Corny can't hold a 5 gal brew!?

[Beer0clock]

New brewer and new member here, hi!

After reading on this forum and others for weeks, I finally took the plunge and started my first brew. Its a Festa Brew West Coast IPA. 23 Liters.

Its getting close to ready and I was getting set up to bottle it, but then I found the huge debate about kegging vs bottling. The kegging argument won me over hands down, and I ended up buying this keg system:

http://www.ontariobeerkegs.com/Dual_Tap_Kegerator_Complete_Kit_p/newkegs-2kegdualregkit.htm

Note that the Cornys I bought look a little wierd - they dont have that black plastic on top like they typical Cornys do. However as far as I know its still a Corny. It says "Max Capacity: 5 gallons" right on the side.

So out of curiosity I tried to pour 23 liters of water from my bottling bucket into the Corny, and it didn't fit! There was a lot of water still left in the bucket. It turns out the Corny only holds about 18 - 19 liters.

At this point I would just like to say why in the @#$%! can't we all just use the metric system already? I swear to god I would vote for any leader who outlawed the word "gallon". Yeah pretty frustrated right now. /rant

Anyway so heres the deal:
5 us gallons = 19 liters
5 imp gallons = 23 liters

And of course everyone just says "gallons" without classifying whether they are imperial or US.

Anyway I'm just wondering how people handle this situation?

Festa Brew kits are 23 liters, is that unusual? Are most brew kits 19 liters and I just chose a bad one?

Do I have any options other than kegging 19 liters of the beer, and bottling the other 4 liters? I really have my mind set against bottling. I would not have dropped several hundred dollars on a keg system if I knew I would still have to bottle some of the beer anyway.

What am I missing guys? My mind is absolutely BLOWN that I literally spent hours and days on this forum reading about kegging and the pros/cons of kegging vs bottling, and I don't recall one single mention that a keg does not fit a full batch of beer. How is that not the most talked about CON when discussing kegging vs bottling??

 

[LLBeanJ]

How did you determine that you have 23 liters in your bottling bucket to start with? Did you weigh it?

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

I think most people either brew by the American gallons and pounds/ounces or do the math to convert from AM gal/lbs/oz to their desired measurements.

You could have just brewed your 23L kit to 5.5 AM gallons and had a perfect 5 AM gallons to fill your keg. As for now, I don't see anything else you can do except fill your keg and bottle the excess...

 

[Beer0clock]

The bucket has a graduated scale going up the side that clearly indicates each liter mark.

 

[LLBeanJ]

I could be wrong, but aren't some kits designed to yield 5.5 or 6 US gallons into the fermenter so that after leaving behind any trub the packaging yield would be 5 gallons? I'm fairly certain that post-ferm, after you transfer 5.0 US gallons to your keg, you're not going to have much usable beer leftover in the fermenter to bottle.

 

[Beer0clock]

You could have just brewed your 23L kit to 5.5 AM gallons and had a perfect 5 AM gallons to fill your keg.

Hey Smokey,
This sounds interesting, however I'm not sure I understand.
The Festa Brew kit comes as 23 liters of liquid wort. I'm not sure how to turn that into 5.5 gallons (21 liters) without pouring 2 liters down the drain...

 

[LLBeanJ]

The bucket has a graduated scale going up the side that clearly indicates each liter mark.

Those are notoriously inaccurate. Have you confirmed the accuracy of yours?

Edit: Here's mine...

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

Hey Smokey,
This sounds interesting, however I'm not sure I understand.
The Festa Brew kit comes as 23 liters of liquid wort. I'm not sure how to turn that into 5.5 gallons (21 liters) without pouring 2 liters down the drain...

My bad bro, I thought it was an extract kit where you add water to pre-hopped malt extract. My advice is useless to you lol...

Edit: X2 on the lines on the side of your bucket being accurate. If your bottling bucket has 3 rings around the outside near the top, 23L is likely level to the middle of the three rings...

 

[vincentAlpha]

Yea that is one thing that has bothered me as a homebrewer in Canada, when in doubt if someone is giving measurements in Gallons assume US not Imperial. Better off dealing in Litres in Canada since most homebrew stores I've run into deal with them for volume. As for the kegging/kit thing the only thing you can really do is keg what you can and bottle the rest. If you are hard set on the pre-made wort then just invest in a few good swing tops to make up the rest, bottling into that is going to be waaaaay less painful and save you the cost of a capper and having to have caps on hand all the time(not expensive but a pain nevertheless). If I were you I'd prime in a bottling bucket and rack into the keg from there that way the keg gets carbed naturally (saving you CO2) and then your bottles will get the right carb as well without mucking about measuring out teaspoons of sugar.

