How many yeast cells are you at? I was targeting 3 jars of ~100 billion cells each, so I got up to about 300 billion cells and then crashed for two days in the fridge. I divided it up into 3 jars and then topped with boiled/cooled water for storage.
Conan Yeast Experiences
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MTate37
Well-Known Member
I'm honestly not sure. Unknowingly I skipped the first commonly used step of 200 ml or so and started with approx. 475 ml. After four days at 475 ml I added 1 L of fresh wort. That has been going for three days as of today. Based on a chart someone provided a few days back I would be at 330 B cells had I started with the smaller step. Since I skipped that step is it safe to assume I'm under 300 B?
I still haven't entirely gotten my head around the estimation of cells in harvested yeast.
I still haven't entirely gotten my head around the estimation of cells in harvested yeast.
Here's how you estimate. I used yeastcalc.com, but there are others. I think you said you were just shaking. If not, you'd have to change that. So it looks like you are at 70 billion (if I entered everything correctly) so it looks like you'll need a couple more steps to get to 300 billion.
MTate37
Well-Known Member
So if I've done this right, if I decant and add 2 L of fresh wort I should get to 214 B cells (I completed the 3rd step on yeastcalc). If I then do another 2 L step I will end up around 393 total cells. To calculate this I entered 214 in the Initial Cell Count field and did a 1st step of 2 L. Did I do that correctly?
If this is true, I'm thinking I could feasibly break this up into 4 jars with approximately 100 B cells in each. When I'm ready to brew a 1 step starter should get me to enough cells for a 5 gallon batch of 1.07 OG wort. Does this sound right?
Thanks for pointing out this tool. I've always used Mr. Malty to starter size calculation, but this seems a bit more thorough.
If this is true, I'm thinking I could feasibly break this up into 4 jars with approximately 100 B cells in each. When I'm ready to brew a 1 step starter should get me to enough cells for a 5 gallon batch of 1.07 OG wort. Does this sound right?
Thanks for pointing out this tool. I've always used Mr. Malty to starter size calculation, but this seems a bit more thorough.
the problem with calculating how much yeast we have in our starters is that we have no idea how many cells we're starting with. get that number wrong (which i suspect we are) and all future numbers are off.
i've seen that 2 billion starting number before (i forget who first posted it - veganbrewer?) and i still think it's too high. i suspect that the actual initial count is somewhere between 0.5 to 1 billion - when fresh. typical cell counts in bottled beer is 1M/ml. a can of HT is 472 ml, so if you double the standard count you're still below 1B. the fact that we get HT fresh helps with the cell count, the 8% abv doesn't.
anyone here have a hemocytometer?
EDIT: here is vegan's justification for him estimates: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/conan-yeast-experiences-397947/index8.html#post5181739. i still think they're too high, but what do i know.
i've seen that 2 billion starting number before (i forget who first posted it - veganbrewer?) and i still think it's too high. i suspect that the actual initial count is somewhere between 0.5 to 1 billion - when fresh. typical cell counts in bottled beer is 1M/ml. a can of HT is 472 ml, so if you double the standard count you're still below 1B. the fact that we get HT fresh helps with the cell count, the 8% abv doesn't.
anyone here have a hemocytometer?
EDIT: here is vegan's justification for him estimates: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/conan-yeast-experiences-397947/index8.html#post5181739. i still think they're too high, but what do i know.
I didn't run your numbers, but it sounds about right.
The next thing you'll want to research is harvesting from starters. That way you can keep your Conan yeast going for awhile. That's what I'm doing. After trading and giving out several jars, I kept 2 for myself. I'm brewing with it this weekend so I made a starter, but I made one that gave me about 100 billion extra cells so I split it up into two jars - one to pitch into my beer and another to save.
Yeah, it does bother me a bit that we make approximations on approximations, so the I'm sure we could easily be off by 2 or more times what we think we have. Thankfully brewing isn't that exact, so what's a few billion yeast cells between friends?
While it would be great to know more accurate numbers, if you run the numbers on yeastcalc, you will see that starting with 1 or 2 billion cells initially doesn't really change the final result that much. With the 4 steps I did, it goes from 317 to 330 billion cells when I go from 1 to 2 billion cells initially. Hardly enough to worry about.
That link isn't working for me, but I got it from the Heady Topper harvest thread, specifically this post and from his site, but the link is broken now.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
I have a hemocytometer but no fresh heady. If I get any I'll take a reading and let you all know how much is in there appx.
Have you ever confirmed the amount of cells after harvesting Conan and doing the step starters to figure out that the 1 to 2 billion per can is accurate?
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
No, I just recently got my equipment. I will be testing things with my lab partner over the next 10 days or so, ill post what I find.
Very cool. Can't wait to see the results.
MTate37
Well-Known Member
I'm curious too. I've got two more cans I'm going to harvest so it would be nice to have a better idea what I'm working with.
