co2 tank went boom at family reunion

[OpenSights]

Wife’s family reunion today, got a cool stein from Germany!

Anyhow, I brought three kegs and just in case brought a smaller co2 tank. Had the windows of my truck half way down, roughly 80f out today. All of a sudden there’s a ton of co2 spewing out of my truck!

Anyone ever hear of this happening?

 

[Pkrd]

Was the tank upright?

 

[beermanpete]

The temperature in the truck must have been too high. Did the tank actually explode or did the pressure relief do its thing and safely vent pressure?

 

[OpenSights]

Was the tank upright?

On it’s side.

The temperature in the truck must have been too high. Did the tank actually explode or did the pressure relief do its thing and safely vent pressure?

PRV did it’s job.

 

[Yooper]

Yep, happens when it's too hot. I know one guy on the forum had a tank in the backseat, and luckily was able to pull over before he got overcome from the fumes.

A co2 tank should never be in a hot place, especially the trunk of a car, or inside a car when it could hurt someone.

 

[OpenSights]

When I take it to be refilled should I have the PRV replaced?

 

[brewbama]

I alway ensure that is my last stop when running errands and head straight home with AC blasting.

Edit: I’d tell them what happened and let them tell you.

 

[Philip1993]

If I'm not mistaken, it's unlawful to transport gas cylinders inside a passenger vehicle.

 

[OpenSights]

If I'm not mistaken, it's unlawful to transport gas cylinders inside a passenger vehicle.

While registered as a personal vehicle, it is employed as a commercial vehicle that is allowed to be used for personal use.

Other than that, how in the heck could you transport a tank of propane for your grill or burner if you weren’t a business owner?

 

[Horseflesh]

I doubt it’s illegal to transport cylinders in a personal vehicle.

I don’t work in the gas industry or anything like that, but I am scuba certified and they spent a while on gas cylinders in class... hydro testing, how to read the stamps, burst discs, DOT vs European standards, that kind of thing. I think we even talked about some special rules for taking them into Canada.

If it was also just plain illegal to transport a cylinder personally, I’m sure it would have come up since it seems important.

 

[day_trippr]

When I take it to be refilled should I have the PRV replaced?

Well, yes, because otherwise the cylinder will never actually fill.
The PRV is actually called a "burst disk" for a reason...

fwiw: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/...g-dont-leave-full-co2-tanks-in-hot-car.68222/

Cheers!

 

[Philip1993]

I doubt it’s illegal to transport cylinders in a personal vehicle.

I don’t work in the gas industry or anything like that, but I am scuba certified and they spent a while on gas cylinders in class... hydro testing, how to read the stamps, burst discs, DOT vs European standards, that kind of thing. I think we even talked about some special rules for taking them into Canada.

If it was also just plain illegal to transport a cylinder personally, I’m sure it would have come up since it seems important.

Personally isn't the issue, inside the passenger compartment is. And scuba is slightly different. If a disk bursts, it doesn't instantly fill the passenger compartment with asphyxiating and/or potentially explosive gas. CO2 does the former, acetylene the latter.

Of course I could be mistaken, but it's extremely unsafe.

 

[Horseflesh]

People do transport gases you don’t want to breathe for scuba... argon and nitrogen. Still never was taught it’s illegal to put such a cylinder in the passenger compartment. I grant there’s a risk though.

 

[Bassman2003]

On it’s side.

I have always heard to make sure the tanks are upright at all times. The liquid inside can clog up the output and cause an explosion. Maybe this is part of the cause?

 

[RPh_Guy]

I hate breathing nitrogen

 

[Horseflesh]

No more than about 80% nitrogen please!

But if the issue is asphyxiation in a small space, a nitrogen tank can accomplish that.

 

[RPh_Guy]

More helium please!

 

[day_trippr]

I have always heard to make sure the tanks are upright at all times. The liquid inside can clog up the output and cause an explosion. Maybe this is part of the cause?