 

[LLBeanJ]

But, really, 6.0 gallons into the fermenter is perfect for filling a 5 gallon keg. You'll lose .5 gallon to trub and still have another .5 gallon to use as a buffer to keep your syphon out of the yeast.

 

[Sir-Hops-A-Lot]

Are you Canadian? The conventional batch size in Canada seems to be 6 US gallons (23L) while in the US and on this site it is 5 US gallons (19 L)

Your Festa kit yields 23L minus some lost in the trub at the bottom of the fermenter.
Recipes on this site often recommend fermenting 5.5 gallons (21 L) because you'll lose about .5 gallons in the grub.

I usually put about 4 or 4.5 gallons in my corny and then carb some in bottles.

Here is a thread that talks about Corny keg capacity: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=1952

 

[Swab]

You're right, Festa kits do produce more beer than a keg will hold. You have 2 options, dump the extra or bottle it. At the end of the day it's not a big deal either way. Also it won't be 4l you end up bottling, some will be lost to yeast, and hops (should you chose to dry hop)

I brewed Festa kits for a few years. I got in the in the habit of bottling a few liters each batch. It's nice to have bottles around on occasion.

Once you move on from Festa kits to brewing, you'll adjust your batch size accordingly.

 

[SmokeyMcBong]

If I were you I'd prime in a bottling bucket and rack into the keg from there that way the keg gets carbed naturally (saving you CO2) and then your bottles will get the right carb as well without mucking about measuring out teaspoons of sugar.

I could be wrong as I haven't used the keg I have yet but, I believe that if you naturally carb in a keg, you use less priming sugar then in the bottles? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong please...)

 

[whoaru99]

Well, you could boil off some of the liquid, decreasing the volume and increasing the OG. Assuming, that is, you have the boil capability. Could/will change the character of the brew too, then you'd have to cool it as well. May be not worth the work to do that because if you go that far you might as well start using extract.

 

[midfielder5]

Most here, I would surmise, have little or no experience with a Festa Brew kit. May not be anything wrong with it, just saying that our kits in the USA where most of us live are usually 5 gallons (we always use US gallons in the US, never Imperial- that is British I think?). We lose some to yeast, trub, sample losses etc. My batch size (target!) is 5.25g for all grain.

Cornelius kegs hold 5 x 128 ounces. Sixtel kegs hold over 6 gallons.

In the end, you will likely have some left over to bottle or throw away. Or stop siphoning when the corny is full, siphon to a one gallon jug as a secondary- and do something funky with it. Coffee, vanilla, dry hops, fruit, whatever. or freeze it for liquid yeast starters. or toss the rest in the fridge and after it is cold, do 50-50 with grapefruit or other carbonated drink and you just made a "radler."
So get creative and welcome to HBT!

 

[whoaru99]

But, really, 6.0 gallons into the fermenter is perfect for filling a 5 gallon keg. You'll lose .5 gallon to trub and still have another .5 gallon to use as a buffer to keep your syphon out of the yeast.

If it's prehopped wort do you think there'd still be that much trub loss?

 

[LLBeanJ]

If it's prehopped wort do you think there'd still be that much trub loss?

A little less, but there will still be a substantial yeast cake and possibly hot/cold break depending on how much effort is made to leave it in the kettle. I dump it all in the fermenter and that usually results in about 1/2 gallon lost to cake.

I will say this, though, ever since I began brewing 6 gallons to get 5 in the keg, my beers clear a whole lot faster once on tap. I used to pick up a lot of yeast during the transfer, but not so much any more.

 

[vincentAlpha]

I could be wrong as I haven't used the keg I have yet but, I believe that if you naturally carb in a keg, you use less priming sugar then in the bottles? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong please...)

I've heard that before as well but I've found that I can keg using the same sugar amount as if I bottled and it turns out fine(though it has left me scratching my head) but there is a bit of discussion about that around here. Either way, if you dial it down you might wind up a bit under-carbed in the bottles but considering it was essentially going to get tossed anyway. Another easy solution would be the Cooper carbonation tabs, more trouble than I'm likely to bother with but for 2-4 75cl bottles I think I could live with it.

