CO2 tank empty and Keg overflew and spilled

[m3B.eer]

Hi everyone,

I woke up this morning to check my kegs to an unpleasant surprise. I feel like the keg that was hooked to the CO2 almost emptied itself everywhere... and the CO2 tank empty.
Last time I checked the set-up was the night before last, I was carbonating my beer. IT was near to be done, at 20PSI, was planning to have it hooked for max 2 more days.

Can that happen often?

It was hard for me to tell from where the beer spilled on the keg - a picnic tap was still hooked on it. I suspect it to have from the liquid ball lock fitting... but can't be sure of that.

 

[Konadog]

If you can pressurize your keg again, you may be able to find your leak if you haven't moved thing around.

Yes it can happen if you have a leak, the CO2 will push beer out until it's gone, then it will leak CO2 until it's gone. Kinda like leaving the faucet on, it will keep flowing until your out of water or someone turns it off.

 

[IslandLizard]

So sorry about this happening to you!

20 psi is quite high for forced carbonating a keg for 2 days, especially when using a picnic tap on a short line. 8-12 psi is more the norm, but it all depends on your dispensing system.

As @Konadog said if there was any CO2 left you'd probably find it hissing or bubbling.
Since it spewed all your beer out, the problem must be on the liquid side of the system. Could well be the liquid post not sealing to the keg stub, the o-ring underneath the dip tube, the QD, the picnic tap itself, or any of the tubing connections between. Or even a combination of any of them.

I'd check the QD, make sure that little lid on top (with the screwdriver slit in it) is tightened down and sealing. There's a thin, square profile, rubber ring inside.

Next time you hook things up like that, definitely check regularly. Like an hour after, and again a few hours later, making sure everything is going as planned.

 

[m3B.eer]

What's QD for?

I should have checked last night but ...

The liquid post should be fine as I was cleaning and sanitizing the keg upside-down.

I did try to spray all the links where there was CO2 and found no bubbling, nor hissing on this system.

 

[m3B.eer]

If you can pressurize your keg again, you may be able to find your leak if you haven't moved thing around.

Yes it can happen if you have a leak, the CO2 will push beer out until it's gone, then it will leak CO2 until it's gone. Kinda like leaving the faucet on, it will keep flowing until your out of water or someone turns it off.

When you mean leak, you mean a Co2 Leak? How would it have push the beer until it's gone? I don't understand. I had it already carbonated for 2 days without any issues, apparently.

 

[m3B.eer]

What startles me is that, if I had a CO2 leak, why would my beer be pushed out of the keg and empty itself...?

 

[Konadog]

No, had to be on the liquid side if you lost beer, unless your keg split. I'm guessing that your picnic tap leaked.

 

[m3B.eer]

Never leave a picnic tap hooked for too long then... sad sad sad

So the theory would be : there was too much pressure in the keg it made the beer flow out from the liquid side of things?

 

[Golddiggie]

IME, ball lock QD's either work or they don't. You should know really fast if it's not sealed at 20psi into the keg. When I was carbonating in keg, I would only have the CO2 connected, nothing connected on the liquid/out side of the keg. Even now, when I'm 'storing' a keg in the keezer, it's on gas but not liquid (if there's no available faucet).

What kind of clamps are you using for the tubing? If you're using worm clamps (tighten with a screw) if's possible that the leak was from there. I don't trust worm clamps on anything anymore. Oetiker clamps (stainless steel crimping clamps) are all I use.

 

[wsmith1625]

Hi everyone,

I woke up this morning to check my kegs to an unpleasant surprise. I feel like the keg that was hooked to the CO2 almost emptied itself everywhere... and the CO2 tank empty.
Last time I checked the set-up was the night before last, I was carbonating my beer. IT was near to be done, at 20PSI, was planning to have it hooked for max 2 more days.

Can that happen often?

It was hard for me to tell from where the beer spilled on the keg - a picnic tap was still hooked on it. I suspect it to have from the liquid ball lock fitting... but can't be sure of that.

Damn, I feel so bad that you lost a full keg of beer and your co2. I never connect my liquid lines while force carbing. I don't know why I started that practice, but it probably would have prevented your situations. Poppets can stick open, but you would see it immediately when you hit it with #20 of co2.

