Conan Yeast Experiences

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LateraLex said:
Would you change your mind if each 5 gallon batch needed another 7oz of dry hop? :) I take your point though, I think I should let it ride and see what happens.
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If each of your batches "need" 7oz of dry hopping to make them drinkable, then you have other problems! At that point I'm not thinking "dump!" but rather "never brew beer again"! ;)
 
dcp27 said:
I've done 4 beers now with conan that a friend built up and gave me some of

APA (1L starter from washed yeast starter): 1.054 to 1.012 mash @153F (78% attenuation)
American Wheat (1 cup slurry from APA): 1.054 to 1.010 mash @153F (81%)
IIPA (2 cups slurry from APA): 1.085 to 1.013 mash @148F (85%)
Milk Stout (1 cup slurry from Am wheat): 1.065 to 1.02 mash @154F (80% if remove lactose)

most of fermentation was done at 58-60F ambient, which worked out to about 62-65F internal. its certainly a lil fruitier & hazier than chico. none of them have reached great clarity even after a few weeks in the keezer. the aforementioned friend recently split an IPA 3-ways (chico, conan, w34/70) and the chico one was the best, so i'm not sure how much more i'll play around with conan at the moment.
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Good post, thanks.
 
Purchased some ECY29 a couple weeks ago and make a starter, pitched into a Heady Clone Recipe which came out at 1.074. Right now it's at 1.021 and I'm hoping to take it down a few more points. Fermentation was at 63 degrees. Do I kick up the temperature to 70 or so and wait a fee more days? Or is there some other trick to get this yeast to get down closer to my target FG?
 
geoffey said:
Purchased some ECY29 a couple weeks ago and make a starter, pitched into a Heady Clone Recipe which came out at 1.074. Right now it's at 1.021 and I'm hoping to take it down a few more points. Fermentation was at 63 degrees. Do I kick up the temperature to 70 or so and wait a fee more days? Or is there some other trick to get this yeast to get down closer to my target FG?
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I like 70-72* for Conan. It will work in the 64-66* range but i have found much better attenuation at 72*
 
geoffey said:
Purchased some ECY29 a couple weeks ago and make a starter, pitched into a Heady Clone Recipe which came out at 1.074. Right now it's at 1.021 and I'm hoping to take it down a few more points. Fermentation was at 63 degrees. Do I kick up the temperature to 70 or so and wait a fee more days? Or is there some other trick to get this yeast to get down closer to my target FG?
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In the past I had used Conan at 68f, my most recent batch I fermented at 63f for 5 days then let it free rise to 70f to finish out. Fermentation is done but I havent taken a reading yet. I'll let you know if this method worked to finish attenuation but in the meantime it wouldnt hurt to warm yours up a little.

What did you mash at?
 
Coff said:
In the past I had used Conan at 68f, my most recent batch I fermented at 63f for 5 days then let it free rise to 70f to finish out. Fermentation is done but I havent taken a reading yet. I'll let you know if this method worked to finish attenuation but in the meantime it wouldnt hurt to warm yours up a little. What did you mash at?
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I have let it rise to ambient temp for now (69-70). I mashed at 150. Won't be able to check it again till Sunday night.
 
Do you get less peach and apricot flavor when fermenting cooler?
 
geoffey said:
I have let it rise to ambient temp for now (69-70). I mashed at 150. Won't be able to check it again till Sunday night.
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Funny, bc mine is currently at 1.021 as well 11days in (OG 1.056 mash 152). First time with the ECY culture but I've used my own cultured dregs for the last year and hit 80% att every time.

Mine was already warm, so I'll just give it another week and see where it's at.
 
Coff said:
Funny, bc mine is currently at 1.021 as well 11days in (OG 1.056 mash 152). First time with the ECY culture but I've used my own cultured dregs for the last year and hit 80% att every time. Mine was already warm, so I'll just give it another week and see where it's at.
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I don't want pass judgement where it isn't warranted, but this seems to be a trend based in other responses to this thread re: ECY 29. Starting to feel like it might be one of the older generations that people have mentioned doesn't attenuate as well.
 
