champagne yeast does not work.

[andrew_YSK]

Hii,

I am trying to make glutonous rice wine, purchased the "yeast" from asian market, the "white cookie / powder" broke rice down into sugar. I have measured, it is 40%, very sweet to taste. But it just does not ferment.. the sweetness always there. I tried to put the champage yeast into it, it only last 2 days, before bubbles stopped. why ? is it too sweet (40%) for champage yeast ?

 

[Birrofilo]

If memory serves, rice will not give many sugars to your yeast. For what I know, you have to convert the starches into sugar first. You normally do this with a culture of Aspergillus oryzae. Or maybe with some specific enzymes. Once you have converted the starches into sugars, then you call the yeast in action.

I have never worked with rice, somebody will give you more complete information.

If I understand your 40% sugar content, you mean 40 °B, which corresponds to a relative density (which is the measure homebrewers are most familiar with) of 1,179 or in simple terms "huge".

I don't know your yeasts, but if they are like mines, they want more water (less density) and especially they want sugars they can feed on.

You should look around for sake I don't know whether this site is the right one, sake is a very specific and complicated thing. Some people are fine with making a "sugar wash" with some rice in it, so that it takes the perfume of rice, but it's not the same thing and I don't think you want to do that.

 

[andrew_YSK]

Wonderful Birrofilo,
That "huge" is the only answer i have being waiting to hear.. So that is the reason why it does not work on yeast.

One more question, i hav use amalyze enzyme (the rice wine cake) on the rice.. that's why it is so super sweet (almost drop my teeth when i taste it each time). Does this sweetness meant the starch has turned to sugar ? i have filtered out the rice pulp and throw it away already by now, so what left just liquid.. sweet liquid.

 

[Birrofilo]

One more question, i hav use amalyze enzyme (the rice wine cake) on the rice.. that's why it is so super sweet (almost drop my teeth when i taste it each time). Does this sweetness meant the starch has turned to sugar ?

Yes, that's amylase, an enzyme for which many variants exist (such as alpha or beta and others, and probably each of them being a "family" of enzymes). Starch is not sweet to most people, while simple sugars are always perceived as sweet, so if that's super-sweet, that means the enzymes did their job properly.

You should dilute your wort to something around 1,040, or 10 °Brix, for a normal yeast to be happy. What you have can be described as "jam"

 

[andrew_YSK]

Yes, that's amylase, an enzyme for which many variants exist (such as alpha or beta and others, and probably each of them being a "family" of enzymes). Starch is not sweet to most people, while simple sugars are always perceived as sweet, so if that's super-sweet, that means the enzymes did their job properly.

You should dilute your wort to something around 1,040, or 10 °Brix, for a normal yeast to be happy. What you have can be described as "jam"

You are a wonder person, helped me. May God blesses you.

 

[mashpaddled]

If the goal here is to make something to run through a still then you need to dilute with water, ferment and then when you distill you'll leave the water behind.

 

[bracconiere]

if all you used is a amylase in a brew that was steeped at ~150f...then you need to add another enzyme to the fermenter to get it to ferment. it's called gluco, i learned that making rice beer myself...and man word of warning, rice beer that finishes from 1.060 to 1.040 will give you the squirts something feirce! i recomend against drinking it till it hits less then 1.010...

if you're trying to make tradtional rice wine, you need some koji spores...steamed rice...i've tried and failed...that's why i never earned my alcoholic black belt, but i will try again, when i'm wiser!

 

[pdxal]

@andrew_YSK How long ago did you put the original "white cookie / powder" into the rice? Most yeast balls contain a mixture of mold that breaks down the rice starch into sugar and yeast that ferments the sugar into alcohol. No extra yeast needed. You might check out the rice wine thread on here. Most don't remove the rice solids until filtering them out after 4-8+ weeks of fermentation.
Good luck.

 

[andrew_YSK]

I was making traditional rice wine, it should be as concentrate as possible (but not hinder fermentation), in it, this way it is a tonic for health, good for wives who just gave birth (rice wine added into chicken soup); so to provide warm to body. That's the way my grandma till my mother and my elder sister has always being using the rice wine after gave birth. We can drink it in moderate, not like drinking grape wine, beer... .

