Christianity and home brewing

[hehawbrew]

I was just reading a thread about homebrewing and alcoholism. Someone quoted the Bible and it got me thinking....

I'm a Christian. My father is a pastor. I'm very involved in church. I play drums, bass, etc for our church band.

A year ago my dad asked me to try and get more men involved and asked me to start a church homebrew group. There was not a ton of interest but I found another homebrewer in the congregation and got another two guys interested.

I expected some ppl to be very opposed to this, but, no one was( to my knowledge at least).

I know alcohol is a fine line in many Christian circles and was wondering about other ppls experiences.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[roger_tucker]

I'm not a Christian, but alcohol has been a part of the human experience for 1000's of years, including the biblical Israelites and Jesus' Judea. I get the distaste due to drunkenness and the negative impacts that alcohol has had on families over the years. However, I don't think there's anything in the Bible that says you can't enjoy the occasional home brew and participate in a wonderful hobby.

 

[erichsmith]

My pastor is a home-brewer and there are three members of my church that are including me. My dad is also a pastor and he doesn't brew or drink but this last weekend he came by the house while I was brewing and actually helped me. I am Moravian and if you know anything about Moravian history you'll know that the Moravian Church actually owned the Taverns and brewed the beer in the areas where they settled. They did this because the Taverns were the political center of the town and the church wanted some control over it. Also with the deep German roots of the Moravian Church it only makes sense that they did this. To my knowledge there are actually very few religions that are teetotalers. I recommend reading "Beer is Proof God Loves Us" by Charles W. Bramforth.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew Talk while driving.

 

[Malty_Dog]

If wine was served at the last supper I have a hard time believing God has an issue with enjoying a homebrew.

 

[tjhatchit]

Brewing with Clergy

Martin Luther and alcohol (because he liked it)
Monks and alcohol (monetary gain)

Alcohol pervades a lot of churches.

Whether a denomination or church or congregation or person considers it acceptable as opposed to abstinence, well that's a topic up for debate.

(IMO Abstinence is not the answer, but again that's up for debate.)

 

[FatDragon]

I grew up in a church that belonged to one of those 'drinking is a pretty nasty sin' sort of denominations. I went back to visit last summer for an elder's daughter's wedding. Lots of beer there, and the elder and I shared a couple the next day after church as well. Hardliners who claim to speak for their denomination make much of Christianity sound like teetotalers, but reason prevails among the majority.

Beer is just too good to be a sin.

 

[machfive55]

So, I'm a homebrewer and a Christian, my father is a pastor and he does partake in my craft. Recently I have been trying to get a group together that I call Beer Theology, where we meet regularly at a local pub and have beers and discuss religion. It has been a really hard thing to get together because I am basically pulling from my social network, due to the fact that the church I attend won't really support me. One of our pastors, at least, is aware of my gathering but afraid to promote it as a resource to those that are interested due to the fact that we meet in pubs. IMO, you walk the walk or you don't and that goes with everything you do.

 

[Teromous]

I believe Revvy is or was a reverend. It's not as uncommon as it might seem. I mean...look at the Trappist Monks!

 

[williamsdm1111]

Jesus almost always drank with his followers and disciples. ...water to wine. I brew with my church's worship leader all the time and always share with the pastor.


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

[cluckk]

I come from a different background and it sounds like one of my posts that the OP refers to. I was raised in the prohibitionist part of the Church. I was always taught that alcohol consumption was a sin--no matter what. Alcohol was to be feared and shunned. One drink would destroy your family and send you to hell.

At one point I got tired of regurgitating what others had taught me--and their obvious inconsistencies ("Alcohol is evil; here take this cough syrup" for example). I decided to study for myself what the Bible actually said about it. I came to understand that the Bible and church history are actually quite positive about alcohol and its reasonable consumption. Unfortunately, my ancestors had allowed the Prohibitionist movement to hijack the gospel and refit it for their political agenda. This seldom works out well.

Since I am still in churches where there is a prohibitionist tendency, it can be hard. I doubt the church would ever tolerate a homebrew club, even if the pastor (me) were leading it. I insist on teaching truth about the issue. So when I teach it, I know many disagree with me. I refuse to make it a major issue though. In practice I encourage people to follow Romans 14:22, "Whatsoever you believe about these things, keep it between yourself and God." This does not mean silence though, so I was also active in my denomination removing an old rule of abstinence that had been wrongly enforced against all pastors.