That's kinda nonsensical when you think about it. You're not going to actually freeze CO2 without prodigious (read: dry ice) effort.
The problem is the vapor pressure. If the vapor temperature on a full cylinder exceeds whatever the burst disk was rated it's gonna blow...

Cheers!

 

[Vale71]

People do transport gases you don’t want to breathe for scuba... argon and nitrogen.

Argon and nitrogen aren't toxic, CO2 is. You can pass out from CO2 inhalation long before you have time to crack open a window and pull over, so you are putting other people's lives at risk and not just yours by driving around with a CO2 cylinder inside the passenger compartment.
Thankfully, this type of accident mostly happens when the car is stationary and the AC is off.

 

[Horseflesh]

That doesn’t make sense. You can pass out from breathing pure nitrogen or argon too. They displace air in exactly the same way.

 

[Vale71]

Again, CO2 is toxic for the human body, it does not just displace air. That's why you'll start getting sick with just 2-5% CO2 in the air but can breathe in 78% nitrogen without any issues. In practical terms, you'll pass out much faster and that will happen even if the atmosphere is not 100% saturated with CO2, which is why CO2 is much more dangerous and should be treated accordingly.

 

[Horseflesh]

If you have a link about high co2 knocking you out faster than other gases at the same concentration I’d sincerely like to see it.

Though I think we’re talking apples and oranges—I’m thinking asphyxia levels of gas replacement, not toxicity, which is a factor for co2, yes. I would not want to breathe 2%.

Anyway my co2 will still ride shotgun.

 

[bracconiere]

If I'm not mistaken, it's unlawful to transport gas cylinders inside a passenger vehicle.

when i swap my tank, they never complain when i throw it in my trunk....

I hate breathing nitrogen

as long as it's not liquid, you should be alright....far as i know, it's inert....speaking of which, i froze my co2 lines purging my kegs couple days ago....

 

[bracconiere]

Again, CO2 is toxic for the human body, it does not just displace air. That's why you'll start getting sick with just 2-5% CO2 in the air but can breathe in 78% nitrogen without any issues. In practical terms, you'll pass out much faster and that will happen even if the atmosphere is not 100% saturated with CO2, which is why CO2 is much more dangerous and should be treated accordingly.

damn, and they just had the moon-landing thingy on google doodle!

 

[Vale71]

If you have a link about high co2 knocking you out faster than other gases at the same concentration I’d sincerely like to see it.

I don't think that I need a link to prove that you can breathe in nitrogen at up to 78% with no ill effects, however if you replace 10% or more of that nitrogen with CO2 then your life is at serious risk, QED.

 

[Vale71]

when i swap my tank, they never complain when i throw it in my trunk....

Unless you have your cylinders filled by the DOT or the police I don't see why they should complain, after all it's not their job to ensure your compliance to regulations.

 

[Horseflesh]

Yes, of course. But this started with a burst disc story... again, feels like we’re talking about different things.

I just want someone to tell me if the cylinder police are coming for me.

 

[Vale71]

Yes, of course. But this started with a burst disc story... again, feels like we’re talking about different things.

I just want someone to tell me if the cylinder police are coming for me.

If they are, you'll never hear the black helicopters coming anyway...

Serously, with inert gases you need to push enough oxygen out of your environment that you'll start asphyxiating. Considering that climbers on Everest have less than 1/3 of the oxygen available at sea level and still manage to survive you'll really need very low oxygen levels to be in immediate danger. In a not perfectly sealed environment and with a limited supply of inert gas there's a good chance this might not happen at all and you'll survive with just a scary story to tell.
With CO2 on the other hand you can still have plenty of oxygen available and still succumb to the effects of CO2 toxicity. CO2 is particularly nasty as it will increase your respiratory rate in an attempt to get rid of the CO2 dissolved in your blood, however if you are still in a high CO2 level environment and unable to leave immediately (for example through having become unconscious) the result is that you will absorb even more CO2 even faster and enter a vicious circle that can easily end in your demise.

 

[Horseflesh]

I don’t disagree with any of that.

