Corn sugar or force carbonate?

[rpatton]

Hi,
I'm preparing to use kegs for the 1st time, and while there is a huge amount of info here I can't seem to find clear answers or options for a couple of questions:

1) What is the benefit of force carbonating versus using the corn sugar mix, for kegs? Is it just a way to shorter the timeline?

2) How exactly does one cold crash? In my case with an APA I had 2.5 weeks in primary, 6 days dry hopping in secondary and will keg at the 6th day. Do I keg then drop the temp (I have a chest freezer and temp control), how much and for how long? Also is it necessary or is it just for making clear beer (cosmetic)?

Thanks!
Rob

 

[FromZwolle]

1-force carbing will give you a better control about carb levels, and it's much quicker.

2-cold crash is used for clearing the beer, but can also cut out some of the odd flavors associated with the yeast still in suspension.

I've never cold crashed, and am happy with my results. but for a light colored, clearer beer, you may want to.

 

[broadbill]

1) Yes, shorter timeline primarily....although you flirt with overcarbonation with force carbing.

2)cold crash is accomplished by throwing the fermenter into your fridge for a few days. You need to drop the temp of the beer if you are going to force carb, since CO2 dissolves in cold beer much, much better than warm beer. If you are going to naturally prime in a keg, I would not cold crash. I would also keep the keg at room temp so it can carbonate.

Hope this helps.

 

[Walker]

1-force carbing will give you a better control about carb levels, and it's much quicker.

Force carbing will give you more control. I agree on that, but only if you use set-it-and-forget-it method.

And, if you do use set-and-forget, it takes just as long to carb a beer up with a tank of CO2 as it does with some sugar.

 

[merddyn2002]

you have a pretty good grasp on the situation. force carbonation lets you drink it faster, but you haven't given the beer quite as long to mature/"bottle condition". You can drink it faster but it may not peak for a few more weeks.

I'm not to kegging yet because I don't have the room. I'm using 2 liters. I will generally force carbonate 1-2 bottles from a batch and then prime and age the rest. The flavor profile from the force carb bottles compared to the primed bottles is usually quite different.

 

[rpatton]

Thanks for all the info, I think I have the key points now. I'm in favor of waiting longer, it seems to smooth out errors in my process, so I'll go with sugar and no cold crash for now. Though getting the yeast out of suspension is appealing if it reduces the resulting gas... Maybe next time. Thanks!

 

[merddyn2002]

you could always carbonate with yeast and then cold-condition

 

[FromZwolle]

Force carbing will give you more control. I agree on that, but only if you use set-it-and-forget-it method.

And, if you do use set-and-forget, it takes just as long to carb a beer up with a tank of CO2 as it does with some sugar.

i was thinking more along the lines of correcting carb levels. i've naturally carbed in a keg, then found that i used too little sugar and had the option of adjusting with forced.

i'm a set and forget type of force carber. it's generally quicker that natural carbing for me, but only by a few days. i haven't tried the high pressure shake method.

 

[Malintent]

you can fully carbonate your beer with the high-pressure-and-shake method in a matter of hours. Provided it is already serving temperature.

Cold crash overnight.
force carb and shake for a few hours.
Serve.

 

[BrookdaleBrew]

Whatever you do, just make sure you only use about 2.5 ounces of corn sugar to prime in the keg if you go that route.

 

[Malintent]

Why half the amount of sugar in a keg versus a bottle?

 

[SumnerH]

Why half the amount of sugar in a keg versus a bottle?

You need less because a) there's less headspace in a keg than 50 bottles and b) Normally you put 12 PSI or whatever in to seal the lid, so you're not starting from scratch.

I normally do 3oz of sugar, which is leaves the beer very slightly undercarbed but it's a lot easier to hook up slightly undercarbed beer and let the CO2 finish carbing it than it is to deal with bleeding off overcarbed pressure.

 

[Malintent]

Not sure I am understanding the point of naturally carbonating in a keg then. Is there a difference in the bubbles themselves? the texture, or taste?

 

[Walker]

Not sure I am understanding the point of naturally carbonating in a keg then. Is there a difference in the bubbles themselves? the texture, or taste?

Some people claim that they can tell a difference. I personally can't.

I have been priming with sugar lately for two reasons:
(1) I don't have room in the kegerator for more than 2 kegs, so I prime new batches with sugar while serving the "active" kegs.
(2) I save CO2 in my tank by letting the yeast carb the beer and then just use the tank to serve.

