CDA - Thoughts on Recipe Creation

[ontum]

Hello,

I thought it would be fun to create my own take on a Cascadian Dark Ale. I've never attempted one and it seems fitting that I should, because I live the heart of Cascadia. I am raising the gravity a little bit and also going for some fruity tropical notes. I really like the Armored Fist from Boneyard Brewing, so I wont be disappointing if it is anything like that. I am also using London ESB Wyeast 1968 because I've read that Boneyard Brewery uses this in most of their ales.

Anyone have any thoughts on this recipe and how it may align or differ with the CDA style? Might it be to roasty or burnt for this style?

Thank you for the input.
First Addition
Name: Cascadian Timber
OG: 1.092
FG: 1.025
ABV: 9.0 %
IBU's: 78.2
Boil Size: 7.8 Gal (1.2 gal Boil off, 1 gal lost to trub/heat Ex)
Batch Size: 5.50 Gal
Color: 40.3 SRM
Boil Time: 60 Min

Grains & Adjuncts
16 lb 2 Row
12.8 oz Cara II Dehusked
8.8 oz Midnight Wheat
8 oz Carmel/Crystal Malt 40L
8 oz Chocolate Malt
4 oz Munich Malt
4 oz White Wheat Malt

.5 lb Dextrose

Hops
1.5 oz Columbus FWH
.5 oz Simcoe 30 Min
1 oz Amarillo 10 min
2 oz Cascade 5 Min
.5 Simcoe Whirlpool

1 oz Amarillo Dry Hop 14 Days

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.6L Starter London ESB Wyeast Labs 1968

Additions
Amount Name Time Stage
.5 oz Irish Moss 10 mins Boil

Mash Profile
Mash 60 min at 152° F
Fly Sparge Out

Updated 6/24/15
Name: Cascadian Timber
OG: 1.085
FG: 1.018
ABV: 9.0 %
IBU's: 146
Boil Size: 7.8 Gal (1.2 gal Boil off, 1 gal lost to trub/heat Ex)
Batch Size: 5.50 Gal
Color: 38.2 SRM
Boil Time: 60 Min

Grains & Adjuncts
14 lb 12.6 oz 2 Row
12.8 oz Cara II Dehusked
8.8 oz Midnight Wheat
8 oz Carmel/Crystal Malt 40L
8 oz Chocolate Malt
4 oz Munich Malt
4 oz White Wheat Malt

.5 lb Dextrose

Hops
2 oz Columbus FWH
1 oz Simcoe 30 Min
2 oz Amarillo 10 min
2 oz Cascade 5 Min
1 oz Simcoe Whirlpool
2 oz Amarillo Whirlpool
2 oz Cascade Whirlpool

1 oz Amarillo Dry Hop 14 Days
1 oz Cascade Dry Hop 14 Days
1 oz Columbus Dry Hop 14 Days
1 oz Simcoe Dry Hop 14 Days

Yeasts
Amount Name Laboratory / ID
1.6L Starter London ESB Wyeast Labs 1968

Additions
Amount Name Time Stage
.5 oz Irish Moss 10 mins Boil

Mash Profile
Mash 60 min at 150° F
Fly Sparge Out

 

[m00ps]

Looks pretty good. I've been obsessed with making a perfect black IPA and you basically use a similar method. I think you can take out the chocolate malt though. The midnight wheat and carafa should get it dark enough.

I'd mash lower though so, along with the dextrose, youll have a nice lean body despite the dark color. I try to differentiate my black IPAs from hoppy stouts as much as possible. I usually mash at 148 and do a 10min mashout at 168 to get the last of the color extracted.

I use a lot more hops though, focusing on late additions. I made one last weekend with Apollo for bittering, and Simcoe, Chinook, and Rakau for aroma. I think the total was 17oz along with the keg hops. 90% of them went into a hopstand though. Piney hops seem best at home in black IPAs IMO

 

[giraffe]

Agree with the above. One more thing, 1968 can ferment out a 1.090 beer, but thats really looking at the limit. And attenuation can be midling in a high alcohol beer. In short, its risky unless you really love the strain.

Personally, Id use a more attenuating yeast, If you want an english, id go 1028 or 1098 as safer choices. Alternately, you could lower the gravity to 1.080.

 

[chri5]

I would leave out the chocolate. Those chocolate and coffee flavors make it more like a stout to my taste buds. I like CDAs to taste like a relatively normal IPA... And just be a different color.

 

[chri5]

Personally, Id use a more attenuating yeast, If you want an english, id go 1028 or 1098 as safer choices. Alternately, you could lower the gravity to 1.080.

I think this is good advice. You're looking at a 9% beer with an fg of 1.025. I don't think you really want it that sweet at the end. If you get a more normal fg you're going to have a very high abv.