How long ago did you put the original "white cookie / powder" into the rice?
Most yeast balls contain a mixture of mold that breaks down the rice starch into sugar and yeast that ferments the sugar into alcohol. No extra yeast needed.
You might check out the rice wine thread on here. Most don't remove the rice solids until filtering them out after 4-8+ weeks of fermentation.
Good luck.

Thanks
I start to do the rice wine on 22nd of Dec 2020.
Then got stuck.. and i kept delaying to take action (because i don't know why it fail) , but constant check it up if it turns bad.
Yes, actually no need to pitch in extra yeast.

I did the same rice wine once (did 2 liter of rice wine only) many years ago, it did turn into sweet wine... lol but it takes long time.. i left it there for almost 1 year... it was sweet wine, full of thick aroma of rice wine.
That time i didn't filter the pulp.. but that time everything was working fine... fermenting away slowly.. this time it got stuck; no more bubble.

I have reason to suspect failture to ferment could be due to (at the beginning state) i accidentally made the heat matt too high (don't remember how much was it, but surely over 40c .. or 60c ), when i realized that, i turned it down immediately to 30c. I have no idea if the liquid inside has reached that high temperature or not... anyway, it was just within 4 hours of neglection; hence i thought should be no problem.

man word of warning, rice beer that finishes from 1.060 to 1.040 will give you the squirts something feirce! i recomend against drinking it till it hits less then 1.010...

Can you kindly explain what do you meant by "1.060 to 1.040 will give you the squirts something feirce!" ?? Did you meant it is too sweet ?

If the goal here is to make something to run through a still then you need to dilute with water, ferment and then when you distill you'll leave the water behind.

This is not relevant to me, because i don't do distill. But i am eager to know why need to dilute it with water than remove the water that i put in ? Why can't i just do it without additional water and distill it ? save my time isn't it ? **just asking**

 

[andrew_YSK]

You should dilute your wort to something around 1,040, or 10 °Brix, for a normal yeast to be happy. What you have can be described as "jam"

Hii Birrofilo,

I would like to ask if rice wine liquid can be measured with the same device that measure wine "specific gravity" ?

From what i understand, Specific gravity measurement system for wine has being in the sense - "calibrated" over the time, to measure the content of sugar in grape mash. A certain SG in the grape juice means a certain amount of sugar in the juice...(so can decide need to add in sugar by how much to do initial fermentation to achieve a desired ABV outcome.

But since rice fermentation liquid is of different liquid density than of grape juice and sugar mash..
Using the same SG system (as of grape wine)..does the SG shows the corrent amount of sugar of the rice fermenting liquid ?

Eg: maybe plain non-sweeten rice liquid itself is different than non-sweeten grape juice... in this case, how can one use SG properly for rice wine ?

 

[bracconiere]

Can you kindly explain what do you meant by "1.060 to 1.040 will give you the squirts something feirce!" ?? Did you meant it is too sweet ?

well when i was making rice beer at first with amylase, i didn't know i needed to use a tag team to get to ferment all the way. and i found out unfermentable dextrins are soluble fiber....

 

[Birrofilo]

Hii Birrofilo,

I would like to ask if rice wine liquid can be measured with the same device that measure wine "specific gravity" ?

From what i understand, Specific gravity measurement system for wine has being in the sense - "calibrated" over the time, to measure the content of sugar in grape mash. A certain SG in the grape juice means a certain amount of sugar in the juice...(so can decide need to add in sugar by how much to do initial fermentation to achieve a desired ABV outcome.

But since rice fermentation liquid is of different liquid density than of grape juice and sugar mash..
Using the same SG system (as of grape wine)..does the SG shows the corrent amount of sugar of the rice fermenting liquid ?

Eg: maybe plain non-sweeten rice liquid itself is different than non-sweeten grape juice... in this case, how can one use SG properly for rice wine ?

Specific gravity, or relative density, is simply a measurement of the mass of a certain volume of matter in comparison to the mass of the certain volume of another matter which you assume as the comparison unit, which is normally water.