Of course, I think a church homebrew club would be a great outreach and quite effective. However, I also know most Christians have more vested interest in preserving their preconceptions than in actually making a difference in the world. It is sad.

For four years I did housechurch and each week we did the Lord's Supper as a full meal (the NT model) and the meal included wine and beer along with the bread and the rest of the food. It was always a blessed time, which I truly miss.

 

[Eugenio]

Im a catholic christian, and alcohol was never an issue in my religious upbringing. But im also latin, and spanish catholicism is more centered on family, sex, and acts. I know plenty of priests who drank, and that never affected who the congregations saw them.

I personally think its badass how some of the worlds best beers are made by monks. I can just picture a group of men thinking "alright, we are going to pray, then brew, then pray some more...finally we drink".

 

[jc5066]

Some denominations require their members to abstain from alcohol all together. With that said I have not read anything in the bible that supports this. The bible does say something about being drunk. The two are not the same.

One can enjoy a beer or two. Five or six or more is another story. As long as it is in moderation and not drinking in excess to get "drunk".

As long as you are conducting yourself in a way that praises God then you should have nothing to worry about. There will always be critics in what you do, no matter what you are doing. I hope those that are, are far and few between.

 

[PastorofMuppets]

I routinely take homebrew to my pastor and church friends. its not hidden or anything to be ashamed of.
If a person has a problem then i avoid sharing with them but its not homebrewings fault if thats true.

Beer has had a damaged reputation because of cheapo macro lagers which exist only to get people drunk, that is why its seen as a problem but some people. Craft and homebrew (at least for me) is about the culture, experience and enjoyment of flavors of beer and thats a good thing.

 

[kcbeersnob]

Recently I have been trying to get a group together that I call Beer Theology, where we meet regularly at a local pub and have beers and discuss religion.

Cool idea. I'd be into that.

 

[GrogNerd]

did Jesus drink beer?

of course... HEBREWED it

 

[troglodytes]

This is such an interesting thread, my friends and I were just having this discussion last night. The group of guys I homebrew with and I are all members of the same church. By no means would we be looked down upon because if home brewing and/or the consumption of alcohol, instead it provides another common interest to facilitate discussion.

Recently I have been trying to get a group together that I call Beer Theology, where we meet regularly at a local pub and have beers and discuss religion.

I love this idea, because there is so much down time in the brewing process. Having a group of guys brewing together is a great 5 hour window to have all kinds of interesting conversations and debates. I would wholeheartedly support any hobby which would bring Christians together outside the scope of a normal Sunday morning service, which my experience leads me to believe is rare for churches in America. I've been to so many churches where outside of Sunday no one interacts and everyone goes there own way. Having some sense of community and goal (homebrewing) can easily get the ball rolling and evolve into other common interests and goal (community service, etc).

 

[tootal]

One of our local club members is a pastor. He just took a best of show in a local competition.

An old friend's son became a Lutheren Minister. We met at a brewery and discussed this issue. He laughed and said, we all know how much Martin Luther loved his beer!

Different groups of Christians seem to have different rules but at least the core, that makes them Christians, remains the same. That lends to many different subjects but they can be put into one saying. Despise the sin but not the sinner.

I appreciated how Ben Franklin was a member of one church but went to many churches. He even helped support the first Jewish church. I think Ben liked his beer too!

 

[masteraviator]

Amazing. I lived for years in southern Alabama where I was surrounded by well meaning folk who, to me, confused the object with the act or actor. I was frequently told that alcohol was sinful. Alcohol, whether you are a Christian, Buddhist, Agnostic, Jew, Muslim or Atheist is an inanimate object. Inanimate objects cannot commit sin themselves but rather might be the fuel for humans to sin. There are, of course religions who believe that any consumption of alcohol is a sin; but IMHO that is an absolutist reaction. “There once was a guy who drank too much wine and tended not to his goats. Thus all of you must not imbibe the wine.” Moderation is a wonderful thing.

FWIW, the first time I thought of this retort was an hour too late, but I used it often after.
Me – So you’re saying I’m a sinner?
Them – Yes.
Me – So was Christ; so thank you for putting me in such esteemed company. I appreciate it.

