cascadian dark suggestions

[charliethebum]

I thought I'd try and throw together a cda with what I have laying around I'd appreciate some feedback. Here's what I'm thinking
10 lb 2 row
2 lb munich 10
8 oz crystal 90
4 oz crystal 40
12 oz chocolate malt 350
Mash @ 154 for 60 min, batch sparge to yield 6.5 gal pre boil
1 oz nugget 60 min
1 oz amarillo 30 min
.5 oz amarillo 15 min
.5 oz cascade 15 min
1 oz cascade flameout
Bry 97 west coast ale yeast ferment @ 65 deg, transfer to secondary and dry hop 7 days with 1.5 oz each cascade and amarillo.
This will be my first crack at this style and any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

 

[30Bones]

Looks good, this is what I am basing my Black IPA on. Still tweaking it since I am not a huge clone person and won't go looking for Eckraus in Iowa . FYI I used Bry97 in a recent APA and while it did well it seemed slow. Lots of variables, but I also fermented it at 65

Copy/paste from http://www.eckraus.com/blog/uinta-dubhe-imperial-black-ipa-clone-beer-recipe

Black as Night DIPA (Uinta Dubhe Imperial Black IPA Clone)
(all-grain recipe, 5.5 gallon batch)

Specs
OG: 1.093
FG: 1.023
ABV: 9.2%
IBUs: 120+
SRM: 40+

Ingredients
16.2 lbs. Pale 6-Row malt
2 lbs. Munich 10L malt
2 lb. Crystal 60L malt
1 lbs. Chocolate malt
.25 lb. Roasted barley
.25 lb Carafa III
.25 lb. toasted hemp seeds added to last 15 mins. of mash (use a grain bag)
1.5 oz. Chinook hops at :60 left in boil
2.5 oz. Columbus hops at :30 left in boil
2 tsp. Yeast nutrient at :15 left in boil
1.4 oz. Bravo hopsat :5 left in boil
1.4 oz. Columbus hops at :5 left in boil
1.4 oz. Bravo hops during 60-minute whirlpool
3 oz Falconer's Flight hops dry-hopped for 21 days
3 packets Wyeast 1056: American Ale Yeast or Wyeast 1007: German Ale Yeast (into a 2L yeast starter)

Directions: Mash crushed grains at 152˚F for 60 minutes. Add toasted hemp seeds during last 15 minutes of mash. Sparge to collect a total of roughly 9 gallons of wort in the brew kettle. Boil for 120 minutes. Add hops according to schedule above. Whirlpool for one hour. Chill wort to 65-70˚F and oxygenate. Ferment at 68˚F. Add dry hops to secondary fermenter and allow for 3 weeks in secondary. Cold crash prior to kegging or bottling to help dry hops settle out.

 

[charliethebum]

That looks pretty awesome. Carafa III seems to be almost a requirement for this style but I don't have any on hand and don't really want to make a lhbs run. Will the chocolate stand up as the only dark malt in the recipe? I've never used it except for color.

 

[30Bones]

Only one way to find out I am far from a malt expert to give you an answer.

 

[charliethebum]

Fair enough! I appreciate the input. I'll post results when I can

 

[Talgrath]

That looks pretty awesome. Carafa III seems to be almost a requirement for this style but I don't have any on hand and don't really want to make a lhbs run. Will the chocolate stand up as the only dark malt in the recipe? I've never used it except for color.

Carafa really isn't required, in my opinion you get a better flavor without Carafa. My CDA uses chocolate malt and midnight wheat, you get plenty of bitter flavor from hops, no need to further add more bitter flavor from Carafa. I know a lot of online recipes call for it, but I don't think it really adds anything, of course, I'm not a big fan of Carafa to begin with.

 

[charliethebum]

Carafa really isn't required, in my opinion you get a better flavor without Carafa. My CDA uses chocolate malt and midnight wheat, you get plenty of bitter flavor from hops, no need to further add more bitter flavor from Carafa. I know a lot of online recipes call for it, but I don't think it really adds anything, of course, I'm not a big fan of Carafa to begin with.