When we say that a certain liquid has a specific gravity of 1,040 we only mean that, if the mass of a certain volume of water is 1, the mass of the same volume of the liquid is 1,040. This can also be expressed as saying that the liquid has "40 points" of specific gravity.

Those 40 points are composed of a mass which is not water. It can be sugars, or starches, or proteins, or maybe fats, or a little bit of any of those.
In the case of wine, the sugars present in the wine are entirely fermentable: they will all be digested by the yeast, in normal conditions, i.e. all converted into CO2 and various alcohols, which will result in a wine which is dry.
In the case of beer, the sugars present in the wort are not entirely fermentable: some of them will be converted into CO2 and alcohols, and some others, more complex, will not be converted and remain in your beer as "body", "maltosity".

That means that a certain gravity, such as 1,040, has a different "meaning" for different worts, because in wort A this can be composed of mostly fermentable sugars (which will give after fermentation a beer with more alcohol and less body) and wort B can be composed with a higher percentage of non fermentable sugars (which will give after fermentation a beer which has less alcohol and more "body" than wort A). The homebrewer controls the fermentability of the wort in the mashing phase (and, see below, by selecting a certain yeast).

Also, yeasts have different opinions regarding what they see as "food". Some yeast strains will digest more than others, so the same wort can end up with a lower final density with a more "voracious" yeast, and with a higher final density with a "less voracious" yeast. In the first case, the "attenuation" is higher than in the second case.

If you steep rice in water you get mostly starches, which are not considered food by any yeast. You must first convert the starches into sugars (simple sugars, more complex sugars, that depends of the mix of enzymes, the temperature etc.) and then give those sugars to your yeast, and depending on the yeast and the sugar, you will end up with a certain "attenuation" and a certain residual density.

For wine and sake you want normally to end up with total real attenuation, no sugars left. For beer, you don't want that, you always want some "maltosity", some residual density, unless you are preparing a beer for distillation.

The instrument you use is the same and the meaning, the density, is the same.

If you want sweet wine, you must have more sugar in your wort than your yeast can digest (or you must stop fermentation before the yeast has eaten all the sugars). Yeast normally get drunk and go to sleep when the alcohol content reaches a certain threshold, which is different from strain to strain. Wine yeasts have a higher alcohol tolerance than beer yeast in general.

 

[Birrofilo]

I see that you want to make a strong and sweet wine. That means finding a yeast which is very alcohol tolerant.

See this calculator: Home Distillation of Alcohol (Homemade Alcohol to Drink)

This is a calculator for a "sugar wash", a wort which is made of sugar and water (plus something else), but should work for any wort because the alcohol is calculated from the "density" which disappeared, because it was transformed into CO2 and alcohols according to predictable laws.

If you start with an original density of 1,090, which is high, and end up with a density of 0,980, you will have a 14,19 % ABV wine, if your yeast managed to arrive up to that point.
If your yeast cannot go past 13% ABV, then you'll have a 13% sweet wine, because there will be sugars left in your wine. If your yeast cannot go past 11% ABV, you will have a very sweet 11% ABV wine.

 

[andrew_YSK]

Specific gravity, or relative density, is simply a measurement of the mass of a certain volume of matter in comparison to the mass ....... Wine yeasts have a higher alcohol tolerance than beer yeast in general.

Thank you for the super detailed and easy understood info.. benefited from the good concise info.

Finally, I have tested my wort, and i couldn't help but laugh!
See here:
I did a measurement of weight and volume (just for the sake of complete)
1.
450ml of rice liquid = 500 gram.
Hence density of rice liquid is 1.11 kg/L, heavier than water. (**of course heavier than water, got sugar stuff in it, just don't know how much is the "yeast consumable sugar stuff" in it. )
2.
brix measurement: 41.3% brix (i think the repeatability of my brix meter is not that great), i used to get 40% brix for this liquid.
3.
hydrometer measurement: OUT OF CHART! it is floating below the chart,
but to estimate the SG, it should be on 1.140SG scale.

