Cheapest Electric Setup

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ZmannR2

ZmannR2

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So I want a 10gal kettle with a BoilCoil and controller for mashing BIAB and boiling. Here's what I'm thinking:

Bayou Classic 1440 10 gal $76 plus false Bottom from Bobby I think like $29 (btw will the false bottom work over the boilcoil?)

120V BoilCoil or should I do the 240V?? (roughly $140-150)

And what is a cheap good temp controller for the BoilCoil??

So with those things bought, would that work??

Thanks for the help!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Boil-Coil? Well, that's certainly not the cheapest route but 240V is way more flexible overall. If you ever want to do 10 gallon batches, that coil will do it. There are a LOT more things needed to finish an electric setup but that plus a PID, SSR, contactor, wiring and an enclosure, puts you close.

I haven't seen a false bottom that rose off the bottom high enough for a boil coil, I had to use a pizza pan with stainless steel bolts to get over my element. You would have to get longer bolts for Bobby's.
 
120V element won't boil much more than 5 gallons, which makes getting the 10gal kettle unnecessary (or just alot of head space).

What batch size are you planning?
 
If you have 2x different circuits available to you 120v is fine. Comes in cheaper too, all the higher amperage components and wire really adds up.
 
iijakii said:
If you have 2x different circuits available to you 120v is fine. Comes in cheaper too, all the higher amperage components and wire really adds up.
Click to expand...

In my case, the wire was less than the pot for 240v. Not sure what you mean by 2 different circuits, its only 110v. 110v is one hot, one neutral and one ground.
 
I am sure he could get lots of 10ga wire for the price of a second boil coil! Imagine the height of two coils too, no way you could have a false bottom and still do a 5 gallon boil, the grain would never touch the water! :mug:
 
Well right, screw the boil coil!

OP needs to decide what he wants from a system. He mentions CHEAPEST but then talks about what sounds like a recirculating eBIAB setup? If you want that go for it, but you can easily get by without. Either 240v with a cheap stilldragon kit for boil control, or 2x 120v and not needing a controller. Insulate with a sleeping bag and not have to buy a PID setup, false bottom etc. Either way works, personal preference.
 
iijakii said:
Well right, screw the boil coil!

OP needs to decide what he wants from a system. He mentions CHEAPEST but then talks about what sounds like a recirculating eBIAB setup? If you want that go for it, but you can easily get by without. Either 240v with a cheap stilldragon kit for boil control, or 2x 120v and not needing a controller. Insulate with a sleeping bag and not have to buy a PID setup, false bottom etc. Either way works, personal preference.
Click to expand...

OK, I guess I'm confused to all hell here. Isn't a boil coil just a hot element that is mounted in the bottom of your kettle that makes water boil? Whats all this recirculation stuff? I figured a simple controller of some type was all that was needed.

All I want is a pot with a heating element inside it to boil water, a false bottom that sits right above it and something to turn on and off the heating coil when the desired temp is reached
 
ZmannR2 said:
OK, I guess I'm confused to all hell here. Isn't a boil coil just a hot element that is mounted in the bottom of your kettle that makes water boil? Whats all this recirculation stuff? I figured a simple controller of some type was all that was needed.

All I want is a pot with a heating element inside it to boil water, a false bottom that sits right above it and something to turn on and off the heating coil when the desired temp is reached
Click to expand...

Boil coil is just spendy is all. Also why are you wanting a false bottom when doing BIAB?

What I highlighted in red can significantly sway the cost and complexity on this. Are you looking to have this semi-automated and hold temps for you? Or you wanting to brew kinda like propane where you manually heat up your water, turn it off, then back on to boil?
 
Cheapest...never an easy word that ends in "est".