HopRodGR said:
I don't want pass judgement where it isn't warranted, but this seems to be a trend based in other responses to this thread re: ECY 29. Starting to feel like it might be one of the older generations that people have mentioned doesn't attenuate as well.
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I've been reading the same thing recently. I guess I will be going back to my cultured dregs generation then. I am going to pitch US-05 and see if it helps.

I actually know when Al cultured the dregs originally, I would think thats the same culture he is distributing now but cant confirm that. I emailed him on 12/19/12, after I fermented my first batch with Conan that I cultured from 2 cans a month prior. I told him about it and asked if I could send him some slurry for analysis and to confirm it was S. Cerevisae (this was back when the rumor was Heady was canned with a Lager strain).

He said he had a can in his fridge and would culture it up himself. Vegan confirmed that the generation I had was old, like G14 or something like that, according to him this was before Kimmich was retiring it at G10. My guess is the culture Al has is an older generation then even the one I have.

Not solid evidence, but might give some credence to your claim, and especially since alot of people have stalling batches.
 
Coff said:
I've been reading the same thing recently. I guess I will be going back to my cultured dregs generation then. I am going to pitch US-05 and see if it helps. I actually know when Al cultured the dregs originally, I would think thats the same culture he is distributing now but cant confirm that. I emailed him on 12/19/12, after I fermented my first batch with Conan that I cultured from 2 cans a month prior. I told him about it and asked if I could send him some slurry for analysis and to confirm it was S. Cerevisae (this was back when the rumor was Heady was canned with a Lager strain). He said he had a can in his fridge and would culture it up himself. Vegan confirmed that the generation I had was old, like G14 or something like that, according to him this was before Kimmich was retiring it at G10. My guess is the culture Al has is an older generation then even the one I have. Not solid evidence, but might give some credence to your claim, and especially since alot of people have stalling batches.
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Wow, that would make sense. After mine stalled I added some of the BSG Handcraft (fka Crosby & Baker) Amalyse Enzyme, pitched some more Conan slurry that I held back from a starter, and got it down to 1.012. If you have access to the enzyme, it's pretty cheap and seemed to do the trick.

I definitely want to give Conan another shot, but I think I will go for the YeastGeek version since it's an earlier generation from what I've read (might have even been in this thread).
 
HopRodGR said:
Wow, that would make sense. After mine stalled I added some of the BSG Handcraft (fka Crosby & Baker) Amalyse Enzyme, pitched some more Conan slurry that I held back from a starter, and got it down to 1.012. If you have access to the enzyme, it's pretty cheap and seemed to do the trick.

I definitely want to give Conan another shot, but I think I will go for the YeastGeek version since it's an earlier generation from what I've read (might have even been in this thread).
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Interesting, I actually already pitched some re-hydrated US-05 so I will see how that goes after a few days. If not I may try Amalyse.
 
HopRodGR said:
I don't want pass judgement where it isn't warranted, but this seems to be a trend based in other responses to this thread re: ECY 29. Starting to feel like it might be one of the older generations that people have mentioned doesn't attenuate as well.
Click to expand...

Everything I've read shows generation one around 85% attenuation, and by 5 or 6 at 82% and 79% at 10. He is saying he got 62.5% which to me means either his beer isn't done fermenting or there is 25% crystal malts with unrealistic expectations or some other problem.
 
Beezer94 said:
Everything I've read shows generation one around 85% attenuation, and by 5 or 6 at 82% and 79% at 10. He is saying he got 62.5% which to me means either his beer isn't done fermenting or there is 25% crystal malts with unrealistic expectations or some other problem.
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My beer was around 90% base malt, 7% simple sugar and 3% light crystal, 148 degree mash and mine stalled at 73%. It was a good size pitch off a stir plate with 1 minute of pure O2 with a stone, and krausen had formed within 10 hours. I'm not above it still being something I did, but it sure seems like this specific culture is displaying all the signs of being an older generation.
 