According to your defination of SG value, it is just "a measure of change" of the same liquid , so i might still can use this hydrometer on this liquid, use " estimation by distance".

Now my only query is, how do i dilute it (since the density of the liquid is not the same as wine), if i add in too much water, i would have a watery final product.
My goal for rice wine is for tonic , which should be as pure and concentrated as possible, but still wine; not sugary water (which is not good for health)

 

[Birrofilo]

Now my only query is, how do i dilute it (since the density of the liquid is not the same as wine), if i add in too much water, i would have a watery final product.
My goal for rice wine is for tonic , which should be as pure and concentrated as possible, but still wine; not sugary water (which is not good for health)

I think you'll have to revise some of your notions about "good for health" and "watery" and "concentrated".

The more water you put in your wort, the more you will obtain a dry wine.
The less water you put in your wort, the more you will obtain a sweet wine, because you will work against your yeast.

Your yeast can do a certain work of digesting sugars, up to a certain point. When the wort is very dense (lots of sugars) the yeast is stressed: lots of unhealthy congeners, which stink and are not good for you. And after a certain ABV the yeast just refuses to go to work.

If you try to keep your wort very sweet because you want a "concentrated" wine, you will obtain either no fermentation (no alcohol), or a dirty fermentation (unhealthy and stinking congeners) and in any case an incomplete fermentation (sweet wine).

I have no experience about rice wine and about the yeast you are using.

In order to have a strong and dry wine you have to use a yeast strain which is able to ferment up to a high alcohol content (let's say, 14%) AND you have to use a density that will let you with no residual sugars when you reach 14%. You need a yeast that will give you 100% real attenuation.

E.g if you lower the density of your wort to 1,080 and you ferment it and your yeast finish at 0,980 you should have a dry wine with 12,9% alcohol.

You cannot just raise the sugar content and think that you will have a higher ABV in your wine, because your yeast might not be able to reach that alcohol concentration, it will stop working when there is still a lot of residual sugar in your wort, and the result will be a sweet, and stinking, wine.

It is possible to "cheat" (have a search for "turbo yeast") but what you obtain normally is dirty fermentation, full of congeners, which is not what you want.

If you want a high-alcohol content the only natural and clean way to get that is to distill your wine.

Forget all the old-wives tales about "tonic", and "good for neo-mothers" etc. Alcohol is not a tonic and is no better for neo mothers than for neo-fathers . And it is absolutely good for health in wise quantity, for everybody, in any phase of their life.

 

[andrew_YSK]

The more water you put in your wort, the more you will obtain a dry wine.
The less water you put in your wort, the more you will obtain a sweet wine, because you will work against your yeast.

You post is always an anspiring. I never thought to put it this way.

Forget all the old-wives tales about "tonic", and "good for neo-mothers" etc. Alcohol is not a tonic and is no better for neo mothers than for neo-fathers . And it is absolutely good for health in wise quantity, for everybody, in any phase of their life.

Older folks is healthier than people of this age, due to the lifestyle and dietary:
Hmm, I think what you said regarding this aspect is true as well, (i am a open minded person as well in this info era), but older folks has being using home made rice wine for long time.. and their health are superb as compare to us nowaday (i know our air is polluted and food is poisoned, tap water is fluorided etc.., even store bought wine has got addictive like Campden tablet etc... things that is not nessacery good for us, "better without".
But to say the truth, my grandma was fine doing gardening at the age of 90, and lived 102 years old before breathed her last ... my mother is healthier than me... i would like to contribute all those health to the food they took and their lifestyle, one of them is rice wine and ginger in cooking, especially after maternity.

Grain brewed alcohol is healthier:
I think drink alcohol chemically is the same, be it rice brewed, or store bought.. it is the "things" that suspend in the liquid with the alcohol that has the goodness in them. Else why should old folk doing rice wine (japanese, korean, chinese), why not just do fruit wine , like grape wine and such.. ?
Recently i have came across and article comparing beer to wine.. and the final conclusion of the article is "beer is healthier than wine".