 

[bracconiere]

is this a sanke, or cornelius keg?

 

[m3B.eer]

It's a corny keg... First time it happened. But I guess yes, I won't leave the liquid post connected anymore while force carbonating unless serving.

Lost pretty much a full beer and a 10lbs of CO2... I had only used the tank for 1 keg before that... speaking of which, how much is it approximately to refill it in your area?

Thanks for your messages, everyone..

 

[m3B.eer]

IME, ball lock QD's either work or they don't. You should know really fast if it's not sealed at 20psi into the keg. When I was carbonating in keg, I would only have the CO2 connected, nothing connected on the liquid/out side of the keg. Even now, when I'm 'storing' a keg in the keezer, it's on gas but not liquid (if there's no available faucet).

What kind of clamps are you using for the tubing? If you're using worm clamps (tighten with a screw) if's possible that the leak was from there. I don't trust worm clamps on anything anymore. Oetiker clamps (stainless steel crimping clamps) are all I use.

I guess I use worm clamps then.

And no more liquid QD on while force carbonating!

 

[m3B.eer]

Damn, I feel so bad that you lost a full keg of beer and your co2. I never connect my liquid lines while force carbing. I don't know why I started that practice, but it probably would have prevented your situations. Poppets can stick open, but you would see it immediately when you hit it with #20 of co2.

What do you mean by Poppet?

 

[Dland]

I never leave my liquid line hooked up, except when dispensing. Period.

Poppets are internal check valves in keg posts. One on gas side, one on liquid side. They keep pressure and contents of keg in when lines not hooked to posts.

 

[JJinMD]

Here is a visual.

 

[JJinMD]

I had a poppet get stuck open with debris this past summer and it made a mess of my garage with root beer... In that situation, I also found out that the picnic taps have some pressure limitations that I had not been previously aware of.

My guess is your leak was in the picnic tap, either the actual tap itself or the worm clamp. I have moved away from worm clamps and now use duotight fittings wherever possible. I even switched all my picnic taps out for the duotight versions.

 

[ITV]

No, had to be on the liquid side if you lost beer, unless your keg split. I'm guessing that your picnic tap leaked.

I agree with this. Either the picnic tap leaked or the lever was accidentally activated when stored.

I had this happen to a keg of rootbeer, now I disconnect any picnic taps unless dispensing beer and with my perlick taps I turn off the flow control to prevent the lever from getting bumped when storing away in my keezer.

I tossed my picnic taps and replaced them with Pluto taps.

 

[marc1]

I agree with this. Either the picnic tap leaked or the lever was accidentally activated when stored.

I had this happen to a keg of rootbeer, now I disconnect any picnic taps unless dispensing beer and with my perlick taps I turn off the flow control to prevent the lever from getting bumped when storing away in my keezer.

I tossed my picnic taps and replaced them with Pluto taps.

I have the Pluto guns too. I also put a shutoff valve inline before the tap so that there won't be a big leak even if the trigger somehow gets depressed.

 

[m3B.eer]

Thanks guys. Lesson learned for me! I hope it doesn't happen again, to any of us!

 

[IslandLizard]

how much is it approximately to refill it in your area?

A 20# refill (or swap, which is easier here) is around $26 here in the Southern Baltimore/Columbia area.

A 10# may be around the same price; it's not the cost of the CO2, it's the labor etc. that's involved with filling, distributing, storing, and selling them.

So call around to get the lay of CO2 land in your area. You may be surprised how much $$ difference there can be... for the same CO2.

 

[Konadog]

In my area, it's about $24 to $30 for a #2.5 to #20. That's at a LBH that refills tanks, not an Air/Gas place. Not much difference so the bigger the better.

 

[tld6008]

Be interesting to know what the max working pressure of a picnic tap is, I tried to find it and it's not readily stated. There was one reference on Amazon at "up to 20 psi" but it was poorly worded statement. I've always used them for distribution but never connect until force carb period is over so 12 psi max at my house.

 

[IslandLizard]

Be interesting to know what the max working pressure of a picnic tap is, I tried to find it and it's not readily stated. There was one reference on Amazon at "up to 20 psi" but it was poorly worded statement. I've always used them for distribution but never connect until force carb period is over so 12 psi max at my house.