 

[Beer0clock]

Wow I cant believe all the replies in the past hour. Thanks!

I checked my liter markings on the side of the bucket using a measuring cup from the kitchen. Its pretty bang on.

I must have done something wrong (or right?) because when I racked from primary to secondary, I got almost all of the liquid, very little left behind. My secondary is a 6 gallon (US) carboy and its full up to the neck. I dont see any floaties or sediment in there.

I guess I will be forced to bottle 5 - 10 bottles once the keg is full, which kinda sucks considering how much money I spent on kegs But it is good news that Festa Brew seems kind of unique in that respect, and once I move on, I shouldnt have this problem again.

I dont think I'll sugar carb in the keg, I'd rather use forced CO2, and do some dextrose measuring for the remaining bottles.

Thanks for all the help!

Metric System rocks!

 

[1975brewer]

Unless the only thing you have access to is Festa Brew kits I would suggest you brew some thing that yields 5 US gal. That way you won't feel bad about buying kegs that only hold 5 US gal.

 

[Subdivisions]

I could be wrong as I haven't used the keg I have yet but, I believe that if you naturally carb in a keg, you use less priming sugar then in the bottles? (Someone correct me if I'm wrong please...)

The priming sugar calculation is depending on a certain amount of headspace in the particular container you're putting it in. When bottling you'll have the headspace of 53 bottles to account for assuming that each 12 oz of beer has an equal amount of sugar mixed in. In a keg it's one big bottle with less headspace per ounce therefore you need less sugar to create a certain pressure in the headspace. That's how I understand it.

The general consensus is to use about 2/3 the amount of sugar in a keg if you 'keg condition'

To the OP. An easier way to bottle off those 4 liters is to use 1 liter soda bottles. Use a light soda like gingerale or sprite to avoid flavors getting in the beer

 

[whoaru99]

Use a light soda like gingerale or sprite to avoid flavors getting in the beer

I picked up a 12-pack of 1L sparking water for just such things.

 

[Swab]

Stick with the Festa kits until you are ready to go all grain at home. Festa kits are all grain (as opposed to extract), no dilution kits that produce great beer. Switching to a different sub-par kit to save some bottling time, or to stop from dumping 2l of beer down the drain would be a mistake.

 

[Subdivisions]

I picked up a 12-pack of 1L sparking water for just such things.

Didn't think of that. I know regular water bottles won't hold the pressure

 

[Beer0clock]

Ok Ive been thinking about this since my original post, and today I just transferred my secondary to the keg. I bottled the leftover beer that did not fit in the keg, and as suspected I hate bottling! I needed 5 500ml bottles.

This is the worst of both worlds. I opted for kegging over bottling because it seemed like less screwing around, and more efficient. But now I'm kegging AND bottling, which means I have to clean and sanitize the keg and bottle equipment... I'm not a fan.

Would it be weird for me to put the leftover 2-3 liters of beer into a second keg instead of bottling it? Is there any issues with only filling a keg about 10% full? I suppose it would take more CO2 to purge the oxygen and carbonate, but are there any other downsides?

To get even wierder, what if I mixed 2 beers in one keg? For example if I brewed 2 different Festa Brew kits and put them into 3 kegs (one keg would hold the extra beer from each brew kit). Other than potentially being a wierd tasting swill, is there any real problem with it?

The whole point is avoiding bottling at all costs. Except for pouring the extra beer down the drain, thats just rediculous. I'd rather buy another keg and only fill it partially.

Comments??

 

[BMBC]

Could you keg the remainder and then use a pigtail to transfer it to the main keg when space becomes available?

 

[Swab]

Fill up one 2L bottle (pop) instead.

Star san in a spay bottle (which you should always have around anyway), spray into bottle, siphon 2L into the bottle with a few coopers carbonation drops. Not hard, nor is there any more equipment.

 

[hockeyandbeer]

Hello everyone, I'm in the same situation - usually end up with extra beer and never sure if I should prime the entire keg or just the extra bottles. If I don't prime the keg, what's the best way in determining how much dextrose to add to the bottles? I would stop the siphoning when the keg is full, then prime what's left in the bucket- probably a gallon or less- I work too hard at it to just toss out. Another idea I read somewhere is to hold onto it and toss it in later when the keg level gets drank down a bit. But then wouldn't you lose all the carbonation in the keg when you take the lid off? Seems it might waste a lot of C02? Thanks!!