"Cocktailling" (mixing) distilled high ABV alcohol with unfermented stuff/ stucked fermentation
I have always wondering in my mind, if i just purchase "spirit ghost" (they claimed 95% alcohol), and add into my sweet rice juice in good balance of "let's say" 25%ABV of final mixture.. is that also considered "good sweet rice alcohol with decent alcohol" ?
One of my garden old neigbour used to give me a gift. A thick sweet wine with mouthful of raspberry aroma. It is very aromatic, but also very sweet and high alcohol as well.
My brother in law who happen to be a show chef, missed that drink so so much. I like it as well.
Finally he told me, that was just a mix of raspberry juice with store bought distilled alcohol. **i think he fermented the raspberry to sweet wine, then increase the ABV with store bought alcohol. This thing stores very well; and it taste is very "round". After around 4 years, it is still as fragrantful as when i got it.


Distilled grain alcohol = distilled grape wine ?? nutrient wise
I would like to believe distilled alcohol is least nutrition. Do you agree with me on this one ?
Since it went thru distillation , all those good stuff were left behind.. only alcohol stuff being condensed... isn't that make no different between grain alcohol or moonshine ? No body would do a distillation on own brewed rice wine, are they ?

 

[andrew_YSK]

Ok, i need your advice again, thing does not work out as i thought it would.

Yesterday, 11st feb at 17:00pm I hydrated 1.76g of yeast (the remaining from what i purchased recently) added to 0.5 tbs brown sugar + a little of warm water

At 20:00pm i saw the thick bubble forming on yeast. Hence pitched the liquid yeast into a small portion of diluted rice wort.

The measurement taken after yeast pitched : 11.4% Brix, 1.050SG
Until this morning, i still see no bubbling action at all in the wort.
Note: room temperature is 20.5c.

Why it has got no buble at all even when i have hydrated the yeast to make sure they are alive and active, and diluted the "jam" to acceptable range ?

Your help is very much needed.
Thx

Pls refer to the attached photos.
The big jar of liquid is the undiluted wort.. "jam"
The other 2 photos are the same jar, of small portion of diluted wort + hydrated yeast. (11.4% Brix, 1.050SG)

Yeast info:
https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Steinberg-Arauner-Kitzinger-Natural-Alcohol/dp/B01MCYZLSB/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=kitzinger+Reinhefe+-+steinberg&qid=1613120926&sr=8-1
kitzinger Reinhefe - steinberg
5grams is suitable for 10-50liter of wort.
hydrate 5grams yeast mix with 125ml (30 - 35 deg c) warm water for 2 - 3 hrs
Then mix the hydrated yeast liquid to the wort (the different in temperature should not be more than 2 deg c.
Best to ferment the wort at 15 - 20c
It claims:
This yeast has a high alcohol tolerance.
5 g of "Steinberg" dry yeast. "Steinberg" yeast is ideal for fruity white wines. At temperatures of 19 to 23 °C and under optimum conditions, it guarantees a high final attenuation and a high alcohol tolerance of up to 16%. It is ideal for white and red grape musts, but also for fruity mashes.

 

[Birrofilo]

@andrew_YSK

Some answers first to your post #16.

Where do you come from? Some Asiatic country? You see, people don't do rice wine here in Europe. Too much fruit around

Older folks living long: I believe this is due to the most active lifestyle: working in the orchard, in the vegetable garden. Some people believe, and I with them, that the longevity of Asian people is due to the higher consumption of fermented food, Kimchi and similar.

For what I remember, Italy ranks second in world longevity after Japan. If 2+2=4, wine is good for you!

Any alcoholic beverage is composed of three classes of substances:

a) water coming from the original wort: that's the "broth" of the rice, the fruit, the beer. There is nothing in there which was not present in the original cereal or fruit;

Then you have the products of the fermentation, which are made by the yeast (if we exclude the formation of aromatic esters)

b) Ethanol: that's a chemical compound, C2H6O. That molecule is the same whichever the origin. All ethanol is ethanol, regardless whether it came from grain or fruit, from rice or barley. Ethanol is "tasteless" in the way that water is "tasteless". Water is not "tasteless" but you know what I mean. Water as the chemical molecule H2O is the same in fruit, in meat, in vegetables. It is always H2O. By the same token, all ethanol is ethanol.

c) "Congeners": those are the "other alcohols", different from ethanol. You can find many dozens different congeners in a fermentation. They are all present in very small percentage. Some 90% of total alcohol or even more is ethanol. The rest is "congeners". Some congeners are "tasteless" (e.g. methanol) some other have a very distinctive taste, which can be recognized in 1 part per billion concentration.