Sounds like you are doing smaller batches, 5 gallons or less. I would ditch the boil coil and get something like Bobby has on his site, the HotRod (if it ever is in stock long enough to order...bahaha). That plus a 1500W 120V element should suffice. Not sure why you want a false bottom if you are doing BIAB. I might suggest you look at something like a BIA Basket like Utah Diesel or Arbor Fab make. If you want to automate any of this, you will need a lot more "lectronics", like a temp probe, PID, SSR. But going with the "cheapest" approach, you could simply heat your strike with the element over the side, pop in the bag or basket with grains and/or DME/LME, mash (if needed) at whatever temp using a thermometer and turning on/off the element, pull the bag/basket, and boil. To see what a boil coil is versus a heating element, etc. go here: https://www.brewhardware.com/category_s/1832.htmhttps://www.brewhardware.com/category_s/1832.htm
 
The 120V 10 gal BoilCoil pulls 2250 watts, anyone know of a good 2500-3000 watt temp controller?
 
iijakii said:
Boil coil is just spendy is all. Also why are you wanting a false bottom when doing BIAB?

What I highlighted in red can significantly sway the cost and complexity on this. Are you looking to have this semi-automated and hold temps for you? Or you wanting to brew kinda like propane where you manually heat up your water, turn it off, then back on to boil?
Click to expand...

A temp controller would be nice, 1000 watt ones are like $40, but I can't find anything else bigger......I guess I could just plug in the wall manually but that wasn't what I was hoping for.

The false bottom would keep the bag from being scorched on the heating element.
 
ZmannR2 said:
A temp controller would be nice, 1000 watt ones are like $40, but I can't find anything else bigger......I guess I could just plug in the wall manually but that wasn't what I was hoping for.

The false bottom would keep the bag from being scorched on the heating element.
Click to expand...

Not certain, but I think you need to read up on temperature control for brewing a little more. Sounds like you are thinking you can plug a reptile controller in or the like? That won't work. The setup most people use is a temp probe connected to a PID controller like the ones Auberin or Love make. The PID controller then controls a solid state relay (SSR) to turn the power on and off to a heating element to make the wort the temperature you set on the PID. Check the electric brewing section on here as there are LOTS of examples of these type systems, and they can become quite elaborate...good luck!
 
Cheap is all in the eye of the beerholder. Some would claim that two 20 amp, 110 volt circuits would be the cheapest way to go. In my case, I found pulling 10 gauge to a 220 volt spa panel to be about the same overall cost and gives me more flexibility in the way I brew. I can easily go to a 10 gallon brew from my 5-gallon system with the same power supply. If you stay with 110 volts, you start to limit the amount of beer you can brew and futureability. However, that is your choice alone to make.

For raw cost consideration, an aluminum pot from someplace like Staples, yes I know, Staples, for around fifty bucks plus a Ultra high-density element installed in that pot for around $50 plus a PID, Auburn is probably your best bet there especially if you get the one with the potentiometer already built them.

A solid state relay is mandatory when using a PID, expect to pay $10-25 on a good one.

Regretfully you are really talking about a modular system and anything you add to it for convenience or for controllability will add to the cost. Regretfully you are really talking about a modular system and anything you add to it for convenience or for controlability will add to the cost. They are few packaged ready to go brew systems available that are truly affordable, you need to do the research and be patient with our answers since you asked a wide open question with hardened bias for and against manufacturers, etc.
 
ZmannR2 said:
Hey if theres cheaper heating elements, I'm all for it!
Click to expand...
The boilcoil is the absolute most expensive option.... Any other option will be cheaper... You can get 1650w , 1800 w and 2000w 120v elements much cheaper from a store that sells them on ebay. Or if you prefer American made elements brew hardware is a great option.
Whatever you go with my suggestion is you look for ULWD (ultra low watt density) elements.. These are more likely not to have any scorching situations and might be able to have the bag rest on them, I'm not sure.. Hopefully others will chime in on that.
 
Firewalker11 said:
Cheap is all in the eye of the beerholder. Some would claim that two 20 amp, 110 volt circuits would be the cheapest way to go. In my case, I found pulling 10 gauge to a 220 volt spa panel to be about the same overall cost and gives me more flexibility in the way I brew. I can easily go to a 10 gallon brew from my 5-gallon system with the same power supply. If you stay with 110 volts, you start to limit the amount of beer you can brew and futureability. However, that is your choice alone to make.