Good to know. I haven't personally experimented with dark malts at all, this being my first attempt at something besides a pale/amber/red. What does midnight wheat bring to the table? I punched my recipe into a calculator and came up with almost 26 srm, so not quite in the spectrum for a proper cda. Completely agree that extra bitterness isn't necessary.

 

[Talgrath]

The midnight wheat I'm referring to is 550L, or about 774 SRM.

http://www.brewingwithbriess.com/Assets/PDFs/Briess_PISB_MidnightWheatMalt.pdf

It basically adds dark color without astringency and a nice smoothness. Personally I've got it in both my Stout and my CDA now.

 

[charliethebum]

Thanks that sounds like just the ticket! May just have to hit the ol' lhbs after all :cross:. Probably 1/2 lb should do the trick eh?

 

[didinho]

That looks pretty awesome. Carafa III seems to be almost a requirement for this style but I don't have any on hand and don't really want to make a lhbs run. Will the chocolate stand up as the only dark malt in the recipe? I've never used it except for color.

I brew Black IPA with just crystal and chocolate, and few munich malt and is OK. I find that coffe-chocolate tastes but no roasted goes better with fruity and zesty hops.
and I don't dryhop, as I don't like the grassy tastes combined with american hops flavours.

 

[charliethebum]

I brew Black IPA with just crystal and chocolate, and few munich malt and is OK. I find that coffe-chocolate tastes but no roasted goes better with fruity and zesty hops.
and I don't dryhop, as I don't like the grassy tastes combined with american hops flavours.

Can't you cut back on dry hop time to reduce/eliminate the grassy chlorophyll flavors? Say 3 or 4 days

 

[didinho]

Can't you cut back on dry hop time to reduce/eliminate the grassy chlorophyll flavors? Say 3 or 4 days

thank you for the suggestion. I will try, probably soon.
Actually, I solved by adding tons of hop at boiloff, but is not exactly the same.

 

[charliethebum]

thank you for the suggestion. I will try, probably soon.
Actually, I solved by adding tons of hop at boiloff, but is not exactly the same.

Let me know how it works
I've never dry hopped longer than 5 days for fear of getting those grassy flavors. I'm planning on going 7 with this batch though

 

[Talgrath]

I dry hop my CDA with 2 ounces of Williamette for 7 days, I haven't noticed any grassy flavors myself.

 

[charliethebum]

Here's what I decided to go with if anyone sees something that seems out of proportion please let me know.
10 lb 2 row
2 lb munich 10
8 oz crystal 90
4 oz crystal 40
8 oz chocolate malt 350
8 oz midnight wheat 550
Mash @ 152 for 60 min, batch sparge to yield 6.5 gal pre boil
1 oz nugget 60 min
1 oz amarillo 30 min
.5 oz amarillo 15 min
.5 oz cascade 15 min
.5 oz amarillo 5 min
1 oz cascade flameout
Bry 97 west coast ale yeast ferment @ 65 deg, transfer to secondary and dry hop 7 days with 1.5 oz cascade and 1 oz amarillo.*
Est. Og 1.065
Est. Fg 1.016
Est abv 6.43%
Est. Ibu 84
Est. Srm 34

 

[ukaH]

I don't use Carafa in my black IPAs, as the times i have, I didn't like the flavor. I'd recommend Midnight Wheat as others have, or just the chocolate/crystal/munich youv'e got there already.

 

[Talgrath]

Looks like a tasty brew to me. I might go a little darker, but then again I like my CDA pitch black. I might also suggest a bit of dry hopping, but it's not necessarily required. Brew and enjoy!

 

[charliethebum]

I don't use Carafa in my black IPAs, as the times i have, I didn't like the flavor. I'd recommend Midnight Wheat as others have, or just the chocolate/crystal/munich youv'e got there already.

Great to hear looking for a nice subtle roastiness with minimal to zero astringency and the midnight wheat sounds just right

 

[charliethebum]

Looks like a tasty brew to me. I might go a little darker, but then again I like my CDA pitch black. I might also suggest a bit of dry hopping, but it's not necessarily required. Brew and enjoy!