Alcohols and acid can form esters, which again can be very distinctive.

All those congeners are formed by the yeast activity. Yeast will produce more congeners when they are stressed by a high density wort, and will produce different congeners at different temperatures.

The different worts (rice, barley, fruit) can affect the fermentation due to the different composition: pectines in fruit will create more methanol, the content of various minerals and oligoelements can influence the fermentation. Yet, I think it is unwarrented to say that wine from rice is healthier than wine from fruit or sugar.

The 95% alcohol you find in shops can be distilled from grain or from sugar. I wouldn't mind, but I would mind the taste. A proper 95% alcohol should taste "neutral", i.e. should have no hints of any aroma besides the very slight aroma of ethanol. I don't think it is easy, or cheap, to find good neutral.

If you want to reinforce your rice wine with alcohol, I suggest you use vodka. That's either "neutral" (Stolichnaya has a fame for that) or have a slight cereal taste. Moskovskaya has a distinctive cereal perfume. Smirnoff N. 12 which is sold in Italy (and is distilled in Cuneo) has a distinctive rice flair. You would like that!

Yet, the health benefit of drinking the rice wine with vodka in it is not different than from drinking the rice wine and the vodka separately.

 

[Birrofilo]

@andrew_YSK

Yeast must be much more than what you pitched.

For a 23 litres batch of 1,050 density it is normal to pitch 10 or 11 grams of dry yeast. You pitched less than 2 grams. Underpitching can result, when fermentation happen, which will take some days, in a "dirty" fermentation or in a "stuck" fermentation.

Optimally, dry yeast should be re-hydrated only with water, no sugar should be fed to dry yeast. The yeast cell is "asleep" while in dry state, it's in an unconscious state so to speak, and the membrane cannot properly filter and elaborate the substances from the liquid. Basically you risk killing many yeast cells through indigestion. Just hydrate the yeast and put it in your wort.

Depending on the wort, you might need to also add some nutrient to the wort (because the yeast need certain minerals or oligoelements that might not be present in your wort) and you might also need to watch and correct pH.

Barley wort doesn't need nutrient and pH watching, but other worts do, such as a sugar wash, and maybe also a rice wort.

 

[andrew_YSK]

Where do you come from? Some Asiatic country? You see, people don't do rice wine here in Europe. Too much fruit around

Came from Malaysia. You don't say, Tropical country such as malaysia and singapore got a lot more fruit.. whole years... no end to papaya, pineapple, lemon, citrus fruit, banana, star fruit, guava, .. no end to the list. , but ppl there just don't make fruit wine. They only make grain wine. Don't ask me why.. in my mind, grain wine is healthier.. that's why i never ask why no fruit wine. lol.
And may i know you are from europe ? I always think people in forum majority from USA

Smirnoff N. 12 which is sold in Italy (and is distilled in Cuneo) has a distinctive rice flair. You would like that!

Can find vodka Smirnoff N. 12, i think you meant Smirnoff N. 21.

Yet, the health benefit of drinking the rice wine with vodka in it is not different than from drinking the rice wine and the vodka separately.

I didn't meant mixing vodka with my rice liquid will make it more healthy..
As regarding to this issue, i was thinking it will help stablize the rice part of liquid.. else, it will spoil without sufficient alcohol in it. ...But, just saying only, i won't do such thing as to buy expensive alcohol for mixing.. just not right, lol.

Optimally, dry yeast should be re-hydrated only with water, no sugar should be fed to dry yeast.