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[rrhoads]

Please don't throw away beer. Avoid at all costs!
Anyway, What about getting a smaller corney keg(3 gallon?) Less space to fill, purge. I personally enjoy having a few extra bottles around. When a keg kicks I get depressed for a moment, but then realize I have a couple bottles to get me through, and I get a surge of joy again realizing that all is good...lol.

 

[kombat]

A little less, but there will still be a substantial yeast cake and possibly hot/cold break depending on how much effort is made to leave it in the kettle.

Again, just to clarify, these FestaBrew kits are pre-hopped wort kits, not pre-hopped extract. There's no boiling, no hopping, no chilling, no diluting, nothing to do but dump it in a bucket and add yeast. It's 5 full (imperial) gallons of wort, in a sanitized plastic bag, ready to go.

A FestaBrew "brew day" takes 5 minutes, and goes like this:

• Sanitize fermenter, lid, and airlock
• Open bag of wort and pour into fermenter
• Pitch yeast
• Affix lid/airlock to fermenter

That's it, that's all. You can do the whole thing during a commercial break.

 

[BadBeagleBrew]

Virtually no trub with those Festa Brew kits, just a nice compact yeast layer. I had the same problem not knowing the difference between imperial and us gallons. I give a second vote for swing tops. I still do the odd 23 liter batch, I find after keg is filled, depending on sediment I get anywhere from 4 to 10 (450ml) grolsche bottles afterwards. 1/2 Tsp of sugar in each bottle does a decent job of carbing.

 

[jahdub]

Hello everyone, I'm in the same situation - usually end up with extra beer and never sure if I should prime the entire keg or just the extra bottles. If I don't prime the keg, what's the best way in determining how much dextrose to add to the bottles? I would stop the siphoning when the keg is full, then prime what's left in the bucket- probably a gallon or less- I work too hard at it to just toss out. Another idea I read somewhere is to hold onto it and toss it in later when the keg level gets drank down a bit. But then wouldn't you lose all the carbonation in the keg when you take the lid off? Seems it might waste a lot of C02? Thanks!!


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Use a priming sugar calculator. You don't have to put "5 gallons" as the volume. You can use however much you want.

If you're not using priming sugar calculators, then its simple math to extrapolate how much sugar you need.

( y / g ) * s = how much you need

y = how much volume you need to prime
g = how much volume you usually need to prime
s = how much sugar you usually add for 'g' volume.

Ie. You have 1 gallon to prime and usually prime 5 gallons with 112g dextrose

( 1 / 5 ) * 112 = 22.4

22.4 grams of sugar is required to prime 1 gallon, in this case.

 

[Beer0clock]

FYI what I ended up doing was bottling about 2 liters of beer that didnt fit in the keg. I used the sugar formula to figure out how much per bottle, but because of my clumsiness and slippery hands etc, I'm pretty sure I either put in too much or too little to each bottle. I am definitely finished with bottling, ever

Next time I will simply but the extra 2-3 liters into a second keg. Wether that keg is empty, or half full of a different batch of beer, I dont care. I've heard "mongrel kegs" can turn out quite nicely.

**** bottles.

:fro:

 

[whoaru99]

Personally, I wouldn't dirty a keg for 2-3 liters but I guess that's your call.

 

[tdbc2011]

I have purchased two mini keg growlers from my homebrew store for this very reason. They hold 1/2 gallon. So I just prime with 1/10 of the required priming sugar. This is the same growlers sold on deepwoodbrew.com.

I can (and have) used these as regular growlers too.

 

[hockeyandbeer]

Thanks for the replys fellas. I have lots of swing top bottles, so I figured out how much sugar was needed and primed what was left in the bucket to bottle a few litres. The growler keg is a good idea as well, but wouldn't have the room in my kegerator. Overall much easier to keg vs bottling- so much quicker cleaning and sanitizing the keg and beer line instead of all the bottles. Just wondering is it possible to rack from the glass carboy directly to the keg? You could have a small amount of dextrose dissolved into water to add to any bottles after the keg is full.


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[hockeyandbeer]

I've had the same issue. I am kegging these days, and end up with 3 extra litres sometimes. I tried measuring out the sugar and putting it into the individual bottles, but the beer never turns out good. Probably best to mix the sugar into the full bucket, then siphon into the keg and extra bottles.