 

[jangelj]

You need less because a) there's less headspace in a keg than 50 bottles and b) Normally you put 12 PSI or whatever in to seal the lid, so you're not starting from scratch.

I normally do 3oz of sugar, which is leaves the beer very slightly undercarbed but it's a lot easier to hook up slightly undercarbed beer and let the CO2 finish carbing it than it is to deal with bleeding off overcarbed pressure.

I'm not at home right now to measure this myself, but can someone give me a rough idea in CUPS how much 3 ozs of corn sugar is? I'm guessing it's between 1/2 and 1 cup.

 

[mrk305]

you can fully carbonate your beer with the high-pressure-and-shake method in a matter of hours. Provided it is already serving temperature.

Cold crash overnight.
force carb and shake for a few hours.
Serve.

I usually just shake for about 5 minutes. I think after a few hours my legs would get soar.

 

[bhamade]

I'm not at home right now to measure this myself, but can someone give me a rough idea in CUPS how much 3 ozs of corn sugar is? I'm guessing it's between 1/2 and 1 cup.

Google is your friend. Go to google and type in 3 ounces to cups.

 

[Walker]

Google is your friend. Go to google and type in 3 ounces to cups.

That's only going to give you an equivalence for FLUID (volume) ounces.

3oz of lead and 3oz of sugar are not going to take up the same volume.

 

[bhamade]

That's only going to give you an equivalence for FLUID (volume) ounces.

3oz of lead and 3oz of sugar are not going to take up the same volume.

You make a valid point. My bad sir.

 

[SumnerH]

I'm not at home right now to measure this myself, but can someone give me a rough idea in CUPS how much 3 ozs of corn sugar is? I'm guessing it's between 1/2 and 1 cup.

It's more like between 1/3 and 3/4 cups.

It's tough to get much more accurate than that, because the volume of the corn sugar is going to vary based on how finely the corn sugar is ground, how much it's settled, humidity, etc. There was a thread on another board a while back where people weighed 3/4 c. of corn sugar and got results from about 3.6oz to 5oz--the latter is about 40% higher than the former. Risking a 40% variance in carb level isn't a great idea.

You really want to go by weight when measuring it, or buy pre-weighed amounts that are close to the target weight and split by volume--e.g. using 60% by volume of a 5oz pack may not get you exactly 3oz, but it'll be pretty darned close.

 

[SumnerH]

Oh, if you don't have a scale:

1oz of corn sugar in 1 cup of water should read 1.037 with your hydrometer.

With some patience, you could work it out that way.

 

[Mischief_Brewing]

And, if you do use set-and-forget, it takes just as long to carb a beer up with a tank of CO2 as it does with some sugar.

I beg to differ on this one... Some high-gravity beers can take much longer to naturally carb. I'm pretty sure all beers take the same amount of time on the set-it-and-forget-it method...

 

[Walker]

good point.

I never make anything that I consider "high gravity" (almost everything is between 1.050 and 1.060 for me), so I have no experience there.

 

[SumnerH]

I beg to differ on this one... Some high-gravity beers can take much longer to naturally carb. I'm pretty sure all beers take the same amount of time on the set-it-and-forget-it method...

Even most standard grav beers takes almost 2 weeks to carb naturally; by the time you allow it to ferment out fully before getting it into the fridge and chilled, you're at least at the 2 week mark. Set-and-forget cuts that in half.

I have 3 kegs on tap; they don't go all that quickly. So when I fill a new keg, I prime it and let it carb.

The high gravity stuff I usually bottle instead of kegging, both to let them age varying lengths of time (trying a BDSA, barleywine, RIS, etc every few months for years lets you see how it ages) and because I just don't want that many pints of a 12% barleywine.

 

[Walker]

Even most standard grav beers takes almost 2 weeks to carb naturally; by the time you allow it to ferment out fully before getting it into the fridge and chilled, you're at least at the 2 week mark. Set-and-forget cuts that in half.

Set-n-forget @ 10-12 psi takes about 2 weeks to get the proper carb level no a keg for me. It's carbed enough to drink after about 8 or 9 days, but doesn't get to the proper level until about 2 weeks have passed.

 

[Mischief_Brewing]

Set-n-forget @ 10-12 psi takes about 2 weeks to get the proper carb level no a keg for me. It's carbed enough to drink after about 8 or 9 days, but doesn't get to the proper level until about 2 weeks have passed.

2-weeks in the keg vs. a month and a half for my last big beer (12% old ale). I do all of my bottling off of kegs now anyway...