Copper and beer

[scattleberry]

Just gone done brewing my first all grain batch, and used my new home-made immersion wort chiller (30 feet for the brewpot, 20 feet for an ice bucket; my tap water is really warm). After 30 minutes the wort was cool, and when I pulled the chiller it was bright shiny copper color, as opposed to the browner oxidized color it had been before. Suspecting something was wrong, I tasted the wort, and sure enough, it tasted very strongly of copper. I imagine the batch is a total loss.

What did I do wrong? I'm assuming the pH of the wort was too low, and so it dissolved the copper on the wort chiller. How can I avoid this in the future??

 

[Boston]

Don't dump it! Normal chemical reaction....everything is fine

 

[david_42]

Don't dump the batch! The yeast will use some of the copper and much of the rest will bind to various proteins and drop out.

It's quite normal, wort will "clean" your chiller. Just don't ever let the chiller get green.

 

[DAAB]

Originaly a large amount of brewing equipment was made from copper, particular the boiler (otherwise known as a copper for obvious reasons). The copper taste was probably phsycological after seeing the transformation of the chiller. The amount of copper lost to the wort is miniscule...infact what does copper taste like?

 

[Pumbaa]

wort is acidic like and they said dont worry

infact what does copper taste like?

You neve sucked on a penny?

 

[Cap'n Jewbeard]

Copper sort of tastes like blood...? so I'm told...?

 

[jcarson83]

Don't dump the batch! The yeast will use some of the copper and much of the rest will bind to various proteins and drop out.

It's quite normal, wort will "clean" your chiller. Just don't ever let the chiller get green.

Sounds like david knows what he's talking about. I soak my chiller in star san for about 30min before I chill (just because its the last thing to go in and I have time) and it seems to do the same thing. I assume its because that stuff is a mild acid.

 

[Musthavbeer]

jcarson, would you please post your mirror pond recipie? As to copper, mininmum daily requirements are 2 mg, and there have been many posts concerning this. Metallurgists state there is no problem. I built a copper boil kettle to speed things along and I taste no difference from my stainless batches. I can bring my wort to a boil in half the time with no stirring.

 

[Exo]

Don't worry about it dood! The folks at my favorite brewery don't sweat it and you know, their beer is AWESOME!:

 

[D*Bo]

They usually recommend cleaning the coppper before the first use, in warm vinagar.
The wort just did this for you. Let it ferment out and see how it tastes.
As long as you clean it with tap water after each use you sould be fine and shouldn't have this happen again.

As far as sanitizing it, all it requires is being droppped in the kettle for the last 10 min of the boil.

 

[jcarson83]

jcarson, would you please post your mirror pond recipie? As to copper, mininmum daily requirements are 2 mg, and there have been many posts concerning this. Metallurgists state there is no problem. I built a copper boil kettle to speed things along and I taste no difference from my stainless batches. I can bring my wort to a boil in half the time with no stirring.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=10355&highlight=mirror+pond

 

[WarStreetBrewer]

They usually recommend cleaning the coppper before the first use, in warm vinagar.
The wort just did this for you. Let it ferment out and see how it tastes.
As long as you clean it with tap water after each use you sould be fine and shouldn't have this happen again.

As far as sanitizing it, all it requires is being droppped in the kettle for the last 10 min of the boil.

I was wondering this about my new counter flow chiller. I haven't used it yet. How should I clean the inside of the copper? I figure I'll clean it once and then keep up with it with each use and shouldn't have to worry about it after that.
What is a good caustic I can use for this, or could I just sanitize it and use it? I'm not sure how clean soft copper tube is right out of the store.

 

[BeerLuvnGrl]

i always just clean mine really good after i use it.. sanitize it then put it away.. then i just drop it in with about 5-10 mins left in the boil....we have never had any problems..

i agree with the penny theory.. copper just is like that!

 

[WarStreetBrewer]

i always just clean mine really good after i use it.. sanitize it then put it away.. then i just drop it in with about 5-10 mins left in the boil....we have never had any problems..

i agree with the penny theory.. copper just is like that!

