Coconut in secondary getting "patchy"

[primalyeti]

Hey everyone,

So i brewed this porter, and let it ferment for 2 weeks then moved in to a secondary where it's sitting on unsweetened, toasted coconut. Its been in the secondary for a week and a half and I just noticed that the coconut is getting "patchy"

Should I be worried?

 

[day_trippr]

Those white patches don't look good. Did you purge the head space with CO2 after racking?

 

[primalyeti]

Purge with CO2? I've never heard of such things, nor do I have any clue as to how to do that haha

 

[Cyclebrew]

I've only done coconut once, but it didn't do that. I did have to swirl the bottle a few times to clear some CO2 as the mat of coconut started to rise. Good luck! It might still be tasty even if infected (sour coconut beer).

Alternatively, maybe freeze concentration/distillation might make for a fun experiment which might also slow/stop infection (assuming it tastes good).

 

[Baileisdad]

Some kinda infection looking stuff there. Better try to siphon the stuff under it without disturbing the white stuff

 

[primalyeti]

Ah crap, not what I wanted to hear. I'll def get that syphoned out tomorrow and put in to a clean carboy. What a waste of coconut, I hope I got some flavour at least

 

[primalyeti]

Any idea how this would have happened, and how to prevent it from happening in the future? This was my first foray in to secondary fermentation with fruit.

 

[Baileisdad]

Maybe swirl it next time so the coconut gets doused with alcohol. I never had that problem before. I toast my coconut right before I add to secondary thinking heat will kill the bad stuff

 

[IslandLizard]

That coconut stays nice and damp on top of the beer and really doesn't get mixed in. A lot of things like to grow in that environment, like mold. After you rack it off, check what kind of infection it is. Your beer maybe just fine. Bacterial would not always be bad, if you like sours, but mold is never good.

 

[day_trippr]

Any idea how this would have happened,

Oxygen exposure.

and how to prevent it from happening in the future?[...]

Purge the head space with CO2 after racking...

Cheers!

 

[primalyeti]

I figured the alcohol in the beer would ward off any infections, but yeah, just having the coconut floating on top would def make a perfect condition for bacterial growth. I added the coconut to the carboy first and racked the beer on top but it all eventually settled on the top apparently. Next time, should I give it a mix every now and then? Also, how do I do a co2 purge without a co2 tank haha, I don't Keg my beer so I don't have one on hand. Can I use those small capsule co2 things?

 

[primalyeti]

Alright, beer moved in to new carboys. Tasted quite good, so I'm hoping the crisis has been averted.

Any ideas how I can avoid something like this in the future?

 

[WDT]

Neglecting to toast the coconut might have been your issue, if you didn't want to toast it you could spritz it with vodka or star-san before going into the secondary.

Coincidentally, I am brewing a coconut porter right now. I finished with primary ferment and then racked it to a secondary (corny keg) with 1lb of coconut flakes (toasted in a pan). I hit the keg with CO2 and purged out the oxygen. It's 2 days into the secondary and I plan on giving the keg a swirl every day for the next week or so.

I know you said you don't have a keg setup, but I didn't really attempt beers like this until I had a way to keep O2 out of the beer. I know Williams Brewing has a CO2 purge kit that uses the small CO2 cartridges for carboys and what not. Might want to check those out.

 

[primalyeti]

I toasted mine too, i figured it would be enough, but i guess by having it just float on top idle gave something a chance to grow.

I did a bunch a research and it seems mixing everything up once a day seems to be enough to keep infections away. Im also going to give the vodka trick a try next time.

I'll look in to that purge kit though, thanks!

 

[primalyeti]

So I moved everything out of the secondary and in to new carboys, let it sit for a few days and then noticed that the infection had followed. So I said screw it and just bottled it all.

As expected, the infection followed along in to the bottles too. My question is, should I wait it out and see if the alcohol kills everything off, or should I just pitch it all and move on?

 

[Kahless]

For the future, you could sanitise a pair of nylon tights in starsan, put the coconut in them along with some sanitised marbles or glass of some kind (carefully what with the glass carboy - I should say I've only done this in plastic), and they will sink to the bottom and remain submerged.
I did this for lemon and orange peel (also kept them in bourbon for a week to sanitise).