For raw cost consideration, an aluminum pot from someplace like Staples, yes I know, Staples, for around fifty bucks plus a Ultra high-density element installed in that pot for around $50 plus a PID, Auburn is probably your best bet there especially if you get the one with the potentiometer already built them.

A solid state relay is mandatory when using a PID, expect to pay $10-25 on a good one.

Regretfully you are really talking about a modular system and anything you add to it for convenience or for controllability will add to the cost. Regretfully you are really talking about a modular system and anything you add to it for convenience or for controlability will add to the cost. They are few packaged ready to go brew systems available that are truly affordable, you need to do the research and be patient with our answers since you asked a wide open question with hardened bias for and against manufacturers, etc.
Click to expand...
I agree with this... I also found it cheaper to run a 30a 240v circuit (which doesn't even have to be done if you have a dryer outlet near where you can brew.)

Also as far as the biased thing... Very true... For one I'm not the biggest fan of auberins because they resell a lot of generic stuff at higher markups but they do support and help when purchasing and that's worth more to some than others.

I will throw my opinion in that the mypin pids are a great choice at only $30 the td4-snr has the manual mode for controlling a steady boil.
As already stated though, there's no NEED for a controller at all if your setup is matched to the max output of power meaning 2 120v elements can run at full power to boil 6-5 gallons at a steady boil with no controller by just plugging it into the wall... The controller would only be useful for either controlling temps for mash if recirculating with a pump or as a toy to have the convenience of switches with cool Bing factor...

I did biuld my budget build linked below with the goals of being able to upgrade as my budget and knowledge of what I wanted and needed grew..
 
My $.02, if you're looking for the absolute cheapest solution:

Whether you go 120 or 240, just pick up a hot water heater element (FAR cheaper than the boil coil) and your choice of housing for its electronics - theelectricbrewery.com has a pretty fantastic walkthrough for making an inexpensive and safe housing, or there are a few vendors who sell ready made ones pretty cheaply. Between the housing and the element, it should be far less expensive than the boil coil.

Then, for a controller, look into stilldragon.com - they've got a rheostat-based controller (think like the power knob on an electric stovetop) that you can easily wire for either 120 or 240, and it'll run you $38 plus shipping (plus the hour or two it takes to assemble their kit).

Whether you go with the boil coil or an element like this, if you install a false bottom tall enough to clear said element, you're sacrificing a LOT of capacity in your kettle. You should be able to, with just a little experimentation, determine an effective way to hang your bag inside your kettle in such a way that it won't contact the element. If you're dead set on the false bottom, that may be your single most expensive individual component - as false bottoms with that kind of height on them, plus their support system, can be pricey. Someone also mentioned one of the brew-in-a-basket vendors out there that may be a better solution than the false bottom for roughly the same cost...
 
I too use a mypin pid, td4-snr but have a 10000 watt SCR from China for the boil, SUPER CHEAP! I just would not do it any other way myself.

s-l500.jpg
 
ZmannR2 said:
OK, I guess I'm confused to all hell here. Isn't a boil coil just a hot element that is mounted in the bottom of your kettle that makes water boil? Whats all this recirculation stuff? I figured a simple controller of some type was all that was needed.

All I want is a pot with a heating element inside it to boil water, a false bottom that sits right above it and something to turn on and off the heating coil when the desired temp is reached
Click to expand...
Then you sir,are looking for my exact setup AND its for 10 gallon batches.Temp control is all you really need to make great beer.Everything else is bells and whistles. $600 start to finish including pot,maybe a little less. 240 plugged into dryer.

20160404_131429.jpg
 
"Cheapest Electric Set up" for 5 gallon batches in a 10 gallon kettle.

Return the false bottom, purchase 2 1500w 120v elements and install in kettle.

Using 2 separate 120v GFI circuits plug elements in to heat / boil. Wire switches in line if you like.

HWD elements are about 10 bucks at Home Depot.
 
wilserbrewer said:
"Cheapest Electric Set up" for 5 gallon batches in a 10 gallon kettle.

Return the false bottom, purchase 2 1500w 120v elements and install in kettle.

Using 2 separate 120v GFI circuits plug elements in to heat / boil. Wire switches in line if you like.

