CDC guideline for 'No Rinse' (???) sanitizing with Chlorine Bleach ???

[Silver_Is_Money]

https://www.cdc.gov/disasters/bleach.html
Quoting this CDC source:

Food surfaces that may have touched flood water.
Examples: Countertops, plates.

1. Wash with soap and hot, clean water.
2. Rinse with clean water.
3. Sanitize in a solution of 1 tablespoon of household chlorine bleach in 1 gallon of clean water.
4. Allow to air dry.

Note carefully that the only recommendation for rinsing takes place before sanitizing with bleach.

CAUTION: I would not personally consider attempting this with any chlorine bleach that had ANY ingredients other than sodium hypochlorite and water. And I would also not consider attempting it with any bleach more concentrated in sodium hypochlorite than 5.25%. That leaves plain old generic bleach without any other ingredient additives and/or perfumes. This may (?) eliminate Clorox from consideration.

Putting this into mg/L (ppm) perspective:

1) If we take the liberty to presume (whereby to simplify this, such that ppm and mg/L equivalence has validity) that 5.25% bleach has a density of 1.00 grams/CC (with this admittedly going to be slightly off), we can presume that 1 measuring Tablespoon delivers 15 grams of 5.25% bleach.

2) 1 Gallon of distilled water = 3,785.4 mL ~= 3,785.4 grams of water. I'm recommending distilled or very high quality RO water here.

3) 15 grams of bleach added to 3,785.4 grams of water ~= 3,800 grams total (ignoring the 0.4)

4) 15 grams of 5.25% bleach = 15 x 0.0525 = 0.7875 grams of sodium hypochlorite

4) 0.7875/3,800 = X/1,000,000

5) Solving for 'X' gives us ~207 ppm bleach in water

WARNING: Other independent sources imply that ~80 ppm bleach should be considered nominally safe as no rinse, whereby the above CDC information suggests ~207 ppm (presuming my math is nominally correct within rounding and presumptions error). To be safe it may be wise to add only 5.8 mL of 5.25% plain/generic (no other additives or ingredients) bleach to 1 gallon of distilled water.

5.8 ml ÷ 15 mL = 0.38667
0.38337 x 207 ppm ~= 80 ppm

DISCLAIMER: I personally have no idea if bleach at ANY ppm concentration is safe for no rinse sanitizing use. Nor do I know how long an exposure time is required, sans that the CDC's advice is to let it air dry fully. Consider all of this as tentative speculation, and consider applying it only at your own risk.

 

[Beernik]

1 gallon = 256 tablespoons.
1 gallon + 1 tablespoon = 257 tablespoons.

Household bleach ≈ 5% chlorine = 50,000 ppm chlorine.
Diluted with 1 gallon = 195 ppm chlorine.

So, your math of ≈ 200ppm is correct.

I think the CDC’s recommended maximum concentration is 200ppm.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

5.25% of 1 million "parts" is 52,500 parts, or 52,500 parts in 1 million parts, or 52,500 ppm since:
1,000,000 x 0.0525 = 52,500

52,500 * 1/257 = 204.3 ppm

As long as density units and volume units are considered equivalent as to value for all of the constituents involved (which is the same method simplification 'cheat' that I was applying to begin with), that sure simplifies things!

Thanks @Beernik!!!

 

[TheMadKing]

FWIW a food service permit also requires a tub of bleach sanitizer at 150-200ppm concentration. I now know the reason... So food workers don't accidentally poison customers

 

[JJinMD]

Sure, a lot of commercial dishwashers use chlorine as the sanitizer, it is not rinsed. Commercial kitchens basically can choose high temp water, chlorine, iodine, or quaternary ammonium for their sanitizing (at least, as per the health department in my area). There is no "final rinse" of the sanitizer.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

FWIW a food service permit also requires a tub of bleach sanitizer at 150-200ppm concentration. I now know the reason... So food workers don't accidentally poison customers

Should I take from this that 150 ppm is the lowest concentration of bleach that is both:
1) Adequate to suffice as a sanitizer.
2) Safe for "no rinse" use as long as allowed to fully air dry.