 

[quincy07]

This is a topic that really hits home w me. I was raised LDS (Mormon) and they have a strict no alcohol policy called The Word of Wisdom that also includes tobacco use and "hot drinks" like coffee and tea as well as some other things that aren't really relevant to this discussion. I have become inactive in the church but my parents are still members and I live in a neighborhood that has a large LDS population. I have gotten some flak from my folks about it but not to the point of them damning me to hell or trying to exorcise the demons that live inside me lol.

I personally consider myself Agnostic at this point in my life and if there is a God, I don't think he'll mind if I drink a few beers and don't get dressed up every Sunday to go sit in a stuffy room w a bunch of strangers as long as I'm a good person and don't kill, steal, etc.

 

[machfive55]

I love this idea, because there is so much down time in the brewing process. Having a group of guys brewing together is a great 5 hour window to have all kinds of interesting conversations and debates. I would wholeheartedly support any hobby which would bring Christians together outside the scope of a normal Sunday morning service, which my experience leads me to believe is rare for churches in America. I've been to so many churches where outside of Sunday no one interacts and everyone goes there own way. Having some sense of community and goal (homebrewing) can easily get the ball rolling and evolve into other common interests and goal (community service, etc).

So this is part of my plan, the other part being able to share with people that normally would not go to church but would go to a pub.

My problem is that it is hard to find people to commit to even one night per month, my whole social network is 30-somethings with families and going to the pub is their last priority, even though they all think its a great idea. Family comes first, I get that, I'm there too. From now on I think I will plan meet-ups and say...if I get 5 people to commit, we'll go for it.

 

[solbes]

It doesn't seem weird to me at all; to be an active Christian and be a homebrewer. I am our current council president (Lutheran ELCA), and I even bring up some homebrew conversations after our meetings are over. I know 2 other congregation members who homebrew as well, so its a fellowship conversation as well.

Now, its like anything else. As long as it's within reason, I don't see a problem with it. Those who abuse it horribly, or are abusive to others when drinking, then it's obvious there are issues.

 

[Pappers_]

Married to a Lutheran pastor, hosting a beer and cheese tasting at the church in April, three other members of the board of my homebrew club are active members of congregations too.

Our congregation also hosts 12-Step group meetings five nights a week, which I personally champion within our congregation when old farts complain about the groups using our facilities.

Putting on my moderator hat: Please keep the conversation on-topic, i.e. about your experience as a homebrewer as a part of a faith community. Do not make this a debate, do not proselytize, do not bash others with different opinions.

 

[b-boy]

This is an interesting conversation. I hear a lot of comments about Christianity and alcohol.

It bothers me that people paint this with such a broad brush. I think the percentage of Christian sects that prohibit alcohol is fairly small when you look at the whole of Christianity. When I think Christian I think Catholic, Protestant, Mormon, and a few other outlying sects. I'm a Protestant myself.

I'd say most of the issues with alcohol are found in a few sects. When this is discussed I think it would make more sense to talk about specific Christian sects (who are probably a better representation of this attitude) that to just say Christians.

This is just a pet peeve of mine.

Carry on......

 

[MindenMan]

Once upon a time, when my ex and I were married, the pastor was hard core no alcohol period. He had a family member who was an alcoholic, so he found every text in the Bible that said don't drink. even Timothy commented, " A little wine is good for the stomach". My new wife and daughters are Seventh Day Adventist and their church knows I am a home brewer. No one has given me or my wife grief about my brewing, nor are we any kind of shunned do to to my brewing. The Seventh Day Adventist honor the Sabbath, just like the Jews do. For the most part many are vegetarians, some Vegans, and some carnivores like us. The Bible mentions "All things in moderation". I agree with the above posters, If drinking causes trouble in your life or that of your family, seek help.
Real quick one: the Pastor has never had even a taste of alcohol, his current wife
( the second one) enjoyed hard cider at our house with us. He is okay with his wife having one occasionally as well do we.

 

[glenn514]

I have been a member of the Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod my entire life [almost 68 years]. In addition, my entire professional life was spent in service to member congregations of the LC-MS. It wasn't until AFTER I retired that I got interested in homebrewing. Part of the "push" into homebrewing was growing up in Milwaukee when there were FOUR breweries going full-tilt! But part of it was also from Dr. Martin Luther as well as a Lutheran musician who lived a bit later than Luther: Michael Praetorius. As has been mentioned in other posts, Luther did enjoy a mug of beer. Praetorius was a German church musician, organist and musical theorist. He brewed beer to increase his income! When I brew or drink one of my brews, I enjoy something I've created, and feel absolutely NO guilt.

glenn514

 

[kcbeersnob]

I love this idea, because there is so much down time in the brewing process. Having a group of guys brewing together is a great 5 hour window to have all kinds of interesting conversations and debates.