In know its against the status-quo, But I tend to add things to the primary at day 7-10 of fermentation, and keep them in there for the extended duration. If I were to secondary for clarity, i'd then do that afterwards. This means there will still be some CO2 coming off the beer and filling the headspace, and you get rid of all the worst junk in one go.

For the present: I don't know what type of infection that is, but if its anaerobic you could end up with bottle bombs. If you think it was a mould, then it is likely aerobic, and the generation of CO2 by the yeast in the bottles should drive it off. Keep your bottles somewhere padded and towelled, just in case.

 

[primalyeti]

Hmm awesome thinking on using tights and marbles.

And what's wrong with adding it to the primary? Everywhere I read said not too, but failed to specify why.

 

[Baileisdad]

Cuz the flavore and aroma will blow out with the co2. So they say!!

 

[Kahless]

As long as the majority of the fermentation has finished by the time you add, you wont lose too much aroma and flavour. The only thing to worry about is the primary doesn't have a neck with which to limit the headspace, but at the same time the blanket of CO2 should remain there in sufficient quantity so long as you are careful and quick, and as long as the primary is sufficiently sealed/airlocked. After Primary fermentation there will still be a good bit of dissolved CO2, so the slight increase in activity from adding anything will cause some more to fill out into the headspace after you seal it up. The secondary runs the risk of having no CO2 blanket at all, particularly after a long primary stage in a warmer climate where CO2 will escape more quickly from the beer itself.

However, saying that, the CO2 "blanket" isn't as robust as say, water in air, and it will disperse over time (maybe only a few minutes while the lid is opened, so get additions in quickly but gently enough to not stir up the invisible blanket!).

 

[vereto]

Cuz the flavore and aroma will blow out with the co2. So they say!!

I had heard the same thing but I ended up trying it anyway

I used coconut in the mash and put in primary and got a very nice coconut flavor so I don't really agree with the general consensus.

That being said, I would never add loose coconut to primary again due to all the oils it put out - That and the ridicules mess it made. As mentioned in this thread, coconut does not score first place in the sinking department. Mine actually suspended in the beer and made siphoning it out a real pain in the ass.

Point of my reply though - You don't lose flavor and aroma by putting it in primary.

 

[NewWestBrewer]

Maybe next time put it in a muslim bag with a few sanitized marbles so it sinks to the bottom.

EDIT: Sorry just saw the previous post about bag and marbles

 

[eastoak]

Any idea how this would have happened, and how to prevent it from happening in the future? This was my first foray in to secondary fermentation with fruit.

i have to disagree with a previous answer to your question, this infection was not caused by O2 exposure and flushing the head space would not have prevented the infection.

 

[primalyeti]

i have to disagree with a previous answer to your question, this infection was not caused by O2 exposure and flushing the head space would not have prevented the infection.

Any ideas then?

 

[eastoak]

Any ideas then?

the coconut is the most likely culprit in this case, rich in sugar. there are multiple sources of infection out there which is why sanitation is so important. i've never been tempted to make a coconut flavored beer but if i did i guess i would bake it as long as it was viable to bake (at 160 or so) without killing it, then add it to the beer.

 

[primalyeti]

next time I will definitely be toasting the coconut at a lower temp, and for longer. That, combined with putting it in a bag with marble, and putting co2 in the headspace. All those should help minimize my risk, combined with proper sanitization of course.

Not sure if I should try a coconut porter again, or if I should try something else. All the feedback I've gotten will definitely help make the next one a success though!

 

[day_trippr]

Ever see mold in a sugar bowl? No? Neither have I...

Cheers!

 

[eastoak]

Ever see mold in a sugar bowl? No? Neither have I...

Cheers!

he didn't put a bowl in his beer, silly.

 

[day_trippr]

Ever seen moldy sugar sitting in an open-to-the-elements-for-gawd-only-knows-how-long sugar bowl? No? Neither have I...

Cheers!