Long time no see. Now that I'm not in the yeast stuff anymore, I guess I can say that by my estimates, ECY has always been 15+ gen. Everything that was said or written about it since he released it has been consistent with very late generation conan. The ECY in general never had the strong attenuation in the higher 80s that was possible.
 
theveganbrewer said:
Long time no see. Now that I'm not in the yeast stuff anymore, I guess I can say that by my estimates, ECY has always been 15+ gen. Everything that was said or written about it since he released it has been consistent with very late generation conan. The ECY in general never had the strong attenuation in the higher 80s that was possible.
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Hey stranger. Welcome back!
 
theveganbrewer said:
Long time no see. Now that I'm not in the yeast stuff anymore, I guess I can say that by my estimates, ECY has always been 15+ gen. Everything that was said or written about it since he released it has been consistent with very late generation conan. The ECY in general never had the strong attenuation in the higher 80s that was possible.
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I don't know if you still have any inside track on the idea, but there's been chatter about Alchemist getting away from this yeast. Any thoughts, rumors, words on the wind? There's even some reports about HT tasting dramatically different these days.
 
BeerGrylls said:
I don't know if you still have any inside track on the idea, but there's been chatter about Alchemist getting away from this yeast. Any thoughts, rumors, words on the wind? There's even some reports about HT tasting dramatically different these days.
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@DangerRoss..thanks! Not brewing, just browsing :)

@BeerGrylls...

Really? That is very interesting. I haven't really any insight on that, but I'd like to think I would be able to tell straight away if I tasted Heady and it was a different yeast.

It did seem to me that John was noticeably either annoyed, worried, or paranoid about the rapid spread of Conan throughout not only the homebrew scene, but also yeast companies and possibly commercial breweries. When I was running Yeast Geek, I had a few large breweries (and many smaller ones) contact me asking for large commercial pitches of the yeast.

For a while there, John was going out of his way to make Conan not seem very important, after basically spending the last few years saying it was the magic behind Heady Topper. Seemed a bit strange to me at his sudden change of tune just about when things were going strongest on the interest about the yeast.

I had conversations about the yeast in great detail before he upgraded his facilities, and not so much afterwards. Something IMHO was clearly going wrong with the yeast in the old setup and he was trying very hard to fix it but failing. Attenuation was becoming worse after each new harvest , not just each generation. So the yeast was going from 88% attenuation in Gen 1A to 80% in Gen 18A, then 87% in Gen1B to 79% Gen1B and so forth. Eventually they had to cut off half the generations to keep the attenuation up above 80%. The cause of this? No idea. Where ever the yeast was being stored perhaps? Maybe it just went on too long? Mishandled at some point? Freezer problems? Too much glycerine? Could be anything.

If the problem wasn't fixed and they weren't able to top crop and get the best yeast and re-bank it, maybe they had to replace it with a new strain that was more controllable. Just my guess. Towards the end of the Spring 2013, the new yeast coming out was very unpredictable. Half would be solid, half would be cloves and low attenuation. I still think he was having troubles with it through April which was when I last had fresh yeast from him I think.
 