I saw article from internet, that people use this method to "enlarge the colony of yeast", using the sugar and water method, to create more active and bigger colony of yeast.., slowly introduce the yeast to the wort before pitching in.
As for me, i was just testing out if the yeast will work in the diluted rice wort. Don't want to pitch a whole bunch of yeast into the wort and ruin the wort if it does nothing.
As i have mentioned before, i have tried to dump 3.5g of the same yeast into the wort (that time i didn't dilute the wort) before, and they did nothing.., hence i am taking precaution with small portion of diluted wort to make sure it bubble.

[

Barley wort doesn't need nutrient and pH watching, but other worts do, such as a sugar wash, and maybe also a rice wort.

How do i know if i need to add in neutrient ?
I have brandnew Yeast nutrient from Wilko : purchased 2018, never know how to use. - Don't want to dump unknown stuff into wine and drink it myself.
As for PH, i can measure it.
Just measure with Litmus paper.. it is about PH 3.5

This is from the undiluted wort. I would say it is about PH4

So, the more i add boiled spring water the more acidic is ?? or is it because the yeast that i pitched in last night has got something to do with the acidity difference ?

 

[Birrofilo]

@andrew_YSK

I'm from Rome, Italy. You can see that in the "Location:" line under my avatar.

Yes, Smirnoff n. 21, not 12. But the one you find might come from a different distillery and therefore be slightly different.

The cheapest way to have cheap alcohol is to distill it at home from sugar. That's what I do . But I think that in a Muslim country that might be a bit risky. All over the Western world is generally speaking illegal, but also generally speaking not really risky. Not in Europe at the very least.

If your rice wine reaches 12 - 16 % ABV should preserve very well, without any need to reinforce it.

Yes you can make a "starter" to increase a culture of yeast, and you would use DME preferably rather than sugar, but you do this with yeast which is already in his "wet", liquid form. Dry yeast (dehydrated yeast) should be given only water. When it becomes "liquid" yeast, then you can give it sugar and reproduce it.

The general pitching "rule of thumb" is a billion cell for each liter for each degree Brix.
If you have let' say 1 litre at 10 Brix, you would need 10 billions yeast cells. 20 litres at 10 Brix, 200 billions cells.

A well-preserved fresh dry yeast has 6 billion cells per gram. I don't know how much wort you pitched with it.

I don't know if you have to add a nutrient because I have never fermented rice. If you were given some kind of "kit" (with enzymes, or a culture of Aspergillus oryzae, and yeast) then the kit should contain the nutrients, or you should not need them.

 

[andrew_YSK]

But I think that in a Muslim country that might be a bit risky.

Yes, those who hold the power wants control.. because alcohol is good money..
But as for my mom, we do it for own consumption and sometime as gift for neigbour who gave birth. Sadly my mom only did red rice wine twice in her life.. and she also just know how to do it according to what other ppl told her (without knowledge of why how and nor have the knowledge to troubleshoot if stuck)

By the way, not all dweller in malaysia are Malay.. I am not malay nor muslim.. I am christian.. My grandparent escaped from china during the chaotic time to Malaysia... **just to catchup with japanese occupation of malaysia** pretty hard life.. those japanese army will just take whatever they saw.. be it chicken, duck... lol
Grateful to the Jesus Christ , protected us thru the hard time.

A well-preserved fresh dry yeast has 6 billion cells per gram. I don't know how much wort you pitched with it.

The diluted wort is between 100ml to 200ml that i pitched the yeast to try out.

I don't know if you have to add a nutrient because I have never fermented rice. If you were given some kind of "kit" (with enzymes, or a culture of Aspergillus oryzae, and yeast) then the kit should contain the nutrients, or you should not need them.

My mother never use any nutrient at all.. just the yeast and bit of water.. that's all.

This is the dry powder i have purchased from asian store, the one that has got amalyse enzyme, that convert rice starch to sweet liquid.
No idea if it got yeast or not. it didn't mention.. (why then it says to make rice wine if got no yeast in it ? bad products! )

After i realized it didn't ferment, i purchased this :
It says "dry"
It looks just like any other dry yeast..