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
My next plan for Conan is a bourbon oaked RIS...
MTate37
Well-Known Member
I've been wanting to get away from kits so I'm thinking I might use Conan for my first recipe. I've got some whole leaf Calypso and Columbus on the way from a trade so I think that will be my starting point.
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I've never used Calypso. I'm betting you're brew will be great.
I love fermenting with Conan. I just kicked a keg of hoppy amber that I fermented with it.
I'm really eager to ferment a stout with it, because I think the fruity character will go great with a chewy stout.
MTate37
Well-Known Member
I hope it turns out great. I've been reading the IPA book so hopefully I've learned enough to put together a decent recipe.
So late yesterday afternoon I decanted and added my Conan to 2 L of fresh wort in a gallon jug. I checked it before bed and it was bubbling away. I also noticed that a little gnat was floating on the surface. I immediately sanitized a skewer and got the little bastard. Apparently it crawled up under my loose foil cap.
When I got up this morning there was approximately .75" of pretty white yeast on the bottom of the jug and it was still bubbling a good bit. This afternoon I saw another gnat on the surface and immediately removed it.
What should I be looking for that would indicate the gnats left some invisible bugs in there? Or should I just throw it out and start fresh?
I drank another can of HT last night, intending to start a second harvest, but in my drunken state I just sanitized the can as best I could, covered it in sanitized foil and out it back in the fridge. Not sure if it is wise to try to start a harvest from that can.
So late yesterday afternoon I decanted and added my Conan to 2 L of fresh wort in a gallon jug. I checked it before bed and it was bubbling away. I also noticed that a little gnat was floating on the surface. I immediately sanitized a skewer and got the little bastard. Apparently it crawled up under my loose foil cap.
When I got up this morning there was approximately .75" of pretty white yeast on the bottom of the jug and it was still bubbling a good bit. This afternoon I saw another gnat on the surface and immediately removed it.
What should I be looking for that would indicate the gnats left some invisible bugs in there? Or should I just throw it out and start fresh?
I drank another can of HT last night, intending to start a second harvest, but in my drunken state I just sanitized the can as best I could, covered it in sanitized foil and out it back in the fridge. Not sure if it is wise to try to start a harvest from that can.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Doubt you will see anything because of the gnats. Might be a little something in the yeast but I wouldn't worry about it.
MTate37
Well-Known Member
I've just started noticing this stratification in the past 24 hours and hope it isn't an issue. I have close to an inch of slurry in a one gallon jug and I would say the top third or so is a bit darker than the rest.
I'm going to cold crash tonight and then decant and add 2L as my final step. Assuming 1B cells were in the can that should leave me with a little under 400B cells to divide up into four jars.
Lakeman
Member
I live in Indiana, which forbids shipments of alcohol into or out of the state. Thus, can't trade for Heady (thanks state of Indiana, for protecting me from myself). I was wondering if anyone has compared Conan with Bell's yeast/Cali V?
That yeast is also aggressive, and also gives some unique tropical fruit tastes to the beers I've brewed with it. Makes an awesome IPA. I'm just wondering if the Conan is so different that it is worth the effort it will take for me to find some.
That yeast is also aggressive, and also gives some unique tropical fruit tastes to the beers I've brewed with it. Makes an awesome IPA. I'm just wondering if the Conan is so different that it is worth the effort it will take for me to find some.
ja09
Well-Known Member
I think mine's actually turning into a loaf of bread! Don't know what happened, but I think this one might be a dumper. It smelled peachy & great while fermenting, but now it's extra milky, the krausen won't fall (even when cold crashing), and it smells like 100% bread.
Anyone else experience this?
MTate37
Well-Known Member
Mine has been milky for the first day or so after a step up but then it has cleared up. I haven't had krausen issues like that either. It does seem that there is now little to no peach aroma and a lot of bready aroma. My steps were .475L > 1 L > 2 L and I will be finishing up tonight with another 2 L step.
I wouldn't really worry about that law. I'm sure lots of states have that law. And with you able to get 3 Floyd's you should be able to find someone to trade with.
If you really didn't want to deal with shipping, I'd give you a portion of my starter if you drive down to Cincy (and bring a good beer
)
ja09
Well-Known Member
Thanks MTate. I'm trying to figure out if I should dump this or not, don't want to ruin all my brewing effort with poopy yeast bread. I also tasted my decanted 1.6L step and it tasted like total bread & slight medicinal/band-aids. Really unpleasant.
Has anyone ever tasted their conan starter?
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I would definitely see it through to the end before deciding if it's a dumper. A large majority of beers that are early in the fermentation stage will smell and taste bad. Give it time, package it, carbonate it properly, taste it, and then make the decision as to the quality of the beer.
Starters pretty much never taste good.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
I've never really had a pleasant smelling conan, it can be clovey, bready, and honestly, it's never peachy in my case and a few other guys I know that harvest it alot say the same. Our noses might not be good, or it could just be the perception that this is a peachy yeast. It is, but doesn't come out till the final beer for some reason, might be something to do with the hops.