theveganbrewer said:
@DangerRoss..thanks! Not brewing, just browsing :) @BeerGrylls... Really? That is very interesting. I haven't really any insight on that, but I'd like to think I would be able to tell straight away if I tasted Heady and it was a different yeast. It did seem to me that John was noticeably either annoyed, worried, or paranoid about the rapid spread of Conan throughout not only the homebrew scene, but also yeast companies and possibly commercial breweries. When I was running Yeast Geek, I had a few large breweries (and many smaller ones) contact me asking for large commercial pitches of the yeast. For a while there, John was going out of his way to make Conan not seem very important, after basically spending the last few years saying it was the magic behind Heady Topper. Seemed a bit strange to me at his sudden change of tune just about when things were going strongest on the interest about the yeast. I had conversations about the yeast in great detail before he upgraded his facilities, and not so much afterwards. Something IMHO was clearly going wrong with the yeast in the old setup and he was trying very hard to fix it but failing. Attenuation was becoming worse after each new harvest , not just each generation. So the yeast was going from 88% attenuation in Gen 1A to 80% in Gen 18A, then 87% in Gen1B to 79% Gen1B and so forth. Eventually they had to cut off half the generations to keep the attenuation up above 80%. The cause of this? No idea. Where ever the yeast was being stored perhaps? Maybe it just went on too long? Mishandled at some point? Freezer problems? Too much glycerine? Could be anything. If the problem wasn't fixed and they weren't able to top crop and get the best yeast and re-bank it, maybe they had to replace it with a new strain that was more controllable. Just my guess. Towards the end of the Spring 2013, the new yeast coming out was very unpredictable. Half would be solid, half would be cloves and low attenuation. I still think he was having troubles with it through April which was when I last had fresh yeast from him I think.
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Very interesting take, so many angles to consider. So after digesting all of this, even though you are no longer running YeastGeek, the source culture for YG001 is still one of the strong performing 4th or 5th generations, correct? I'm done with ECY 29 but I'd love to give YG001 a shot.
 
theveganbrewer said:
@DangerRoss..thanks! Not brewing, just browsing :)

@BeerGrylls...

Really? That is very interesting. I haven't really any insight on that, but I'd like to think I would be able to tell straight away if I tasted Heady and it was a different yeast.

It did seem to me that John was noticeably either annoyed, worried, or paranoid about the rapid spread of Conan throughout not only the homebrew scene, but also yeast companies and possibly commercial breweries. When I was running Yeast Geek, I had a few large breweries (and many smaller ones) contact me asking for large commercial pitches of the yeast.

For a while there, John was going out of his way to make Conan not seem very important, after basically spending the last few years saying it was the magic behind Heady Topper. Seemed a bit strange to me at his sudden change of tune just about when things were going strongest on the interest about the yeast.

I had conversations about the yeast in great detail before he upgraded his facilities, and not so much afterwards. Something IMHO was clearly going wrong with the yeast in the old setup and he was trying very hard to fix it but failing. Attenuation was becoming worse after each new harvest , not just each generation. So the yeast was going from 88% attenuation in Gen 1A to 80% in Gen 18A, then 87% in Gen1B to 79% Gen1B and so forth. Eventually they had to cut off half the generations to keep the attenuation up above 80%. The cause of this? No idea. Where ever the yeast was being stored perhaps? Maybe it just went on too long? Mishandled at some point? Freezer problems? Too much glycerine? Could be anything.

If the problem wasn't fixed and they weren't able to top crop and get the best yeast and re-bank it, maybe they had to replace it with a new strain that was more controllable. Just my guess. Towards the end of the Spring 2013, the new yeast coming out was very unpredictable. Half would be solid, half would be cloves and low attenuation. I still think he was having troubles with it through April which was when I last had fresh yeast from him I think.
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The idea of the yeast became half mythical and half real. It was super unique, and I'm sure part of the allure is that HT is also so difficult to come by for almost everyone in the world. If I were John, I'd want to start to downplay the importance of it before other commercial breweries ended up utilizing it for similar beers.

That's got to be a scary situation when the spirit of this awesome beer you've created is now lo longer consistent. What you say about problems with consistency has also been noticed by quite a few anecdotes I've caught here and other places, as well as my own experiences. I've had cultures from three sources at this point, and they are all different. I've also been hearing a bit about people finding cultures throwing clove/Belgian notes. That's definitely not what one would expect from "Conan" if we can even refer to it that way any more. I'd be happy to wager that there's a long story about this yeast that Kimmich may never tell, and that what we think we know isn't even correct.