~150 ppm bleach should be roughly 2.2 level teaspoons of 5.25% bleach added to 1 gallon of RO or distilled water, as:
a) 1 Tablespoon of bleach in 1 gallon of water ~= 204 ppm
b) 3 Teaspoons = 1 Tablespoon
c) 1 Teaspoon of bleach in 1 gallon ~= 1/3 x 204 = 68 ppm
d) 2.2 level teaspoons in one gallon of water = 2.2 x 68 ppm = 149.6 ppm bleach (call it 150 ppm)

But due to surface tension you can typically get somewhat more than 1 'level' teaspoon of liquid into a teaspoon (as can be observed simply via looking at it on edge). So it may approximately work out that 2 certified metric measuring teaspoons of 5.25% generic/pure single ingredient bleach added to 1 gallon of nominally distilled water comes right close to achieving a bleach concentration of 150 ppm.

 

[TheMadKing]

Should I take from this that 150 ppm is the lowest concentration of bleach that is both:
1) Adequate to suffice as a sanitizer.
2) Safe for "no rinse" use as long as allowed to fully air dry.

~150 ppm bleach should be roughly 2.2 level teaspoons of 5.25% bleach added to 1 gallon of RO or distilled water, as:
a) 1 Tablespoon of bleach in 1 gallon of water ~= 204 ppm
b) 3 Teaspoons = 1 Tablespoon
c) 1 Teaspoon of bleach in 1 gallon ~= 1/3 x 204 = 68 ppm
d) 2.2 level teaspoons in one gallon of water = 2.2 x 68 ppm = 149.6 ppm bleach (call it 150 ppm)

But due to surface tension you can typically get somewhat more than 1 'level' teaspoon of liquid into a teaspoon (as can be observed simply via looking at it on edge). So it may approximately work out that 2 certified metric measuring teaspoons of 5.25% generic/pure single ingredient bleach added to 1 gallon of nominally distilled water comes right close to achieving a bleach concentration of 150 ppm.

Yes that's the thinking as far as I understand it. I've undergone a couple inspections so that my brewing club could serve food at events and that's the one thing they always test (albeit with inaccurate test strips). So they have a minimum concentration and a maximum allowable.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Yes that's the thinking as far as I understand it. I've undergone a couple inspections so that my brewing club could serve food at events and that's the one thing they always test (albeit with inaccurate test strips). So they have a minimum concentration and a maximum allowable.

Which would appear to be ~150 ppm minimum and ~200 ppm maximum. Thanks @TheMadKing !!!

 

[JJinMD]

Maryland requires a minimum of 50ppm.

 

[sibelman]

So this discussion seems limited to using bleach for sanitizing without poisoning people. But when it comes to homebrewing and bleach, some other concerns come to mind. Bleach has a way of damaging stainless steel. It may contribute undesired odor and flavor. And I wonder if yeast tolerate bleach as well as the CDC say we humans do. So I'm a bit puzzled.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Yes, it appears that for brewing one must rinse after using bleach. Quoting Wikipedia:

US government regulations allow food processing equipment and food contact surfaces to be sanitized with solutions containing bleach, provided that the solution is allowed to drain adequately before contact with food, and that the solutions do not exceed 200 parts per million (ppm) available chlorine (for example, one tablespoon of typical household bleach containing 5.25% sodium hypochlorite, per gallon of water). If higher concentrations are used, the surface must be rinsed with potable water after sanitizing.

A similar concentration of bleach in warm water is used to sanitize surfaces prior to brewing of beer or wine. Surfaces must be rinsed with sterilized (boiled) water to avoid imparting flavors to the brew;

But 200 ppm may be below the level of metal corrosivity:

Solutions containing more than 500 ppm available chlorine are corrosive to some metals, alloys and many thermoplastics (such as acetal resin) and need to be thoroughly removed afterwards...

 

[dmtaylor]

I have experienced chlorophenol enough times to know that I don’t want ANY residual hypochlorite touching my beer.

 

[Miraculix]

I have experienced chlorophenol enough times to know that I don’t want ANY residual hypochlorite touching my beer.

How does it taste? Bandaid?

 

[jerrylotto]

It's all a matter of free chlorine which can be neutralized with Campden. Honestly I wouldn't consider using bleach as a cleaner without a Campden treatment afterwards to reduce any residual chlorine to chloride.

 

[dmtaylor]

How does it taste? Bandaid?

Indeed like Band-Aids, and also like the throat spray called Chloraseptic which numbs a sore throat for about 2 seconds (so it's not very effective, and tastes wretched!).