 

[andrew_YSK]

Btw, just for the completeness of info,
My mom use this kind of yeast when use made red rice yeast, the wine is red cooking wine.. very red, even all the pulp became red color.. the aroma of it is fragrantful red cooking wine.. not for casual drinking.. i guess taste is totally diff than that of grape wine.
I purchased this package from store while i was at malaysia.. can't purchase here in Gemany.

zoomed in, it is kind of like rice grain with deep color.

And also this package of green moldy dried rice was a gift from a friend from china.
It is made by an old chinese, all the knowledge and secret is with the old guy.
This is what chinese use to make "yellow rice wine", also for cooking, (smell and taste is not same as red rice wine).
That's it.. no nutrient, no PH adjust.. nothing! just as simple as mix that bag of moldy grain in.

I have always thinking maybe i can multiply the yeast and mold with more glutonous rice, and dehydrate the colonized grain so that i can continue to have supply to make more rice wine without having to fly to malaysia stock up.

 

[Birrofilo]

Acidity is probably to high (pH too low).

I don't think I can help you further because I never did any rice wine.

Rice wine is not easy. That's why I am not doing it. I like it a lot! (we call it Sake). One day I will try that as well.

The Youtube channel Barley and Hops has a video for it, if memory serves.

Shops which specialize in provisions for Chinese Restaurants, and generally speaking Asian food shops, should certainly have all the ingredients. No need to fly to Malaysia.

 

[andrew_YSK]

Rice wine is not easy. That's why I am not doing it. I like it a lot! (we call it Sake). One day I will try that as well.

Yes, that Sake from Koji strain is something different.. that is good for drinking..

Actually making rice wine is not hard, as long as not got stuck like what i have here, it should be easy peasy.
I have ventured into something that not my mother have done.. because i didn't use the same yeast that my mom used, instead i tried those store bought white powder stuff (nobody know what that is.. chemically made enzyme or ???)
Now i got stuck... thats' where all problem arise.

Please share your experience if you ever come to try the grain wine.
I believe with all your fore knowledge, if you do it carefully, should be eazy

 

[Birrofilo]

instead i tried those store bought white powder stuff (nobody know what that is.. chemically made enzyme or ???)

The label says rhizopus oryzae, which is already not very reassuring because the Genus is always written in capital letters, so it should be Rhizopus oryzae

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rhizopus_oryzae
Basically that's rice which is inoculated with that fungus, which has the capability to produce the enzymes that split the starch molecules into simpler molecules (complex and simple sugars).

As with all that lives freshness is important, maybe the product was not very fresh, or was not well stored, and the fungi in it were not very lively.

 

[andrew_YSK]

Basically that's rice which is inoculated with that fungus, which has the capability to produce the enzymes that split the starch molecules into simpler molecules (complex and simple sugars).

The fungus inoculated dried rice are suppose to be like those that i showed in photo, should be in grain of rice.
But this that purchased from asian store are powder... white powder.. so pure white that it looks like chemical enzyme.
Even though it is real Rhizopus oryzae, still not enough, because there is no yeast in it, right ? How to make wine with fungus that convert starch into sugar, but not yeast that convert sugar into alcohol ? That's why i don't believe things from china. They often do one thing but say another thing.
Even me , as an chinese do not believe china, you know how bad china is.

 

[andrew_YSK]

I would like to propagate the green rice mold that my friend gave me as gift from china..
What woud you recommend ? do i need to spread those rice mold onto the cooked rice in aerobic or anaerobic condition ? If propagation works, i would be so happy , won't have to worry if i run out of stock. lol

 

[Birrofilo]

You need both things: a fungi culture or an enzyme in order to break the starch into sugars; a yeast in order to ferment the sugar.

For what I know, it is typical of rice wine that the two phases are performed simultaneously (while the fungus converts new starch, the yeast ferments the previously converted sugars, all in the same container). I don't think splitting the process into two different phases would create any harm though, and certainly many people do that.

Besides, if you let any sugar wash in the open air, it will probably ferment due to wild yeast in the air. That might give you a more complex but also less controllable and less predictable aromatic profile.

Most wine in Europe, for centuries, was produced with spontaneous fermentation (wild yeast in the air).