Well, see the thing is that it's not an immersion chiller. I'm dealing with the inside of the copper, not the outside.

I'm concerned because I don't want my wort picking up anything that might be left over from the manufacturing of the copper pipe and I also don't want to end up in the ER. What's a reasonable cleaner to use?

 

[BeerLuvnGrl]

oh we immerse ours in our wort to chill it..

im not sure about this one!

 

[Pumbaa]

Well, see the thing is that it's not an immersion chiller. I'm dealing with the inside of the copper, not the outside.

I'm concerned because I don't want my wort picking up anything that might be left over from the manufacturing of the copper pipe and I also don't want to end up in the ER. What's a reasonable cleaner to use?

Starsan will work well . . . plus it makes it nice and shiney just like your wort did
What I usually do is rinse it out well after I'm doen with it then befor I use it I run siphon some Starsan through it and let it drain and dry for a bit

Honestly I wouldnt worry about copper to much, they have been making cookware out of it for YEARS, plus I you live in a older house I bet if ya looked most your water pipes are copper

basicly . . . .
RDWHAHB

 

[disaffected]

Water pipes in most parts of the country are copper. It is the most commonly used material for home plumbing in the US, and is required by code in most areas.

 

[God Emporer BillyBrew]

Copper sort of tastes like blood...? so I'm told...?

Never tried that either.

 

[olllllo]

Water pipes in most parts of the country are copper. It is the most commonly used material for home plumbing in the US, and is required by code in most areas.

Older homes may use lead and that is why you are supposed to use cold water for cooking and boiling.

 

[WarStreetBrewer]

Starsan will work well . . . plus it makes it nice and shiney just like your wort did
What I usually do is rinse it out well after I'm doen with it then befor I use it I run siphon some Starsan through it and let it drain and dry for a bit

Honestly I wouldnt worry about copper to much, they have been making cookware out of it for YEARS, plus I you live in a older house I bet if ya looked most your water pipes are copper

basicly . . . .
RDWHAHB

Yeah, I'm not so much worried about that fact that it's copper.. most of my plumbing is copper.. and I knowlingly built the wort chiller out of copper..

I just know that when I bought the copper pipe and I was handling it while building the wort chiller, it left quite a bit of dirt on my hands. I can only assume this was from just sitting around in a warehouse.. but I need to know that there isn't any residue on the inside of the pipe from the manufacturing process. I really doubt that sanitizer is going to clean something like that if there is, in fact, something there.

Does anyone here use any sort of caustic commercial grade cleaner on their kettles or anything? I understand that several brews in a kettle can leave a residue that can be tough to clean. I can't quite scrub the inside of the pipe.. that's really the problem.

 

[Exo]

Do a full boil with just water and run it through. Then follow it up with Star-San. Let it sit for 20min with Star-San sitting in the tubes then clear it with water.

 

[D*Bo]

I was concerned about this too with my CFC.

I ended up putting a funnel with a short tube on the inlet and poured warm vinigar thru it a bunch of times, then flipped it over and ran it thru the other way to make sure it had run across the entire surface of the interior of the tubing. Then ran cold water thru it on full blast (adapter on the faucet to a piece of tubing) for a miniute or two. Tilted it around it's center axis to run all the water out. Made up some Idopher and poured it thru the funnel untill it was running thru in a solid stream and capped the output. Pulled the funnel and capped the input.

The interior was nice and shiny, didn't have that tarnished copper smell, and the coating that was on the inside was gone. After the cold water rinse I couldn't smell any vinagar.

The vinagar will pick up a slight greenish-blue color.

 

[WarStreetBrewer]

Ahh, vinegar. I'll do that.. and I gather keeping it full of sanitizer is a good idea.

Thanks for all the responses everyone.

 

[casebrew]

Is Star-San the phosphoric acid stuff? One of the sanitizers is. Phosphoric acid is an excellent metal etch- almost universal in lime removers and and rust removers and metal etchers for painters. I just brewed my first batch since March, boy was my immersion cooler green! So I wiped it down with Lime Away Clone, and hosed it off. Instant copper shine! Without worries of too much copper for the yeast.