Carbonation Issues - Kegging

[Jason Coker]

Appropriate final gravity is reached and I place the beer into the keg. I normally do Hefs so I turn the pressure up to 18-25 PSI for 2 days. After two days I drop the pressure down to around 12 PSI for another 24 hours before bringing it down again to serving pressure.

After this process, I serve the beer; the pressure seems right and the head is where it should be initially. The problem is that the beer itself doesn't seem carbonated, if that makes sense. There are no little bubbles you would expect to see in beer from the tap and the head, which was good to start with, quickly goes away.

Additionally, I've tried to fill growlers with beer from my keg and the growlers always come out flat.

I'm relatively new to kegging, so hopefully I am just missing something obvious that everyone else already knows. Thank you all for your time and input.

 

[myndflyte]

My process before was similar to yours. I left it at 30 psi for 24 hours then turned down to 12 psi (serving pressure) for a week but I was finding it wasn't where I wanted it. So now, I turn it to 30 psi and every 24 hours I take a sample to check the carbonation. Once its where I like it, I turn it back down to serving pressure.

So you could give it a week or 2 and it'll eventually carb, or you can just turn the pressure back up until it's where you want.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

What's your serving pressure? How long is your liquid hose?

 

[Jason Coker]

What's your serving pressure? How long is your liquid hose?

My serving pressure is right around 10 PSI (8-12ish). Hose is 3ft.

 

[jdauria]

My serving pressure is right around 10 PSI (8-12ish). Hose is 3ft.

3 feet seems short for 10 PSI serving pressure. You may want to use a beer line balancing calculator like https://brucrafter.com/beer-line-calculator/ I serve at 10 psi with 6.25 foot lines.

I have a burst carbonation spreadsheet that I downloaded somewhere, if you want "high carbonation", at 18 PSI you would need to carb for 88 hours, at 25 PSI for 57 hours. Also, I would give the keg overnight in the keg to chill the beer (assuming it was at room temp) before starting carbonating.

 

[balrog]

You need more time. It takes a while to dissolve the gas and reach equilibrium.

 

[Gnomebrewer]

3 feet seems short for 10 PSI serving pressure. You may want to use a beer line balancing calculator like https://brucrafter.com/beer-line-calculator

^^This. I use 11 foot length, 3/16" lines (serve at 12PSI) and 9 foot (serve at 9PSI). Just start with a line much longer than you need (maybe 12 foot at 10PSI) and gradually shorten it until it pours just how you like it.

 

[day_trippr]

The only beer line length calculator worth using.
Comes complete with an education

Cheers!

 

[doug293cz]

3 feet seems short for 10 PSI serving pressure. You may want to use a beer line balancing calculator like https://brucrafter.com/beer-line-calculator/ I serve at 10 psi with 6.25 foot lines.

I have a burst carbonation spreadsheet that I downloaded somewhere, if you want "high carbonation", at 18 PSI you would need to carb for 88 hours, at 25 PSI for 57 hours. Also, I would give the keg overnight in the keg to chill the beer (assuming it was at room temp) before starting carbonating.

Any idea where you got the burst carb spreadsheet. I would love to have a copy of it. If you don't remember where you got it, maybe we could arrange and email transfer.

Brew on

 

[doug293cz]

Appropriate final gravity is reached and I place the beer into the keg. I normally do Hefs so I turn the pressure up to 18-25 PSI for 2 days. After two days I drop the pressure down to around 12 PSI for another 24 hours before bringing it down again to serving pressure.

After this process, I serve the beer; the pressure seems right and the head is where it should be initially. The problem is that the beer itself doesn't seem carbonated, if that makes sense. There are no little bubbles you would expect to see in beer from the tap and the head, which was good to start with, quickly goes away.

Additionally, I've tried to fill growlers with beer from my keg and the growlers always come out flat.

I'm relatively new to kegging, so hopefully I am just missing something obvious that everyone else already knows. Thank you all for your time and input.

Sounds like your beer is under carbonated, and the short line you are using is probably causing excessive foam from the little carb you have. A lot of the carb that you have may be going into your head during the pour, leaving little residual.

Hefs are usually fairly highly carbed, 2.8 - 3.0 volumes. At 38°F, 2.8 volumes requires 14.3 psi for storage and serving. 3.0 volumes requires 16.4 psi. Required pressures are higher at higher serving/storage temps. Use the chart here or calculator here to determine the required pressure for any given carb level and temp.

