Color change and loss of hop aroma

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

On November 18th I brewed a Juicy Bits clone.
I followed the directions as closely as possible.
Aerated using an aquarium pump.
Controlled fermentation at 68 to 72 degrees F
When I transferred into a clean sanitized keg, I sampled the beer. It was yellow/orange, both hop aroma and flavor were nice.
I pressurized the keg and waited a week.
- Sampling after a week, the beer was not quite carbonated, but tasted and smelled very good. Just flat
- After a week and a half the beer was carbonated, but I noticed it was darker. The flavor and aroma was till good.
- Now, the beer is noticeably darker and the hop aroma and most of the flavor are gone.

Any ideas what caused this change. I was very happy with the beer at first. Now I'm disappointed, especially since I can't think of anything I did to cause this staling/oxidization. I don't think the beer is infected.

Any thoughts?

 

[RM-MN]

On November 18th I brewed a Juicy Bits clone.
I followed the directions as closely as possible.
Aerated using an aquarium pump.
Controlled fermentation at 68 to 72 degrees F
When I transferred into a clean sanitized keg, I sampled the beer. It was yellow/orange, both hop aroma and flavor were nice.
I pressurized the keg and waited a week.
- Sampling after a week, the beer was not quite carbonated, but tasted and smelled very good. Just flat
- After a week and a half the beer was carbonated, but I noticed it was darker. The flavor and aroma was till good.
- Now, the beer is noticeably darker and the hop aroma and most of the flavor are gone.

Any ideas what caused this change. I was very happy with the beer at first. Now I'm disappointed, especially since I can't think of anything I did to cause this staling/oxidization. I don't think the beer is infected.

Any thoughts?

I suspect the darker color is because you had yeast suspended in the beer that was reflecting light and now it has settled out. For the loss of hop aroma and flavor, did you sample it when it was warmer and now have it chilled? Colder temperature will have a profound change in both, muting them drastically. Try pulling a small glass and warming it some to see if the aroma comes back.

 

[Smellyglove]

Oxidation. You need to find out where in your process you're picking it up. If you racking to a keg with the lid of the keg open, that's where you should start. Closed loop transfer.

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

Thanks for the two quick replies guys.

RM-MN,
I cold crashed so the beer was chilled. I'll try letting a bit warm up and see how it goes.

However, old Smellyglove may have nailed my problem.
1. I did rack to the keg with the lid off. (Though I was careful not so splash the beer around)
2. I don't remember purging the keg, that is to say I didn't purge the keg.
I would have to assume then that I forced oxygen into the beer along with CO2. This was my first time kegging and I guess i learned a valuable lesson. I was worried about sanitizing, pressure and leaks, I forgot to purge the damn thing.

As far as closed loop transfer, does this video illustrate what you're talking about?
The video is recommending 1-2 PSI. I ferment in glass. Does that sound right?
Also I have one of those orange caps with the two nipples, but it does not fit properly on my 5 or 6 gallon glass carboys. I thought they were one size fits all, I'll have to shop around I guess.

Thanks again for the tips.

 

[Smellyglove]

Thanks for the two quick replies guys.

RM-MN,
I cold crashed so the beer was chilled. I'll try letting a bit warm up and see how it goes.

However, old Smellyglove may have nailed my problem.
1. I did rack to the keg with the lid off. (Though I was careful not so splash the beer around)
2. I don't remember purging the keg, that is to say I didn't purge the keg.
I would have to assume then that I forced oxygen into the beer along with CO2. This was my first time kegging and I guess i learned a valuable lesson. I was worried about sanitizing, pressure and leaks, I forgot to purge the damn thing.

As far as closed loop transfer, does this video illustrate what you're talking about?
The video is recommending 1-2 PSI. I ferment in glass. Does that sound right?
Also I have one of those orange caps with the two nipples, but it does not fit properly on my 5 or 6 gallon glass carboys. I thought they were one size fits all, I'll have to shop around I guess.

Thanks again for the tips.

You didn't quote me so I didn't answer until now as I just stumbled upon this thread with unread posts.

No, that's not how I'd do it, at all. I stopped watching the video at 4:40, when he removed the lid. The first error I saw was that the keg wasn't filled 100% with sanitizer. I wouldn't recommend that video to anyone.

Here's how I do it:

Fill a keg to the brim with sanitizer, push it out. Either into another keg so you can reuse it in that keg, or into a bucket, or down the drain, whatever. But NEVER open the lid after this point.