 

[ontum]

Agree with the above. One more thing, 1968 can ferment out a 1.090 beer, but thats really looking at the limit. And attenuation can be midling in a high alcohol beer. In short, its risky unless you really love the strain.

Personally, Id use a more attenuating yeast, If you want an english, id go 1028 or 1098 as safer choices. Alternately, you could lower the gravity to 1.080.

Okay, so maybe I'll whip up a starter of Amercian Ale Yeast 1056 and add more hops towards the end. This should be a good neutral strand for this right?

I actually already bought the grains per the weighs above and its all mixed together, minus the 2 row.
Should I...
Option 1: scale back the 2 row to lower the ABV and have a higher ratio of other grains
option 2: mix all the extra grains real well, and then take a percentage out by weight to equal the reduced percentage of 2 row.

I'm leaning toward action 2.

 

[chri5]

Drop the dextrose for sure. I would probably decrease 2row.

 

[midfielder5]

Lots of good advice. I would look drop OG to 1.085 ish by holding back some of the specialty grain and 2 row- and more hops. Like lot more! Like 6 ish oz more total (1 more oz at 60, then more whirlpool and 3-4 oz dry hop).
Otherwise IMO you are making a barley wine.
good luck.

 

[ontum]

Lots of good advice. I would look drop OG to 1.085 ish by holding back some of the specialty grain and 2 row- and more hops. Like lot more! Like 6 ish oz more total (1 more oz at 60, then more whirlpool and 3-4 oz dry hop).
Otherwise IMO you are making a barley wine.
good luck.

Okay, so go I'll ahead and use the 1056 and reduce the FG to 1.085. This reduces my grain bill to 92.4% of the previous weight. So I'll be reducing each grain to that amount and adding more hops.

How would you suggest I use 5 oz of hops in a carboy? I have these stainless mesh tubes that hold 2-3 oz that I use to dry hop and this keeps the hops out of my keg posts and disconnects. But when ever I use a bunch of hops straight in the carboy, I fight clogged posts and reduced flow out the taps. Any suggestions?

Is is a good idea to drop the dextrose. While making this beer at 9% ABV I thought it would be a good idea to dry it out a little with a half pound of dextrose so that it isn't too sweat and the hops shine more. Thoughts???

I also added an updated recipe idea to the first post.

 

[chri5]

My recommendation to take out the dextrose is that if I needed to reduce og I would rather keep malt over sugar. I wouldn't expect there to be a problem with 1056 fermenting that down to the 1.014 range.

 

[ontum]

I've brewed the second rendition of my recipe and it was one of worst brew days I've experienced.

I have a stainless 400 micron hope spider type basket that I've always used with my eherms system in my whirlpooled keggle. With recommendation from this thread, I decided to up the hops. To do this I had to stop at different home brew store on my way home and all they had were whole leaf hops. By the time I got to the late hop additions, my hop basket was pretty full and I was worried that I wouldn't get good hop utilization with a full basket. So I threw them into the wort outside the basket.

I'm sure you can see where this is going.

I figured that I would whirlpool the wort and hops without running it through the heat exchanger, let the hops settle into a cone in the middle, and then slowly run the wort through the heat exchanger into the fermenter.

Well, this didn't work at all. There were so many hops that my Chugger pump plugged almost immediately and I was not able to get any sort of whirlpool. Which means I didn't get the wort cooled quickly and I only ended up with 2.5 gallons. To cool the wort, I filled up my keg HLT with tap water and gravity fed the wort through the 50' x1/2" coil and into the fermenter. I managed to catch most of the hops debris with a mesh strainer. This process took an extra hour, so I have not idea what the beer will taste like. I pitched my starter of American Ale yeast and time will tell.

Last Night
With redemption in mind, I made another attempt at a CDA last night. I really wanted to use the Wyeast 1968, so I reduced my grain bill to 87% of the previous recipe. This reduced recipe should have netted about 1.075 OG, but somehow I missed my mash efficiency greatly and only achieved 1.062. I haven't had this low of efficiency since I upgraded my mill, added the bottom drain MLT, and got used to my new BCS control panel. I will have to do some digging to figure this one out. First thing I will check is my mill gap.

So for my second attempt, I will have the same amount of hops as the revised recipe above, an OG of 1.062, and I am using Wyeast 1968. I'm going to dry hop on day 7 of fermentation and rack on day 21 as this yeast doesn't need much time. I'm starting fermentation at 64° and I'll raise it a degree every day or so up to 70°. I think should be a very nice beer but time will tell.

-
Craig

 

[chri5]

Ouch!

The good part is that somehow these messed up brew days always seem to produce the best beers. The bad part is its impossible to replicate!

Hope they turn out.