Chlorophenol for me has occurred a couple of times here in spring and fall when the municipal water department is known to increase hypochlorite addition significantly due to seasonal rapid changes in temperatures in the water source (Lake Michigan) and increased runoff of snow and rain. A couple of guys in my club used to work for the municipal utility, that's how I know. Other local brewers have had the same issue once or twice, but once they learn what causes it, no real problems after that.

 

[Miraculix]

Indeed like Band-Aids, and also like the throat spray called Chloraseptic which numbs a sore throat for about 2 seconds (so it's not very effective, and tastes wretched!).

Chlorophenol for me has occurred a couple of times here in spring and fall when the municipal water department is known to increase hypochlorite addition significantly due to seasonal rapid changes in temperatures in the water source (Lake Michigan) and increased runoff of snow and rain. A couple of guys in my club used to work for the municipal utility, that's how I know. Other local brewers have had the same issue once or twice, but once they learn what causes it, no real problems after that.

I also work in the water sector, be glad that they don't use chloramine, that stuff is hard to get rid of.

So far, I've only heard about this particular taste and I'm not eager to witness this myself in my brews. Luckily, we have strong laws in Germany that limit the amount of chlorine used in municipal water distribution to a point that it cannot be detected anymore once the water comes out of the consumers water tap.

However, if there's an emergency, like a big leak or works on one of the main pipes, the dosage might be increased above this threshold. And then the bandaid might show up...

 

[Andres Falconer]

I also work in the water sector, be glad that they don't use chloramine, that stuff is hard to get rid of.

So far, I've only heard about this particular taste and I'm not eager to witness this myself in my brews. Luckily, we have strong laws in Germany that limit the amount of chlorine used in municipal water distribution to a point that it cannot be detected anymore once the water comes out of the consumers water tap.

However, if there's an emergency, like a big leak or works on one of the main pipes, the dosage might be increased above this threshold. And then the bandaid might show up...

So what is there to do about chloramine, which is in Washington DC tap water - other than not using the water? Letting it sit in an open container doesn’t remove it. Do chlorine filters or campden tablets help?

 

[Miraculix]

So what is there to do about chloramine, which is in Washington DC tap water - other than not using the water? Letting it sit in an open container doesn’t remove it. Do chlorine filters or campden tablets help?

I think campden might work. But please double check, I'm not 100% sure. I wouldn't trust filters.

 

[Andres Falconer]

I think campden might work. But please double check, I'm not 100% sure. I wouldn't trust filters.

Just checked. Campden works. Some filters work, but not charcoal. A long boil can also do the job, but who has time/energy for that?

 

[jerrylotto]

Campden will reduce Chloramine to ammonium chloride (disassociated in solution) and/or an RO filter will remove pretty much everything. Simple carbon or ion-exchange filters can reduce but not eliminate chloramines. Activated charcoal beds are the preferred way to remove it commercially but the filter activity degrades with use.

 

[BrewDrinkRepeat]

be glad that they don't use chloramine, that stuff is hard to get rid of.

One campden tablet, crushed to powder, will eliminate chloramine and chlorine in up to 20 gallons of water, practically instantly.

 

[Garfield43]

FWIW I use 1 oz of bleach an 1 oz of vinegar in 5 gallons of water.
This ratio came from Charlie Talley the guy who invented Star San.
He talks about bleach, Star San and sanitation in general here:
Sanitizing with Bleach and Star San

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

As to beer tasting like Band-Aids, is it common to taste ones Band-Aids?

 

[jerrylotto]

As to beer tasting like Band-Aids, is it common to taste ones Band-Aids?

You've never cut your tongue?

 

[BrewnWKopperKat]

in case you skimmed past it (emphasis added) ...

Cleaning and sanitizing your household after an emergency is important to help prevent the spread of illness and disease.

Personally, after the emergency, I'd get everything (other than the brewing stuff) back to normal, then clean / sanitize the brewing stuff using my normal processes/techniques.

YMMV.

 

[ncbrewer]

FWIW I use 1 oz of bleach an 1 oz of vinegar in 5 gallons of water.
This ratio came from Charlie Talley the guy who invented Star San.
He talks about bleach, Star San and sanitation in general here:
Sanitizing with Bleach and Star San

One of the guys in our homebrew club uses bleach as a no-rinse sanitizer (at least the last I knew). He uses some kind of test strips to make sure it is in the right concentration because bleach looses potency over time. I wouldn't do it myself.