HWD elements are about 10 bucks at Home Depot.
Click to expand...
I stand corrected...That's pretty damn cheap. Maybe a little to cheap,temp control is nice to have
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
temp control is nice to have
Click to expand...


I thought this thread was about cheap, an old coat or blanket to thro over the mash is likely free, much cheaper than "temp control"
:)
Cheers

The vast majority of home brewers practice manual temp control, once electric heat is employed everyone thinks temp control is needed....I find it odd....
 
OP, I do biab in a keggle and I keep the bag off the bottom of the keggle using an upside down stainless strainer/colander. I cut out a piece of the strainer where it needs to clear my pickup tube to reach the bottom. You could do the same to clear straight part of the heating element near the side of your kettle. Could save you some cash.
 
Awesome.....OK, looking further into this it looks like I may go this route using some ideas in here. I definitly want a coil with Ultra low watt density so as not to scorch the wort,

followed by this for controlling:

10000W SCR $26

71kKZR9XwtL._SL1200_.jpg


TD4-SNR + SSR-40DA

419acJBzV0L.jpg



Now to find the right coil
 
So just to be clear, the rectifier is needed so that the pid/ssr isn't turning on and off a full boar load? Like why have a need to dial it back if the relay is cutting it off automatically?
 
ZmannR2 said:
So just to be clear, the rectifier is needed so that the pid/ssr isn't turning on and off a full boar load? Like why have a need to dial it back if the relay is cutting it off automatically?
Click to expand...
You don't want the td4,mypin has a different one with manual mode eliminating the adjustment knob you listed.
 
ZmannR2 said:
The one I ordered is the ta4. Should I cancel?
Click to expand...
I think I confused the 2,sorry about that. Now I'm rushing to get the correct info.In a quick look to correct myself it looks like the TD4 is the one with manual mode and the Ta4 doesn't. Do a quick search before you cancel.
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
I think I confused the 2,sorry about that. Now I'm rushing to get the correct info.In a quick look to correct myself it looks like the TD4 is the one with manual mode and the Ta4 doesn't. Do a quick search before you cancel.
Click to expand...

The TD4 is the one with manual mode not the ta4...
 
ZmannR2 said:
So just to be clear, the rectifier is needed so that the pid/ssr isn't turning on and off a full boar load? Like why have a need to dial it back if the relay is cutting it off automatically?
Click to expand...

If your using a mypin td4 with and SSR and temp probe that scr unit is not needed... its an alternative for manual mode only to control the element like a knob on a stove.. With the scr you dont have the ability to set a certain temp and hold it there automatically which you may or may not want depending on how you plan to brew...
 
ZmannR2 said:
Ok I see. I did switch to the td4 w/manual control. I'll cancel the scr
Click to expand...

Here is the scoop on the manual mode. You hit boil and drop the temp to keep it from over boiling, the boil stops so you bring it up again, it hits the boil and the hot break shoots up over the pot lip.

The SCR is for instant boil control, a cooler SSR and better control of a hard boil. These guys are mad-wizards at the manual control on their PIDs but I'm not and like the infinite control of a SCR over a boil over any day of the week. :rockin:
 
Firewalker11 said:
Here is the scoop on the manual mode. You hit boil and drop the temp to keep it from over boiling, the boil stops so you bring it up again, it hits the boil and the hot break shoots up over the pot lip.

The SCR is for instant boil control, a cooler SSR and better control of a hard boil. These guys are mad-wizards at the manual control on their PIDs but I'm not and like the infinite control of a SCR over a boil over any day of the week. :rockin:
Click to expand...
This has never happened to me once. Theres only 3 times I touch the PID the entire brew day:

Set to mash temp
After mash out set to 100% power on manual mode
Set to 75% when Boil starts to gat a rolling boil.
Never had an issue
 
JONNYROTTEN said:
This has never happened to me once. Theres only 3 times I touch the PID the entire brew day:

Set to mash temp
After mash out set to 100% power on manual mode
Set to 75% when Boil starts to gat a rolling boil.
Never had an issue
Click to expand...

I do the same only I use auto mode to get to 207 degrees with alarm so I dont have to babysit.
 

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