If you've got it on the plate, it's oxidized and nasty to begin with, not sure what you are expecting it to taste like, it's not going to taste like good beer. I would be worried about sourness more than anything.
If you've got it on the plate, it's oxidized and nasty to begin with, not sure what you are expecting it to taste like, it's not going to taste like good beer. I would be worried about sourness more than anything.
MTate37
Well-Known Member
You are probably getting the band-aid flavor from oxidation. I shake the hell out of mine since my DIY stir plate is wonky.
I tasted mine, and while it didn't taste good it didn't have any flavors that concern me.
In one of the Conan yeast threads someone mentioned the FG being an indicator of infection. Basically as long as your FG isn't unusually low you are most likely in good shape. The liquid I decanted on Saturday had an FG of 1.01.
Aside from the two gnats I've found floating in the starter I have no worries.
I tasted mine, and while it didn't taste good it didn't have any flavors that concern me.
In one of the Conan yeast threads someone mentioned the FG being an indicator of infection. Basically as long as your FG isn't unusually low you are most likely in good shape. The liquid I decanted on Saturday had an FG of 1.01.
Aside from the two gnats I've found floating in the starter I have no worries.
NathPowe
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Last weekend I tapped an IPA I made with Conan. My first brew with the stuff. It came out really really good - couldn't be happier actually. Got about half my IBU's from an Amarillo 60min addition and the rest from a hopstand with Amarillo, Centennial and Simcoe. Then used those same three in the dry hop. Grain bill was about 50/50 2-row and Maris Otter with 3% Crystal 20L. This beer is really nice - you can taste the contributions from all the different hops and the malt profile holds it all up well. Surprisingly, it's the clearest beer I've ever brewed. Looks commercially filtered - I say surprisingly because I had heard this stuff doesn't always floc well. I was expecting something cloudy.
Anyway, just thought I'd share that my first Conan yeast experience has been a really positive one and I'm really glad I have 3 more cultures in the fridge.
Happy brewing.
Anyway, just thought I'd share that my first Conan yeast experience has been a really positive one and I'm really glad I have 3 more cultures in the fridge.
Happy brewing.
MTate37
Well-Known Member
After reading the IPA book I was thinking about doing something along these lines. Just haven't figured out the hops yet as I still don't have a good enough palate to be able to distinguish different hops.
FATC1TY
Well-Known Member
I just can't get past the clovey, almost saison-ish notes that come from it. I don't know if the last batch I made was fermented too hot, or what...
It's just not the bee's knees like I wanted it to be. I tossed some of it in a blonde and got the same note. No infection as it's sat around for a while, but side by side on tap in the kegerator, the farmhouse IPA I made and the conan DIPA, almost taste identical, save for the body left in the DIPA versus the saison.
Ehhh..
It's just not the bee's knees like I wanted it to be. I tossed some of it in a blonde and got the same note. No infection as it's sat around for a while, but side by side on tap in the kegerator, the farmhouse IPA I made and the conan DIPA, almost taste identical, save for the body left in the DIPA versus the saison.
Ehhh..
I brewed a black IPA and split the batch - 3 gal with Conan and 3 gal with WLP090. They were pitched around 73F and then brought down to 66-67F in a water bath. The WLP090 stopped bubbling this morning about 2.5 days after pitching. The Conan batch is still bubbling 3 days later, but slowly. I assume this is expected based on how fast the WLP090 ferments, correct?
Anyone think I'll see some differences in these?
Anyone think I'll see some differences in these?
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
That's interesting. I've never got anything even close to that kind of flavor/ester profile when I've fermented with it. What temp do you ferment at with it? I ferment Conan at 59-60 myself...
FATC1TY
Well-Known Member
I want to say it was around 67-68... Could have spiked, but I doubt it, wasn't that hot anyways.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
I ferment at 68, it's not the temps. I have had Conan get bad very late gen and give off clove and a little something odd. What attenuation did you get?
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I was suspecting this as well...
I have a new harvest of Conan that I haven't fermented with yet. I'll have to pay attention to see if it's any different than my first harvest. I'm not really sure what generation it is. My first harvest was super clean, so I'm guessing it was an early gen.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
I only mentioned it because I thought what you said seemed familiar. I drank mine and knew it wasn't infected, but it didn't pop and it was a little weird. I trashed that batch of yeast (found out it was 18th gen) and found a newer gen that was back to normal.
What I want to do is see if there is a way to bring back the good yeast, or if once it's gone, every bit of it is underperforming.
Stauffbier
Well-Known Member
I would think even the newest cells in the slurry would be mutated. That's just a guess, though.
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
Probably true.
ja09
Well-Known Member
How did you find out it was the 18th gen?
theveganbrewer
Well-Known Member
From talking with John he had let me know what gen they were on when I got a set of cans.
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