Personally I wouldn't even consider pairing the discussion/debate time with the brewing process--too many opportunities to get distracted. This is why I generally prefer to brew alone and why I also do not drink while brewing.

 

[GHBWNY]

The Bible speaks in many places about wine and beer and nowhere are they referred to as "evil". In fact, fermentation of fruit- and grain-based beverages was the only way to insure long-term preservation of such a precious everyday commodity. By the same token, there are many biblical references to over-consumption of wine and beer leading to sinful behavior.

During a time of my life when I drank beer primarily for "medicinal purposes", I happened to find myself at a bible study one night. We were studying the Book of John and the account of Jesus turning water into wine at the wedding at Cana. Being new to this Jesus-stuff, I thought, "If alcohol is evil, why would Jesus make a huge batch of it for a party?" So, I asked the teacher. He said, "Having a drink is not a sin; drunkenness is." That one answer answered a lot of other questions didn't realize I had...

There are some who believe that any alcohol consumption is a sin and subsequently abstain from letting it touch their lips. And I have no problem with what compels someone to keep a clear conscience. I go by what the apostle Paul says when it comes to our behavior, that in all aspects if it, we need to be "self-controlled". For me, being "self-controlled" in my consumption of an alcoholic beverage makes the most sense and allows me the freedom of enjoying a beer or glass of wine with a clear conscience and without the burden of some dogmatic religious rule.

 

[Chuzzlewit]

"Malt does more than Milton can
To justify God's ways to man..."

A. E. Housman
A Shropshire Lad
http://www.bartleby.com/123/62.html​

 

[tjhatchit]

The problem is painting a false image of a perfect drinker.

"He's a Christian and can't, won't or just plain doesn't drink too much!"

How long will that last, until someone from your group has one too many and get's a OWI or get's rowdy, starts a bar fight and gets a disorderly conduct charge.

Shame on him, how will the church handle that?

It's a hypocritical thing. Just takes one person, one time and bam, the whole thing comes crumbling down.

Abstinence doesn't work either. Manipulative preachers sucking peoples money from their pockets.

It will create a vicious cycle and hypocracy.

Narrow is the path, what a bunch of horse ****.

 

[machfive55]

In the bible beer is mentioned many times (Jewish place names like Beersheeba), but from what I understand only once as a drink, wine is mentioned a lot. I have this bible verse I keep pinned up at work:

Isaiah 56:12 - "Come," each one cries, "let me get wine! Let us drink our fill of beer! And tomorrow will be like today, or even far better.

Crazy thing is, if you take it out of context it sounds like it is OK with drinking...but if you keep reading, the next passages start talking about drunkenness and whatnot, so it's actually mocking or condemning the act of drinking.

Anyhow, I'm just posting because I thought that would be an interesting tidbit for Christian homebrewers...get that bible verse engraved on your mash paddle or tap handles or something.

 

[solbes]

I see this headed for a lock, and that stinks! I think the premise of the thread is a very interesting topic.

 

[machfive55]

The Bible speaks in many places about wine and beer and nowhere are they referred to as "evil". In fact, fermentation of fruit- and grain-based beverages was the only way to insure long-term preservation of such a precious everyday commodity. By the same token, there are many biblical references to over-consumption of wine and beer leading to sinful behavior.

During a time of my life when I drank beer primarily for "medicinal purposes", I happened to find myself at a bible study one night. We were studying the Book of John and the account of Jesus turning water into wine at the wedding at Cana. Being new to this Jesus-stuff, I thought, "If alcohol is evil, why would Jesus make a huge batch of it for a party?" So, I asked the teacher. He said, "Having a drink is not a sin; drunkenness is." That one answer answered a lot of other questions didn't realize I had...

