Color way off, 5th brew

[YellowRiver]

So I just brewed my fifth brew. All Extract with steeping grains, recipes from local shop or internet but no online retailer kits.

Brew shop sells LME in Light, Pilsner, Munich and Dark from bulk barrels.

I was trying to make a blond ale but my blonde is a more like a brunette. The recipe called for 6lbs light and 1lb blossom honey. The LME looked dark from the git-go but I was determined.

I have been doing full boils of about 7+ gallon to get a 5 gallon carboy full. This was the first brewday it neither was windy or rainy. It was dark but I wanted to get this brew in before my workweek. I just bottled my previous batch so it was time.

This brewshop has been very helpful, they seem to do good business. So far this year they got about 400bucks of my hard earned money. My first beer wasn't that good, a DankNugget IPA, my Red Ale wasn't really to my taste but my Rye, TerrapinRye-ish, attempts have been really good. Either way I drink them.

So now my questions,
Obviously I need to try a different source for my LME?
I got the wrong LME, especially this time? Most times I got the Pilsner LME, nothing Light about this ones color.
Even the brew calculators show the Pilsner LME to come out a lot lighter then all my brews have been, am I missing something or is this just the way extract brewing goes?
I'm good with supporting local but maybe its time to try the net on a well documented proven recipe?


Sorry for the book, just looking for some sage advice.

 

[WayFrae]

You have more brewing experience than I do but I generally read this forum all the time (probably too much) and I saw a post about LME causing your beer to come out darker than expected. Try using DME instead and see if you have the same problems or maybe even add most of your LME toward the end of your boil as a late addition.

 

[Hello]

My move to all grain was 100% motivated by color. It sounds stupid but we all have our things that we want to control, mine was color.

I made a pale ale that was more like a dirty dirty blonde. I then realized that no matter what LME I have or when I add it, it will always be darker than any pale ale. This could be different for DME, but for me, I was using LME. There is nothing wrong really except that the color wasn't as light. Try telling someone you brewed a pale ale that is a light amber color.

So no, there's nothing wrong with your LME and to my knowledge, light LME is still not the color you would think it would be.

 

[Queequeg]

At what time in the boil did you add the extract?

 

[Homercidal]

LME normally shifts your finished beer darker. It's a result of the processing needed to make the cncentrated extract. DME is better for this. If you are trying to make an extra light style beer I highly recommend using EXTRA LIGHT DME for the base malt.

The full boil is good, and you might consider adding about 1/3 of the extract for the main portion of the boil and then add the other 2/3 with about 10-15 minutes left just to sanitize it.

You should have some extract in the wort to help with the hops, but saving the rest for later will help reduce the amount of carmelization that happens in the kettle.

 

[DocScott]

When did you add the extract? Can you get a SRM reading on the LME from the LHBS?

Boiling the extracts creates "Mailliard Reactions" which darken the color as they occur. The amino acids and sugars in the extract react when heated and create browning or darkening of the wort. To limit this, try adding the majority of the extract at the end of the boil. If you don't mix the extract well, it can also scortch on the bottom of the boil kettle, further caramelizing the sugars and darkening the wort - I don't think this is your issue though)

As someone else stated, dry malt extract comes in a variety of colors including light and extra light and is sometimes more predictable than the liquid extracts.

What steeping grains are you using? This could certainly add to the problem!

 

[ncbrewer]

Most of the extract I've bought comes in an opaque pouch (Williams Brewing) or a can, so you can't see how dark it is. But I bought some from Northern Brewer a while back - theirs comes in milk cartons. Two were the same style (I forget what style), and I could see one was a couple of shades darker than the other. The flavor wasn't affected at all. It might be that you got one that was a little darker than normal. (Probably a function of the age of the extract.)

 

[YellowRiver]

Try to respond to comments

I use all the LME for the whole boil, it started dark, might try the late addition next time but I think it still would have been quite dark. I get the Malliard reaction, just started out with the impression that the full boil would be better, overall. The idea of the late extract additions seems a bit newer in thought.

The Steeping grains were 1/2 lb carapils and 1/2 lb crystal 10L and 1/2 lb honey malt.

Yes its all about the color, I don't really mind what the color is, until I give some away and have to explain what it is supposed to be. "Uh, its a blonde, really, same natural color as your wife, right?" Maybe that will push me into all-grain, too. I didn't want an amber or a copper or I'd a tried to brew one.

Yes I question the age of the extract, also think I'll try the competition, really wouldn't hurt to try anyway, just now sure when I'll throw another blonde into the rotation. This one was supposed to get me stocked up so I could put together a big beer that needed time.

Thanks all for the help.

 

[unionrdr]

Late extract additions will do the trick. But it sounds like the LME you used was at least light LME that gives an amber-orange color,which pale ales usually are. But a blonde should use pilsner or extra light extract. I do pb/pm biab & use 3lbs of plain extra light DME in my hybrid lagers for that golden color.

 

[Hello]

Late extract additions will do the trick. But it sounds like the LME you used was at least light LME that gives an amber-orange color,which pale ales usually are. But a blonde should use pilsner or extra light extract. I do pb/pm biab & use 3lbs of plain extra light DME in my hybrid lagers for that golden color.

I cannot agree. I've added light, the lightest sold, LME at 15 minutes and my pale is still not even close to pale.
Like I had said also, DME may do the trick but LME that starts a lighter shade of amber isn't getting lighter no matter when you add it to the boil.

 

[unionrdr]

It'll be lighter with all or most added at flame out. But with AE,more like 2/3's at flame out will def give a lighter color. But still an amber-orange,like my Sunset Gold pale ale,an AE brew;
[URL=http://s563.photobucket.com/user/unionrdr/media/APA1.jpg.html] [/URL]

 

[Queequeg]

Juts been reading designing great beers and as far as I understand there are three things a foot here;

1)extract both DME and LME is typically darker than the counterpart AG wort. This is because the manufacture process causes more maillard and caramellization reactions.

2)LME suffers from this more because water accelerates the darkening and allows it to continue during storage

3)Extract can be further darkened during the boil.

So using DME and reducing the boil time (adding at 10mins) should make for a lighter beer. Also not all DME are the same colour, even if they are all light or extra light. Different brands can be lighter.

If you want to make a light beer with extract you need to source a good brand of extract that is light in colour and do a minimash to reduce the amount of extract required and hence lighten the beer. Daniels recommend no more than 64% extract, but suggests that light beers might actually be impossible to get right with extract at all. Though at one point he does talking about people using 20%.

Keeping to low gravity beers will also help, because your water to DME ratio will be higher and hence make for a paler beer.

 

[unionrdr]

Here's a pic of my pb/pm biab hybrid lager that shows what Queequeg mentioned. Lighter malts & plain extra light DME.

Here's one of my first,Cooper's OS Lager,AE brew;

And a Burton ale AE I did some time ago that was AE,with a pic of the ingredients;


It just goes to show what late additions of different colored malts can do in various combinations. The hybrid lager used plain extra light DME,the Cooper's used the can & brew enhancer1 & the Burton used what's in the pic for a 6 gallon batch. The plain light DME (all DME's were Munton's) gives more of the amber/orange color. The extra light gave the hybrid lager that gold color. Half the 3lb bags of DME were used in 2.5-3.5 gallon partial boils in a 5G SS kettle. Remaining extracts added at flame out. That's how you get lighter colors,other than the colors of extracts used.