So if I went with the original 12 oz of chocolate along with the 8 oz midnight wheat you don't think it'd overbalance it? I'm going to do a full mash with all the grains as i don't believe in steeping just for color. That would bring it up to around 37 srm. Thanks for all the input it's really helping me develop this recipe!

 

[poundsj]

Brewed this Sunday and and pulled a sample today and was very happy.
Plan on doing 4oz of dry hop for around 4 days but haven't decided on hops yet.
BTW stuck sparge is an understatement for what happened on this puppyl

8 Gal Batch OG 1.070

15 lbs Pale Malt 59.4 %
7 lbs Rye Malt 27.7 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils 4.0 %
11.0 oz Chocolate Wheat Malt (400.0 SRM) 2.7 %
11.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) 2.7 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L 2.0 %
5.8 oz Carafa III (525.0 SRM) 1.4 %
2.00 oz Warrior [14.40 %] - Boil 60.0 min
2.00 oz Cascade [7.10 %] - Steep
2.00 oz Centennial [10.50 %] - Steep

 

[charliethebum]

Poundsj - that sounds fantastic! I bet the spiciness from the rye makes for an interesting blend with the roasted malts. Might have to try something like this for my next iba/bipa/cda/aba/ada/isbpa/ whatever the hell they're called :fro:

 

[poundsj]

Poundsj - that sounds fantastic! I bet the spiciness from the rye makes for an interesting blend with the roasted malts. Might have to try something like this for my next iba/bipa/cda/aba/ada/isbpa/ whatever the hell they're called :fro:

Its really much cleaner tasting than I expected but it is early yet so we will see. We have named it "Midnight Rye'd"

 

[Talgrath]

So if I went with the original 12 oz of chocolate along with the 8 oz midnight wheat you don't think it'd overbalance it? I'm going to do a full mash with all the grains as i don't believe in steeping just for color. That would bring it up to around 37 srm. Thanks for all the input it's really helping me develop this recipe!

Not at all, personally, I don't have my recipes in front of me right now, but I use a full pound of both and less lighter colored grains. I think mine comes in at something like 50 SRM. That said, it depends on how dark you want your CDA to be.

 

[charliethebum]

Not at all, personally, I don't have my recipes in front of me right now, but I use a full pound of both and less lighter colored grains. I think mine comes in at something like 50 SRM. That said, it depends on how dark you want your CDA to be.

Holy crap does light even escape a beer that dark? Should call it black hole cda 37 is near opaque isn't it? I read somewhere that anywhere above 40 SRM is basically just black can you make out a difference between 40-50?

 

[sboyajian]

Put me on the "no carafa" train. Personally, if the only difference between your IPA and your BIPA is carafa, you're doing it just to do it. It's just a regular ipa made black.

My BIPA reads almost like a dry stout, which I guess most of them really do, Just hopped up. Comes in at 91 IBU's, but with the roasted malts, it's not overly bitter.

(5.5 Gallon Recipe - Mash at 150 for 60 min)
11.0 lb 2-Row
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal 80L
0.4 lb Extra Special
0.3 lb Chocolate
0.3 lb Victory
0.3 lb Black Malt
0.3 lb Roasted Barley

1.0 oz Northern Brewer 60 min
1.0 oz Cascade 30 min
1.0 oz CTZ 30 min
1.0 oz Cascade 10 min
1.0 oz CTZ 10 min
2.0 oz Cascade 5 days Dry Hop

To touch on the post above, regarding color -- the picture is this recipe, which is 31 SRM.

 

[funnelweb]

So if I went with the original 12 oz of chocolate along with the 8 oz midnight wheat you don't think it'd overbalance it? I'm going to do a full mash with all the grains as i don't believe in steeping just for color. That would bring it up to around 37 srm. Thanks for all the input it's really helping me develop this recipe!

There's a lot of usefull info on (Cold) steeping right here (especially 7:04 pm - Greg Beron quote)

http://hbd.org/brewsandviews/messages/15516/18903.html?1068737394

BR Folke

 

[charliethebum]

Put me on the "no carafa" train. Personally, if the only difference between your IPA and your BIPA is carafa, you're doing it just to do it. It's just a regular ipa made black.

Amen to that! The whole reason i want to try my hand at this style is i love the whole idea of roasted/malty mingled with the piney citrus of a big american ipa.

 

[Talgrath]

Holy crap does light even escape a beer that dark? Should call it black hole cda 37 is near opaque isn't it? I read somewhere that anywhere above 40 SRM is basically just black can you make out a difference between 40-50?

I was slightly off, the SRM is 40, apparently ou can't go higher than that. That said, if SRM went higher, I feel like my CDA would be 50 and my Stout would be like....60. It's so dark that it loops back around and I get a creamy white foam.

 

[scott1147]

Another great grain for Cascadian/Black IPA is the Belgian debittered black grain. If your lhbs has that give it a shot instead of the carafa. Gives you the darkness without the astringency. +1 on the midnight wheat as well. .5 lbs of debittered and .5 lbs of midnight wheat would be awesome!

 

[charliethebum]

Another great grain for Cascadian/Black IPA is the Belgian debittered black grain. If your lhbs has that give it a shot instead of the carafa. Gives you the darkness without the astringency. +1 on the midnight wheat as well. .5 lbs of debittered and .5 lbs of midnight wheat would be awesome!

Thanks for the tip I'll have to keep that in mind for my next one. Pretty well have my mind set on the chocolate / midnight wheat for this one. Now if i can just get home and brew...

 

[charliethebum]

I'd just like to thank everyone for their input. It's really been very helpful and I appreciate it. Oh and thanks for not flaming me for using the term cascadian dark it'll be a couple weeks until I get home to brew but I'll post my results as soon as possible. In the meantime any other input/ insight/ favorite cda recipes are more than welcome! Thanks again guys

 

[charliethebum]

For anyone who's interested- i brewed this up today and the hydro sample tastes amazing!
10 lb 2 row
2 lb munich 1
.5 lb crystal 90
.25 lb crystal 40
.5 lb chocolate malt
.5 lb midnight wheat
Mashed @149 for 60 min, batch sparge to yield 7gal of 1.056 wort.
1 oz nugget 13% aa 60 min
1 oz amarillo 9.7% aa 20 min
.5 oz cascade 6.4% aa 15 min
.5 oz amarillo 10 min
.5 oz each cascade and amarillo 5 min
Ended up with 5.5 gal at 1.066 SG. it's bubbling away happily at 68 deg with the bry-97.
I'm extremely happy with how my sample tasted. Nice and subtle roastiness which allows the munich/crystal to come through nicely. Everything seems to mingle really well together hard to believe it's at nearly 80 ibu's. I'll update with pics in a couple months after conditioning

 

[sboyajian]

Very nice.. I felt the same way about mine (which is also 1.066 btw). Mine comes in at 91 IBU's and you'd never know.

 

[BaylessBrewer]

I just brewed a similar beer (omit the crystal 40 and the Munich) with Simcoe and Cascade. Came in @ 1.052 after a pre boil spill (still pissed!) and it smells wonderful in the fermenter. Can't wait to taste the final product.

 

[charliethebum]

So here it is finally. The roast flavors are coming through a little stronger than expected and the hops aren't as pronounced as I had hoped(tried a hop tea[simcoe and Amarillo] instead of dry hopping) but overall it's a tasty beverage. I'll probably try it again with less roasted malt and a bigger finishing hop addition next time

 

[Talgrath]

Looks great, glad to hear it worked out!

 

[ArkotRamathorn]

So here it is finally. The roast flavors are coming through a little stronger than expected and the hops aren't as pronounced as I had hoped(tried a hop tea[simcoe and Amarillo] instead of dry hopping) but overall it's a tasty beverage. I'll probably try it again with less roasted malt and a bigger finishing hop addition next time

What was the final gravity? I had a very very similar recipe to yours (switch out the munich for dark candi sugar). I believe mine finished around 1.015(started at 1.081) and I think that bit of extra sweetness is keeping the roast in check while the Citra/Cascade/Wakatu hops make you a happy man(woman if you happen to be female).

 

[charliethebum]

It finished at 1.01.