There are some who believe that any alcohol consumption is a sin and subsequently abstain from letting it touch their lips. And I have no problem with what compels someone to keep a clear conscience. I go by what the apostle Paul says when it comes to our behavior, that in all aspects if it, we need to be "self-controlled". For me, being "self-controlled" in my consumption of an alcoholic beverage makes the most sense and allows me the freedom of enjoying a beer or glass of wine with a clear conscience and without the burden of some dogmatic religious rule.

There are many tea-totalers that think the wine mentioned in the bible was actually just grape juice...or pale in comparisons to today's wine. This is how they skirt the issue of Jesus drinking wine. I think this tends to be more of a minority, but a very vocal minority. The same minority managed to get the drink banned in the US for a few years so its also a powerful minority.

Also, I'd like to point out that some people abstain because they have an addiction problem or have that history in their family...this I can get on board with.

 

[machfive55]

I see this headed for a lock, and that stinks! I think the premise of the thread is a very interesting topic.

Why? Seems very civil so far?

 

[Jacinthebox]

did Jesus drink beer?

of course... HEBREWED it

...

 

[GrogNerd]

it's discussable, just not debateable

that would get the thread moved to the DEBATE forum, which is not accessible to non-premium members, like us

which is what Pappers was warning about upthread

 

[ittybittykittycommittee]

Look at all us Lutherans! Awwww yeah!

I used to attend a church with a minority of parishioners who believed that alcohol is a sin. Not just that, but some believed Jesus sinned when he drank wine, whaaaaaa? It created a bit of a ruckus when the pastor added wine to communion as opposed to decades of just grape juice.

Now the congregation I attend has a few homebrewers (apparently). I even gave the pastor a sixer of homebrew as thanks at one point.

 

[Airplanedoc]

When I started homebrewing (extract), I would have my dad take me down to their church (the one I went to as a kid) so I could use their commercial stove.

 

[Oceantendency]

Doesn't matter if you're Jewish or Christian, the atonement of sin is death, which gluttony is a sin; so as long as you don't belong to a denomination that totally is against drinking and as long your drinking habits don't lead to other sins (Adultry/ too much debauchery/ murder/ thieving/gluttony/ or too much Pride); then you're in no danger. If the Monks are able to be limited to 3 Abbey's a day, in between prayers then hey I'm all good. Funny how I grew up Southern Baptist, yet we weren't the no dancing and Fire/Brimstone kinda Baptists, plus I'm Cajun- got dat under control Cha !

 

[hehawbrew]

I hope it dosnt get locked down. My intention is not to create conflict.

Someone was mentioning a pub group and theology. There is a town around me and a church meets at a pub and calls it, Theology On Tap.

I think homebrewing "demystifies" beer and let's people look at it as a art and a labor of love.

My father the pastor is on the down low about his love of my homebrew to keep the peace with those who rant for it. But- like someone touched on earlier , it does make for a good way for ppl to kindle new friendships, to work as a team, and other such things.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[hehawbrew]

I come from a different background and it sounds like one of my posts that the OP refers to. I was raised in the prohibitionist part of the Church. I was always taught that alcohol consumption was a sin--no matter what. Alcohol was to be feared and shunned. One drink would destroy your family and send you to hell.

At one point I got tired of regurgitating what others had taught me--and their obvious inconsistencies ("Alcohol is evil; here take this cough syrup" for example). I decided to study for myself what the Bible actually said about it. I came to understand that the Bible and church history are actually quite positive about alcohol and its reasonable consumption. Unfortunately, my ancestors had allowed the Prohibitionist movement to hijack the gospel and refit it for their political agenda. This seldom works out well.

Since I am still in churches where there is a prohibitionist tendency, it can be hard. I doubt the church would ever tolerate a homebrew club, even if the pastor (me) were leading it. I insist on teaching truth about the issue. So when I teach it, I know many disagree with me. I refuse to make it a major issue though. In practice I encourage people to follow Romans 14:22, "Whatsoever you believe about these things, keep it between yourself and God." This does not mean silence though, so I was also active in my denomination removing an old rule of abstinence that had been wrongly enforced against all pastors.

Of course, I think a church homebrew club would be a great outreach and quite effective. However, I also know most Christians have more vested interest in preserving their preconceptions than in actually making a difference in the world. It is sad.

For four years I did housechurch and each week we did the Lord's Supper as a full meal (the NT model) and the meal included wine and beer along with the bread and the rest of the food. It was always a blessed time, which I truly miss.

Yes, one your post in another thread is the reason for this!


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew