Cleaning Used Copper Lines - Counterflow Chiller - What Would You Do?

[dinokath]

Hi all,

Took my IC and turned it into a CFC this past weekend. Tested it out for leaks and functionality and it worked very well. My concern is that the copper line is well used. It's been used as my IC for about 10 years or so now and I usually just blew out the water inside the IC with compressed air but never sanitized or cleaned the inside of the lines because it really didn't matter, right?

So after I built it, I hooked it up to pump and my pot and started circulating a gallon of boiling water through it. It remained clear the entire time I circulated the boiling water.

Read about using vinegar to clean it out on the How to Brew site by Palmer. Dropped in a quart of regular old vinegar into the pot and the water turned blue green almost instantly. Let it run for a while, about 20 minutes, and then dumped it out. Repeated. Dumped. Repeated. Dumped.

The water is less blue green than the first time, but still slightly blue green. Should I keep doing this over and over until it is totally clear?

I guess I am looking for the popular opinion on how far is too far in cleaning this out. I don't want to ruin the copper lines but I don't want my beers tasting 'blue green', like old pennies, you know?!

Thanks for the advice!

Dean

 

[stickyfinger]

I'd just buy new copper or a new chiller. Why risk it?

However, if I had to use that line, I'd set it up to recirculate a more concentrated acid solution. Keep doing that until it runs clear, and you may be ok.

 

[Transamguy77]

I'm pretty sure you could just soak and then recirculate your vinegar water till it runs clear. I think star San will work too.

 

[dinokath]

Been recirculating pretty much all day at this point. Gone between hot water/vinegar at 75/25, then hot water flush, then again 75/25, and a flush. Did that about 5x then ran StarSan and hot water in there. Turned the water copper colored! Ran that for 20 minutes then another vinegar. The vinegar is now running clear, no blue/green and when I peek down what I can see inside the pipe, it is sparking clean. Ran my beer line brush as far in as I could and it can out clean with no gunk on it.

Doing one more good recirculation with hot water/vinegar at 50/50, then a flush, then StarSan, then a flush then blow it out with compressed air and let it dry and then wait till my next brew day.

ALMOST went and bought new line but after looking at the price of 50ft of copper at the Depot at $60, coupled with the $60 I just spent on the parts to make this a CFC, I decided to try and clean that bad boy.

Plus, I just installed nitro in the kegerator and that wasn't cheap. The wife would skin me alive if I dropped any more money on equipment!

 

[stickyfinger]

glad it worked. you can always upgrade the wife...

 

[dinokath]

glad it worked. you can always upgrade the wife...

That's not an upgrade, that's a trade in. You aren't allowed to own more than one of those models, by law, at any given time. Problem is you lose half on the trade in and the newer model, while younger and sleeker, tend to cost you a little more in maintenance than you anticipated, making the trade a risky proposition financially. :smack:

Ain't worth the $60 bucks! heh heh..

 

[LarMoeCur]

I'd pump some hot PBW through it for 30 minutes followed by some StarSan. It will be shinning inside good as new. With all my recent deployments my equipment sat idle for a number of years. I had spiders and dead bugs in some of it. Really anything with some acidity will do the trick.

 

[andrewmaixner]

I seem to recall that acetic acid (vinegar) is good for removing dangerous copper copper compounds. Also Oxalic acid (liquid barkeep's friend) is listed. I'd probably recirculate vinegar in a few batches till new solution remains completely clear. (which is exactly what you did)

See these links for useful reads on meallurgy for homebrewing:

http://byo.com/malt/item/1144-metallurgy-for-homebrewers

http://webcache.googleusercontent.c.../brewing-metallurgy+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

I just was considering making a copper / hose counterflow chiller, but decided to have it made with stainless instead of copper, because I didn't want a non-visible copper surface to worry about. At least with the stainless, there are no potentially dangerous metallurgical interactions if there is some water or sanitizer left in it. I know that 100000 people are using copper counterflow, but whatever, it's only another 15$ to go stainless (having nybrewsupply make it based on their copper version).

 

[stickyfinger]

i still think i would use something really strong to get all of that outer coating off, especially after using it as a an immersion wort chiller, yuck! i'd use some strong, hot oxiclean or PBW first and then switch to some strong acid, muriatic, acetic or phosphoric, maybe 10%. vinegar is kind of weak.

 

[dinokath]

I am feeling pretty good about my cleaning regimen listed above. I am telling you, the inside of the tubing is sparkling (as far in as I can see). I recirculated for, quite honestly, around 8 hours with boiling water and either vinegar or Star San. My practice had always been to blow out the tubing with compressed air after I was done with it and let it drip dry, so I feel good that nothing really grew in there, just heavy oxidation, which I read is a good thing when it come to copper pipe. In the event this one fails or imparts off flavors (you bet you a$$ I will be making a double blind comparison on my next couple batches using the wife and neighbors as test subjects!) then the stainless option from nybrew is the route I am going to go.

Thank you all for the feedback!

 

[stevehaun]

You have cleaned it adequately. Use it.