Personally I’m still more concerned about the inert gas asphyxia scenario because it can knock you out without warning, since you’re not building up co2 which is your “I need to breathe” signal. CO2 exposure is uncomfortable and if levels are creeping up, I expect you’d be able to pull over before conking out.

Here’s hoping I never find out personally.

 

[Vale71]

As you pointed out we're talking about a burst disc scenario and not a slow leak. In that scenario you're certainly facing acute exposure and that will most likely render you unconscious long before you can say "What is that burning sensation...glaaargh...".

 

[papz]

Some gasses are worse than others but there is something you all have overlooked......
Let's say you get in a car accident and something knocks the valve off of your CO2 tank.
It just became a rocket that WILL go right through just about anything it hits.
Have you ever noticed that the larger tanks have shields/casings for the valves that thread into place? I've heard stories of pressurised tanks punching through cinder block walls.
Noooooo thank you.

 

[Vale71]

That's more of an issue with high pressure cylinders. Liquid CO2 tanks only have about 50 bar pressure, unless they overheat...

 

[Soulshine2]

When I take it to be refilled should I have the PRV replaced?

if they dont already (which they should by law) ,have them at least inspect it.

 

[Soulshine2]

If I'm not mistaken, it's unlawful to transport gas cylinders inside a passenger vehicle.

not unlawful, but definitely potentially dangerous.

 

[Soulshine2]

In my profession I have sat through many a safety course and OSHA training. Ive been bombarded by do's and don'ts of everything ,compressed gas bottle handing inclusive.
-Keep the safety cap screwed on over the valve when not in use.
-be aware of what gasses don't play well with others(oxidizers) and keep them 10 ft apart .
-Inspect all valves ,hoses, regulators,and the cylinder itself before use. any rust or dents, have it professionally inspected by a licensed vendor.
-do not transport them without them being properly secured or temperature controlled .

 

[OpenSights]

Didn’t think this thread would spark such a discussion, but interesting nonetheless. I know to keep a propane tank upright and secured, however all my tanks of mapp gas are stored on their sides, often in 100f+ heat.

 

[kh54s10]

In this conversation I see: Nitrogen is OK up to 78%. Well that is good since dry air already has 78%. Don't know how much more would make you pass out the same way co2 would.. I agree that co2 is toxic, and worse. But agree with another response that comparison is apples and oranges. Or more accurately, possibly, hand grenades and dynamite.

I doubt it is illegal to carry a 5 or even 20 pound co2 cylinder in a passenger vehicle. Those 5 foot tall ones on the other hand??? Otherwise you would have to have them delivered commercially. Is it safe? Usually. But there is a risk. Reminds me of the glass carboy conversation.

Propane tanks???

 

[Nagorg]

Cant find any solid information about the legality of transporting CO2 *inside* your vehicle. But this manufacturer has what looks like common sense guidelines. And apparently they suggest that lying on the side is okay while upright is preferred.
Heat, looks to be the biggest concern.
https://www.catalinacylinders.com/faqs/transporting-shipping-of-co2-cylinders/

 

[Bassman2003]

That's kinda nonsensical when you think about it. You're not going to actually freeze CO2 without prodigious (read: dry ice) effort.
The problem is the vapor pressure. If the vapor temperature on a full cylinder exceeds whatever the burst disk was rated it's gonna blow...

Cheers!

Maybe the issue is in the context of trying to access/use the CO2 while the tank was on its side? Obviously I do not know what I am talking about but I was told by somebody in the gas industry to not put the thing on its side!

 

[crazyjake19]

It's not illegal to transport tanks in a passenger vehicle, maybe frowned upon. I've always transported propane, argon, and CO2 tanks inside my SUVs. In the summer I'll keep the A/C on and make sure the tank exchange is my final stop. The propane and CO2 tanks are small enough to stand upright but my argon tank has to lay horizontal.

I can't afford to buy a truck just for transporting tanks, and if they ever tell me I can't transport tanks in my car for brewing or welding, you might as well just put me in the ground now.