A recent issue of BYO magazine has an article on Vermont beers (BYO is Vermont based .. if I remember correctly?) that states that Alchemist isn't using "conan" any longer, and conjectures that they're using something closer to chico in a low temp range, to get some peachy notes. We know how consistent chico is, and also how readily available. Now I wonder if they gave up on conan due to the hassle.

Very interesting stuff, I'm still hoping to catch more about it.

BG
 
BeerGrylls said:
A recent issue of BYO magazine has an article on Vermont beers (BYO is Vermont based .. if I remember correctly?) that states that Alchemist isn't using "conan" any longer, and conjectures that they're using something closer to chico in a low temp range, to get some peachy notes.
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I've noticed that the "conan" yeast I've recently harvested is vastly different than those I cultured back in the springtime (march).

The yeast from the old cans produced as advertised aromas of peach and orange, with some minor belgian-y character. The new stuff is nothing like it... every starter ends up being a diacetyl bomb. I've tried three times now, using yeast from cans produced in different months and still I get diacetyl. Sanitation is not an issue.

Something is seriously up with their yeast...
 
I don't get diacetyl, but I definitely agree that it's not tasting, looking, or performing the same as cultures I used back in December 2012. Aside from taste I notice that my newest can harvested cultures floc out like a rock. The 2012 culture I had made beer that stayed cloudy for the duration of a 5 gallon keg (maybe 4-5 weeks). The newest culture flocked out clear as a bell in the keg after about 10 days...
 
BeerGrylls said:
A recent issue of BYO magazine has an article on Vermont beers (BYO is Vermont based .. if I remember correctly?) that states that Alchemist isn't using "conan" any longer, and conjectures that they're using something closer to chico in a low temp range, to get some peachy notes. We know how consistent chico is, and also how readily available. Now I wonder if they gave up on conan due to the hassle.
Click to expand...

my take: i doubt he would give up on Conan. using chico would make it a different beer.

i believe the BYO's info about "not using Conan" is part purposeful misinformation from John (i.e. trying to get people off the track), and part truth: he got Conan from Greg Noonan years ago. over the years since then, the yeast has evolved/mutated/changed - it's no longer the exact yeast he got from Noonan and he probably doesn't have any of that original Conan banked. so, in a way, he's no longer using Conan: he's using son (or great-great-great-great-etc-grandson) of Conan.

maybe he's so many generations away from the original that he no longer has the same yeast hence the current variability.
 
Beezer94 said:
Everything I've read shows generation one around 85% attenuation, and by 5 or 6 at 82% and 79% at 10. He is saying he got 62.5% which to me means either his beer isn't done fermenting or there is 25% crystal malts with unrealistic expectations or some other problem.
Click to expand...

Its done fermenting, pitched the proper cell count, aerated with a stone etc. Grist was 90% MO, 7% Vienna, 3% C60, mashed at 152. Shouldn't be too much unfermentables in that wort.

Pitched US-05 4 days ago, took a reading last night and its down from 1.021 to 1.014. Good enough for me.
 
I stumbled on this thread over the past few days when I decided to try my hands at harvesting heady topper yeast from some fresh cans. I'm as green as it gets in the yeast game, but I'm glad for that. Maybe the strain isn't what it once was...maybe it's not the same strain at all. All I know is I giggled like a teenage boy seeing his first boob when I noticed signs of fermentation in my 300 mL start. This is exactly what makes homebrewing exciting! Thanks for all the great info guys, I can't wait to plan a brew day with this stuff...whatever strain it is. Cheers!
 
HT Clone: 1.069 -> 1.012 (Mash: 150 for 60 min)
PTY Clone: 1.079 -> 1.014 (Mash: 145 for 75 min)
SMaSH: 1.054 -> 1.014 (Mash: 152 for 60 min)

Yeast was harvested from ~June cans. I built up a starter and then have been using the yeast for a few more beers now. I just build up a starter, then pitch most of it, leaving a little behind, then continue to build up the starter and store the extra. This way I dont have to worry about washing or top cropping yeast that has been stressed by the fermentation process, I'll probably get about 15-20 brews from this one harvest doing it this way.