I use picnic taps for 100% liquid pre-purging corny kegs. I start at around 20-25 psi to reduce the time to push the bulk of Starsan out. Then turn the regulator down toward the end, ending with 6-10 psi right before it blows foam. I've never seen a leak at 20-25 psi, but haven't pushed them much beyond that.

If I were the OP, @m3B.eer, I'd leave the empty (messy) keg as is, everything connected, until I had a full CO2 bottle to do a little inspection for possible causes of the leak.

 

[IslandLizard]

Either the picnic tap leaked or the lever was accidentally activated when stored.

This is also a possibility to consider.
The picnic tap handle activates the inside plunger in both directions, when squeezed and when pulled.

 

[ITV]

I use picnic taps for 100% liquid pre-purging corny kegs. I start at around 20-25 psi to reduce the time to push the bulk of Starsan out. Then turn the regulator down toward the end, ending with 6-10 psi right before it blows foam. I've never seen a leak at 20-25 psi, but haven't pushed them much beyond that.

I would think that they would degrade over time.
After having two fail on me as they get older, I won't go back to picnic taps.

 

[IslandLizard]

I would think that they would degrade over time.
After having two fail on me as they get older, I won't go back to picnic taps.

My picnic taps are 8 years old, and have had quite some use over the years. I take them apart after each use/event, and haven't found any degradation, aside from the silicone plunger having become discolored.

I haven't seen all that many fail either.
One (not mine) had failed mechanically, the prong on the handle that connects to the little plastic stick, which actuates the plunger, had broken off. Although inoperable, the tap remained closed.

 

[PCABrewing]

My picnic taps are 8 years old, and have had quite some use over the years. I take them apart after each use/event, and haven't found any degradation, aside from the silicone plunger having become discolored.

I haven't seen all that many fail either.

I have taps older than that and have not observed any degradation either. I think I am still using the first one I ever bought back in 1998. I cannot remember ever discarding one .
I follow a similar cleaning routine and I do periodically leave one on the keg in the fridge for a week or longer. I do make sure it is clear of the door and shelves when closing just to avoid a accidental operation and filling the fridge with beer.

Now having said that I am probably on track for a failure .

 

[GrowleyMonster]

I carbonate in the fridge with nothing connected to the beer post, gas connected to the gas post, regulated at 5psi, so at kegerator temps the CO2 volume in the keg is normal serving pressure at normal serving temp, after stabilizing over the next few days. Even if I run empty on the tapped keg and need to hook up a keg, I give it a few days before I connect the beer line.

After a few days I take it out and it goes into the rotation cycle but I know that the keg is properly carbed and can stand in line waiting its turn for the place of honor. Whatever I have in the kegs, I always actually tap my oldest keg. Usually after chilling overnight it is perfect.

To lose all your CO2, you need a leak, anywhere in the system. To make a mess, you need a leak in the beer side. Not having anything connected until it is ready to serve eliminates a lot of potential beer leaks. The post either leaks or it doesn't, at any normal serving pressure. It won't trick you and suddenly let go when you aren't looking, at normal serving pressures. And that is also why I no longer force carbonate at higher pressures. A few days at normal serving pressure will gitter done and you get no meringue pie pours those first couple of days.

 

[Dr_Jeff]

When I primarily used picnic taps, years ago, and naturally carbed in the keg. One time (or maybe more than once), I pulled an on deck keg from the closet, put it into the keezer, and proceeded to hook everything up as soon as the keg was in place. The keg being warm and at a higher pressure and possibly overcarbed, when I hooked up the beverage line, it went to blasting out beer and it was all I could to to get it off. It did make a big mess, but I had done the same thing prior, so it must have been overcarbed, no idea as to what the pressure was on that keg. (obviously well over 30psi)
It was a big surprise and lets say a "learning experience", lol.

 

[UdonPete]

I have the Pluto guns too. I also put a shutoff valve inline before the tap so that there won't be a big leak even if the trigger somehow gets depressed.

Can I ask what type of shutoff valve you use inline ?

 

[marc1]

Can I ask what type of shutoff valve you use inline ?

https://www.morebeer.com/products/duotight-pushin-fitting-8-mm-516-ball-valve.html

 

[UdonPete]

Thank you