You now need two separate hoses. One with a gas-ball lock on its end, and one with a beer-out ball-lock on its end. Remove airlock, stick the hose end with the gas-ball lock attached in the other end into it.

Then, you need a spigot on your fermentor. Attach the other hose to the spigot. This hose should have threaded female FFL part in the hose-end, so you need a threaded ball lock as well. Don't attach the beer-out hose to the ball lock just yet, but almost. Open spigot on the fermenter, let a decilitre flow down the drain, elevate the hose so the flow stops, attach the ball lock so the entire hose is full of beer.

Connect both ball locks to the keg at the same time. Use gravity to feed. Make sure there's almost no pressure in the keg, or the lid on the fermentor might pop.

This way the fermentor has "no" o2 in it, and the hose is also purged.

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

You didn't quote me so I didn't answer until now as I just stumbled upon this thread with unread posts.

No, that's not how I'd do it, at all. I stopped watching the video at 4:40, when he removed the lid. The first error I saw was that the keg wasn't filled 100% with sanitizer. I wouldn't recommend that video to anyone.

Here's how I do it:

Fill a keg to the brim with sanitizer, push it out. Either into another keg so you can reuse it in that keg, or into a bucket, or down the drain, whatever. But NEVER open the lid after this point.

You now need two separate hoses. One with a gas-ball lock on its end, and one with a beer-out ball-lock on its end. Remove airlock, stick the hose end with the gas-ball lock attached in the other end into it.

Then, you need a spigot on your fermentor. Attach the other hose to the spigot. This hose should have threaded female FFL part in the hose-end, so you need a threaded ball lock as well. Don't attach the beer-out hose to the ball lock just yet, but almost. Open spigot on the fermenter, let a decilitre flow down the drain, elevate the hose so the flow stops, attach the ball lock so the entire hose is full of beer.

Connect both ball locks to the keg at the same time. Use gravity to feed. Make sure there's almost no pressure in the keg, or the lid on the fermentor might pop.

This way the fermentor has "no" o2 in it, and the hose is also purged.

SmellyGlove,

Thanks for the reply.

The keg is sanitized, then the sanitizer is pushed out with CO2. So it's clean and purged....got that part. Makes sense.

The next part I've read a dozen times and I'm confused.....
When you say I need a spigot on my fermentor, are you talking about a plastic bucket with a spigot at or near the bottom? If so, then I get it.
But, I'm using a glass carboy. The only way I can see to get beer flowing would be to use my auto-siphon and connect that to the beer out ball lock. I can't see a way to make that happen without exposing the fermentor to air. That would break the break the closed loop.
Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Wolf

 

[Smellyglove]

SmellyGlove,

Thanks for the reply.

The keg is sanitized, then the sanitizer is pushed out with CO2. So it's clean and purged....got that part. Makes sense.

The next part I've read a dozen times and I'm confused.....
When you say I need a spigot on my fermentor, are you talking about a plastic bucket with a spigot at or near the bottom? If so, then I get it.
But, I'm using a glass carboy. The only way I can see to get beer flowing would be to use my auto-siphon and connect that to the beer out ball lock. I can't see a way to make that happen without exposing the fermentor to air. That would break the break the closed loop.
Am I missing something?

Thanks,
Wolf

Aha. You can get these caps with two holes in them, one for the siphon, and the other for co2.

 

[whovous]

You didn't quote me so I didn't answer until now as I just stumbled upon this thread with unread posts.

No, that's not how I'd do it, at all. I stopped watching the video at 4:40, when he removed the lid. The first error I saw was that the keg wasn't filled 100% with sanitizer. I wouldn't recommend that video to anyone.

Here's how I do it:

Fill a keg to the brim with sanitizer, push it out. Either into another keg so you can reuse it in that keg, or into a bucket, or down the drain, whatever. But NEVER open the lid after this point.

You now need two separate hoses. One with a gas-ball lock on its end, and one with a beer-out ball-lock on its end. Remove airlock, stick the hose end with the gas-ball lock attached in the other end into it.

Then, you need a spigot on your fermentor. Attach the other hose to the spigot. This hose should have threaded female FFL part in the hose-end, so you need a threaded ball lock as well. Don't attach the beer-out hose to the ball lock just yet, but almost. Open spigot on the fermenter, let a decilitre flow down the drain, elevate the hose so the flow stops, attach the ball lock so the entire hose is full of beer.

