, now I'm reconsidering that, maybe we should all just celebrate every day as it comes?
:cask:
My mom is 87, stubborn as hell, not entirely logical and the chance that she's going to stay home is about zero.
 
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Don't know what to believe anymore but a study I read today said the Corona virus(s) can survive up to 3 days in air and 30 days on surfaces. Another story said it can only survive on surfaces for 3 days and in the air for 3 hours.
My mom is 87, stubborn as hell, not entirely logical and the chance that she's going to stay home is about zero.
I’m sure any of these numbers are highly dependent on other factors such as temperature and humidity. As to what’s realistic in the real world. Who knows?
 
I’m sure any of these numbers are highly dependent on other factors such as temperature and humidity. As to what’s realistic in the real world. Who knows?
There is, nonetheless, a simple, practical takeaway. It appears that a) it may well be more durable outside a host than the common influenza viruses, and b) no one knows just how durable it is. Therefore, prudence dictates far greater vigilance than we are accustomed to in usual epidemics. It's not paranoia when the risk is just not well understood.
 
Iodophor has been tested as an effective anti-viral.

I was thinking about that too. As long as you don't mind the longer contact time and the brown stain.

Back when I used to lead 3+ week canoe trips we used to sanitize river water with iodine tablets for drinking. After a few days you would actually start to enjoy the slight flavor that the iodine would give the water.
 
Started a thread asking the same question on Saturday about using Star San for corona virus. At least you got some lively discussion. Everyone said to use bleach right away and killed the conversation.
 
Started a thread asking the same question on Saturday about using Star San for corona virus. At least you got some lively discussion. Everyone said to use bleach right away and killed the conversation.

Timing is everything...

Last Saturday the sky was just falling, Wednesday a NBA player is confirmed to have contracted it and America comes to a screeching halt.

That is one hell of a player's union....
 
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StarSan is not even a disinfectant and has at best a bacteriostatic action with limited scope so I wouldn't rely on it having any effect at all. A 70% alcohol solution or diluted bleach on the other hand is effective according to the CDC.
and the interesting this is a 70% alcohol solution is more effective than the 91%... strange but true in real world use but the extra water helps here.
 
CDC recommends 1/3 cup bleach in 1 gallon of water. Put that in a spray bottle and go for it. Pretty easy surface sterilizer.

And when it’s pH adjusted to 6.5 with vinegar, makes this solution a much more effective killer.
 
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