Also, you really need longer lines. Use the line length calculator @day_trippr linked above, or just use 1 foot for every psi of CO2 pressure (assuming 3/16" ID beer line.)

Finally, are you purging the headspace adequately prior to starting carbonation? If there is a significant amount of air in the headspace, the actual CO2 pressure will be lower than the gauge pressure, and your beer will be under carbed. Can you describe your headspace purging process?

Brew on

 

[GaBrewZoo]

I have been cold crashing my beers and kegging while they're still cold. I have an extra tank and regulator, set that to 20#, and shake vigorously for 10 seconds every 30 for about 10 minutes. Put the keg in the kegerator with normal pressure (10 psi) and in a day or two it's ready to go.

 

[doug293cz]

I have been cold crashing my beers and kegging while they're still cold. I have an extra tank and regulator, set that to 20#, and shake vigorously for 10 seconds every 30 for about 10 minutes. Put the keg in the kegerator with normal pressure (10 psi) and in a day or two it's ready to go.

Agitating at higher than chart pressure is the easiest known way to over carb a keg. If it works for you, then carry on. But, I would never recommend this process to anyone.

Brew on

 

[Andre3000]

Agitating at higher than chart pressure is the easiest known way to over carb a keg. If it works for you, then carry on. But, I would never recommend this process to anyone.

Brew on

This.

The only way I've found it to be fool proof is using a pressure gauge. I use my spunding valve:

-Make sure beer is at serving temp. Hook the gas up and give the keg 3-4 good shakes at the high pressure. I serve at 11 psi so I shake carb at 25-30 psi.
-Disconnect the gas and give it 15-20 shakes to make the beer absorb the gas and equalize.
-Hook a pressure gauge up to the gas post on the keg. If you're below proper carb pressure repeat the first step. If you're close to carb pressure, throw it in the kegerator and it should be perfect in a day or two.

This process is also quite dependent on keg head space. If you've got a keg that's half full, you should use a lower pressure.

 

[jdauria]

Any idea where you got the burst carb spreadsheet. I would love to have a copy of it. If you don't remember where you got it, maybe we could arrange and email transfer.

Brew on

Found it...for some reason I though it was a website, but it was on Reddit..https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/8zvgpi/burst_carbonation_equations/ If you download the spreadsheet, it has formula errors for calculating high PSI by hour. Also on the thread, someone created a easier version of that spreadsheet here...https://public.tableau.com/profile/john.keegan4772#!/vizhome/BurstCarbChart/BurstCarbingTool Both assume 5 gallons at 38F

 

[doug293cz]

Found it...for some reason I though it was a website, but it was on Reddit..https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/8zvgpi/burst_carbonation_equations/ If you download the spreadsheet, it has formula errors for calculating high PSI by hour. Also on the thread, someone created a easier version of that spreadsheet here...https://public.tableau.com/profile/john.keegan4772#!/vizhome/BurstCarbChart/BurstCarbingTool Both assume 5 gallons at 38F

Thanks, @jdauria

Brew on

 

[jdauria]

You're welcome! Hope it helps!

 

[SassyGlass]

Let me start by saying, I'm most grateful for this thread. I'm new to kegging. My first keg went well and when I added the second keg I did everything wrong. My 2nd keg is pouring all foam then pretty flat beer. Like a jackass, I totally jumped the gun and started pouring from this keg prematurely. lol. I read everything above my posting. I unplugged my gas line from my 5gal Corney keg and pulled the pin to let the pressure out. Should I let this keg sit in the keggerator as is for 24hrs before reattempting to properly carbonate it? My temp gauge was reading 42F and I'm going to drop it to 38F.

 

[ChuckS1]

I had a similar problem where one of my kegs poured mostly foam and flat beer. Day_trippr suggested looking at the o-ring on my liquid-out connection, saying that if air was getting in the line it would cause foaming and lack of carbonation in the beer. Turned out that was the problem. Replaced the o-ring and problem fixed.

 

[SassyGlass]

I had a similar problem where one of my kegs poured mostly foam and flat beer. Day_trippr suggested looking at the o-ring on my liquid-out connection, saying that if air was getting in the line it would cause foaming and lack of carbonation in the beer. Turned out that was the problem. Replaced the o-ring and problem fixed.

Thanks ChuckS1. If my brew doesn't balance after a week, I will be checking that and if still no resolve then I'm going to consider transferring my brew to another keg.