Connect both ball locks to the keg at the same time. Use gravity to feed. Make sure there's almost no pressure in the keg, or the lid on the fermentor might pop.

This way the fermentor has "no" o2 in it, and the hose is also purged.

SmellyGlove,

I am in a similar position to WolfgangVonFrankenStein. My very first keg is about to kick, and when I do my next one I want the transfer to be as oxygen free as I can make it. I am trying both to visualize what you describe and to adapt it to my situation. The major difference is that I have a Catalyst fermenter instead of a carboy. I can drain the fermenter either with a funnel screwed into where the Mason jar normally goes, or via a sample port mounted a little bit higher.

I am trying to visualize the hoses you describe. One has a gas ball lock on one end and the other has a beer out ball lock at one end. But what about the other ends? Are they simply bare tubes? I am going to assume the answer is yes for my next questions. I've filled and purged my keg, and I won't open it again until it kicks. Do I simply hold the bare end of the beer tube over one my fermenter's exit ports and let gravity do its' thing? I think I can visualize it working that way.

But even if I have that right, the gas line has me confused. My Catalyst is topped by a gasketed black plastic lid that may be two feet in diameter. There is a hole the size of a fair sized cork in the center of it. A hole in that cork admits a blow-off tube (my preference) or an airlock. Do I pull out the cork and put in the bare end of the gas line? That is going to let some CO2 out of my fermenter, and it is also going to let some air in around the gas line line. Probably not a lot, but definitely not airtight. Certainly far less than my method on my single keg so far. That was to purge a keg, but then remove the lid and drop in a line from fermenter to bottom of the keg, open the valve, and remove the cork.

About attaching the gas line to the top of my target keg: Is the idea that there is some residual pressure in this keg that is going to vent into the top of my fermenter and provide a little more of a CO2 blanket there?

I want to understand this process as fully as possible before adapting it to my situation. I have at least a week before the brew in my fermenter will be ready to keg and I want to use that time making sure I understand what I am doing here.

Thanks for the advice.

 

[WolfgangVonFrankenStein]

Aha. You can get these caps with two holes in them, one for the siphon, and the other for co2.

I think I got it locked in now. Can't wait to give it a try.

Thanks again!

 

[Smellyglove]

SmellyGlove,

I am in a similar position to WolfgangVonFrankenStein. My very first keg is about to kick, and when I do my next one I want the transfer to be as oxygen free as I can make it. I am trying both to visualize what you describe and to adapt it to my situation. The major difference is that I have a Catalyst fermenter instead of a carboy. I can drain the fermenter either with a funnel screwed into where the Mason jar normally goes, or via a sample port mounted a little bit higher.

I am trying to visualize the hoses you describe. One has a gas ball lock on one end and the other has a beer out ball lock at one end. But what about the other ends? Are they simply bare tubes? I am going to assume the answer is yes for my next questions. I've filled and purged my keg, and I won't open it again until it kicks. Do I simply hold the bare end of the beer tube over one my fermenter's exit ports and let gravity do its' thing? I think I can visualize it working that way.

But even if I have that right, the gas line has me confused. My Catalyst is topped by a gasketed black plastic lid that may be two feet in diameter. There is a hole the size of a fair sized cork in the center of it. A hole in that cork admits a blow-off tube (my preference) or an airlock. Do I pull out the cork and put in the bare end of the gas line? That is going to let some CO2 out of my fermenter, and it is also going to let some air in around the gas line line. Probably not a lot, but definitely not airtight. Certainly far less than my method on my single keg so far. That was to purge a keg, but then remove the lid and drop in a line from fermenter to bottom of the keg, open the valve, and remove the cork.

About attaching the gas line to the top of my target keg: Is the idea that there is some residual pressure in this keg that is going to vent into the top of my fermenter and provide a little more of a CO2 blanket there?

I want to understand this process as fully as possible before adapting it to my situation. I have at least a week before the brew in my fermenter will be ready to keg and I want to use that time making sure I understand what I am doing here.

Thanks for the advice.

Yes bare ends. I attatch the beer-hose to my spigot on the fermenter, I need to warm up the bare end in hot water first though as the spigot is to big for the hose when the hose is cold. You could get a bung which fits the hole on your Catalyst, with a hole in it so you can attach the gas-hose in that hole.

There is no such thing as a co2-blanket when you have gases moving around, they will mix. The idea is to just let co2 in contact with the beer. Since the keg is full of co2, and the fermentor, it's easiest to just use this co2, instead of connecting from your gas tank or such.