Every beer I've made has been pretty clear in the primary after 1-2 weeks. Only when I start dry hopping like crazy does it get a little hazy. Both the HT clone and the PTY clone have won awards with the Conan yeast so I highly recommend using this yeast.

I have a split batch of PTY clone going right now, 1 batch with US 05 and 1 batch with Conan. I will report back with fermentation temps and tasting notes.
 
I just got some YeastGeek 001 yesterday. 1L Starter going now. I know this is mostly a Hoppy, IPA yeast. But for my first brew with it will be a Mild Porter. I usually go with PACMAN, so this shouldn't be too far off. I will let you know how that goes in about 4 weeks. Then a stepup for a Citra Hop Burst Pale. That should be great! :D
 
I just ordered Gigayeast's GY054 "Vermont Ale" Conan yeast; my theory is that Conan is just a more prolific bio-converter of hop oils and that's what gives it all those awesome fruity tropical flavors.

I'm planning on experimenting with hop bursting techniques with some new Yakima (and NZ) varieties in a series of SMASH recipes to see what flavors I can coax out of the hops combined with Conan. Amarillo, Belma, Citra, and Nelson Sauvin are planned currently; I'm particularly interested to see if I can produce the elusive strawberry flavors via late additions of Belma and Conan working together in concert.

(A mango / strawberry smoothie beer seems quite possible with Conan + late addition Belma and Citra; heck with some munich malt and that cloudy non-flocculating Conan (early generations) it should even LOOK LIKE a smoothie!)


Adam
 
I got a bottle of slurry. Stepped up in a 400 mL->1200 mL->1750 mL starter for about 300 BN cells.

The starter smelled terrible, belgian and estery, and I was a little concerned based on previous posts about some poor results with the belgian-y smelling yeast.

6 days into a Kern River Citra IPA, 1.071->1.013, started fermentation at 63. Currently at 68. Mashed at 148. Samples so far taste great, with the hoped-for mango tones. No belgian/estery flavors at all. Concern #1 resolved.

I gave it 120 seconds of pure o2. Attenuation seems pretty solid, and the flocculation also looks really good. I'm sill getting some airlock activity, so I think it will attenuate another point or two. This yeast was more vigorous and active than probably any other I've used. Fermentation was underway within 12 hours, and I had more blowoff than I've probably ever had. Concern #2 resolved.

I'm going to give it another 14 days on the cake, then rack to keg and dry hop. I plan on washing the yeast for future use, maybe freezing some.

So if you have a belgian-y smelling batch, keep hope alive.
 
I'm using YG01 for a Heady Topper clone. I Skimmed a thin layer off top at 80 hrs into fermentation and made a 750 ml starter. A few days later I crash cooled to 42 so that Yeast would drop and I could collect for a 4 liter starter.

Here is where it gets interesting. It's one week later and my starter is in the fridge at 42 deg with and an airlock. It's still fermenting! I've never heard of an Ale Yeast fermenting this cold. Perhaps the Conan strain is actually a Lager strain that throws off these peachy flavors at ale fermentation temps. Anyone else have a similar experience?

FYI: This is same yeast I pitched into HT clone that stalled at 1.020 gravity. I think I under pitched as i crashed cooled a 4 liter starter overnight and then decanted to pitch a slurry of 1 pint. The yeast just won't drop until cold and completely fermented. Going to finish fermentation with some US 05.
 
My culture from 2 cans of Heady purchased a month or so ago came out great, definitely had the peachy Heady type profile. Not "Belgiany". Will brew latest BYO clone in coming weeks.
 
Ready2brew said:
Perhaps the Conan strain is actually a Lager strain that throws off these peachy flavors at ale fermentation temps. Anyone else have a similar experience?
Click to expand...

a few months ago, the idea that Conan was a lager strain was floated in another HT thread. the idea was shot down, by a microbiologist/lab geek if i remember correctly.
 

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