Champagne yeast

[martyjmc]

I'm brewing an imperial stout and it says to add champagne yeast after 10 to 14 days in a secondary fermenter. Is this really needed?

 

[smokinghole]

Are you adding plain sugar to build the ABV? If not then no you don't need to.

 

[martyjmc]

Are you adding plain sugar to build the ABV? If not then no you don't need to.

No I am not adding sugar. 12 pounds of lme and some specialty grains for steeping.

 

[smokinghole]

The reason being the champagne yeast will not ferment any further than your ale yeast in terms of attenuation with out sucrose/fructose/glucose sugars being added. I do often times add champagne yeast at bottling though as $0.90 insurance for carbonation of high alcohol belgians.

 

[spearko520]

what yeast are you using in the primary?

 

[Qhrumphf]

The only thing I could think of is if the yeast strain with the kit couldn't handle the alcohol level. But unless the batch size is smaller than 5 gallons I don't really see it being a problem. High gravity beer, for sure, but within the range of most yeast strains I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[martyjmc]

The yeast is white labs British ale WL005. The starting gravity is 1.080 and yes it's a five gallon batch.

 

[spearko520]

i don't know how low you will go with that strain, FG wise (not super dry)- but as far as the tolerance issue - i would think that should handle it. If it were me, i would not add the champagne yeast, esp if it's LME.

 

[smokinghole]

The primary yeast can take it, but further it doesn't matter whether or not he adds the champagne at the end. It won't do anything except assist in bottle conditioning. The champagne yeast lacks the necessary enzymes to ferment sugars much past maltose (which it's rather poor at fermenting) left behind by ale and lager yeasts.

 

[spearko520]

agreed- you would have to use something else to clean up what's left- i've only used that one a couple times, but both beers did not get down very low and were pretty sweet.

 

[Qhrumphf]

I wouldn't want it to finish low anyway. Imperial Stouts are one of those I WANT to finish in the mid low to mid 20's.

 

[spearko520]

also agreed - i guess the champagne yeast in the secondary is puzzling

 

[hopcop]

I'm in the same situation. I have an Imperial IPA sitting at 1.008 after 3 weeks. This beast is a 14.6%ABV. I used my house yeast to start. It was a 6L starter 4th generation of 1056. I then added a 2L starter of WLP099 with a SG:1.030 and added 4#dextrose in 1# increments for four days. I mashed at 150*F for 60mins. Batch Sparged. Fermented nicely at 64*F since. I'm wondering if I can just bottle since the WLP099 can handle up to 25%ABV? I've put a lot of time and care to not get it carbonated. Any thoughts might help. I thought about getting the champagne yeast but don't know if it's necessary.

Cheers

 

[spearko520]

i think the 099 is better than the champagne yeast. i used champagne yeasts on high ABV's 15 years ago- let the 099 work it. i've got a 17 percenter (w 099 as secondary) that has been in bottles for 5 months and is just starting to foam. Go mountainhawks!

 

[hopcop]

i think the 099 is better than the champagne yeast. i used champagne yeasts on high ABV's 15 years ago- let the 099 work it. i've got a 17 percenter (w 099 as secondary) that has been in bottles for 5 months and is just starting to foam. Go mountainhawks!

This is what I was thinking too. When you say 5 months for foam, does that mean it's taken that long to carb? Or just starting to keep a head?

Cheers.

 

[spearko520]

carb

 

[JLem]

If you're looking to get a lower FG, a better option would be to add an active lager yeast. Lager yeasts can ferment maltotriose, which neither ale nor champagne yeasts can. Champagne yeasts can't ferment more than most ale yeasts, but can tolerate adverse conditions better (eg low pH, low nutrient, high alcohol).

 

[martyjmc]

If the champagne yeast were used would it change the flavor or harm the beer in anyway?

 

[JLem]

If the champagne yeast were used would it change the flavor or harm the beer in anyway?

Won't harm the beer, but could affect flavor if added early enough. The more it is allowed to ferment the more it will contribute to the flavor. If you add it near the end of fermentation, it won't have much, if any, effect.

 

[martyjmc]

I'm thinking about putting this one in my secondary fermenter because we had an unusual hot spell and it got way too hot at the early stage of fermenting. I will leave it in secondary for about four months or more and might add the champagne yeast anyway. What are your thoughts.

 

[JLem]

I'm thinking about putting this one in my secondary fermenter because we had an unusual hot spell and it got way too hot at the early stage of fermenting. I will leave it in secondary for about four months or more and might add the champagne yeast anyway. What are your thoughts.

Adding additional yeast after an extended secondary is often a good idea. This will ensure you have healthy yeast for bottle conditioning.

 

[martyjmc]

Adding additional yeast after an extended secondary is often a good idea. This will ensure you have healthy yeast for bottle conditioning.

Ok well said and Ty for all the help.