Can't Trust Anyone Sometimes

[HarborTownBrewing]

I've been working on a project at home, doing some remodeling and such. Between me, the wife, and both our parents we have done everything ourselves.

Except for drywall - I don't want to mess that up. So, I hired the job out and after a few days of sub-par work and the guy messing up our walls and floor, he walked out on us. I get a new guy to come finish it, and he starts strong but kind of stalled out and is finishing much later than promised (and needed).

What I've especially learned from this whole thing is, if you want something done it is really really hard to trust people and hold them accountable. Sometimes it is stressful to do a project by yourself instead of hiring it out, but for the most part you control a bit of your own destiny that way.

 

[b-boy]

Yup. I just went through this a few months ago. I had multiple contractors screw me over. I swear, some of these guys don't have souls.

If they find a better deal with someone else, they will bail on you so fast it'll make your head spin.

I do it myself, unless I absolutely can't.

 

[vNmd]

Sorry to hear what you are going through. I was wondering how you came to the ones doing the work? References, web with previous work, etc.. I just got a house that is a huge project. I tried that home adviser website that showed good reference scores. The few people that showed up didn't seem too interested. Angies list wasn't a help for what I was looking for. How does one properly vet a potential contractor?

 

[max384]

I've been working on a project at home, doing some remodeling and such. Between me, the wife, and both our parents we have done everything ourselves.

Except for drywall - I don't want to mess that up. So, I hired the job out and after a few days of sub-par work and the guy messing up our walls and floor, he walked out on us. I get a new guy to come finish it, and he starts strong but kind of stalled out and is finishing much later than promised (and needed).

What I've especially learned from this whole thing is, if you want something done it is really really hard to trust people and hold them accountable. Sometimes it is stressful to do a project by yourself instead of hiring it out, but for the most part you control a bit of your own destiny that way.

Sorry to hear about your troubles.

I also do all my own work at my house, on vehicles, etc.

A few months ago we moved into a new house, and one of the major things that needed done was to repaint the entire interior of the house. My wife talked me into hiring someone since I didn't have much free time and a lot of other things needed to be done. I grudgingly gave in, and we hired someone, based on a personal recommendation. He told us it would take three days to do. On day number four, he had everything complete except for our master bathroom. He said he would be back at the start of the weekend in five days. Fast forward four months, a lot of phone calls, and many excuses, and I just painted the damn bathroom myself. For four months I was seething over this half done bathroom with the light fixtures, towel racks, etc. removed that I knew would have been done months ago if I had just done it myself. Instead, I paid someone to do it, and got more of a headache than if I had just done it myself.

The biggest mistake made was that my wife paid him the full amount before he was finished. I told her not to give him a dime until he was finished, but she thought he was a trustworthy guy. Last time she'll make that mistake. Last time I'll make the mistake of letting my wife talk me into having someone else do work that I can do myself.

Nobody cares about your stuff as much as you do.

 

[schematix]

The biggest mistake made was that my wife paid him the full amount before he was finished. I told her not to give him a dime until he was finished, but she thought he was a trustworthy guy. Last time she'll make that mistake. Last time I'll make the mistake of letting my wife talk me into having someone else do work that I can do myself.

Women tend to be far too trustworthy of others with your money. That's why you don't ever have them take the car to the repair shop, have a plumber come by the house when it's just them, buy a car on their own, manage contractors, etc. They naturally assume the best in people, when the reality is someone will f*ck you if they can f*ck you.

 

[Jaybird]

I've been working on a project at home, doing some remodeling and such. Between me, the wife, and both our parents we have done everything ourselves.

Except for drywall - I don't want to mess that up. So, I hired the job out and after a few days of sub-par work and the guy messing up our walls and floor, he walked out on us. I get a new guy to come finish it, and he starts strong but kind of stalled out and is finishing much later than promised (and needed).

What I've especially learned from this whole thing is, if you want something done it is really really hard to trust people and hold them accountable. Sometimes it is stressful to do a project by yourself instead of hiring it out, but for the most part you control a bit of your own destiny that way.

Nobody cares about your stuff as much as you do.

Truer words can't be spoken.

Man So sorry to hear of the crap your dealing with, with your contractor. As an EX contractor myself I feel your pain! I use to hear HORROR stories from my customers about the guys they had before me.
Drywall is 1 of those things that if not done well you will see it forever! Check out Angies list I think its called and find a guy that way. I hear people find killer contractors that way.

Good luck!

Cheers
Jay

 

[Homercidal]

I had an addition put on our house. Normally I like to do everything myself, but with working more than full time, going to school, and raising a family, I had my hands full. After the addition was roughed in (a different story) I did electrical and put up the dry wall. Wanting a nice finish, and knowing my own skills were not up to that level yet, I hired a guy to mud and sand it.

It cost $300 for him to do a 14x14 bedroom, a 10x10 laundry room, and a small bathroom. When he got there he explained how I *should* have hung the drywall to make it easier to finish, but didn't change his price. Each day he came in while we were at work, and was gone before we got home. He was done in 3 days. 1 day per coat. Minimal dust. I couldn't have been happier. My only regret was that I didn't get to watch how he did his thing.

A skilled drywaller doesn't take very long and does a great job. The average local shmoe is probably lumping drywalling into his other duties as a way to fill in between the other things he's actually good at.

 

[b-boy]

Angie's List is good. It lets you see reviews from hundreds of other people. It's pretty transparent. I think I paid $6.95 for a year.

I hired an HVAC guy to replace my boiler, and a gutter guy to complete a job another contractor bailed on. I only looked at people with an A rating. I had a good experience with both of them.

Before that I hired 2 flooring guys and a roofer by personal referral. They were all train wrecks. The roofer never finished the job, one flooring guy bailed on me before he started, and the other left the job unfinished. I had to finish it myself.

 

[BadWolfBrewing]

I'm most of the way through fixing up a house, and nearly all of my contractor experiences have been bad. Poor work, unprofessional, unethical, you name it. I've had a drywaller smoke inside my house, and at one point I found myself explaining the NEC to my electrical contractor, who then admitted he was an apprentice.

I think it is always just better to do it yourself. There's not anything you can't learn how to do. And because it is your house, you'll go slow, watch/fix mistakes, use good quality materials, etc. In my experience, the extra experience a contractor has does not usually make up for their apathy. Plus, you are learning how to do something new.

I also have a slight tool fetish... so every new project means I get a new tool I built some new cabinets for the kitchen, there were a lot of nice tool purchases for that project.

That being said, not all contractors are bad. I've had a few that did a good job, just not most. It sort of makes me want to be a handy man when I retire. Be friendly, do a good job, take on enough jobs that I don't get bored. Seems like an okay way to spend your time.

 

[madscientist451]

Most people have never been a boss or run their own business, they don't know how to hire and fire, no nothing of contracts and generally trust people to do what they say.
When hiring a contractor, you need to use a written contract that says specifically what you want done and when. If you want the drywall done in 3 days, put that in the contract and make sure you also put in there he won't get paid until its done and there will be a penalty if he goes beyond the agreed upon time. Don't pay anything up front. Put in the contract you have the option of terminating the contract (firing him) if the work isn't done on time, and that the cost of bringing someone else in to finish the job will be deducted from the contract price. If the contractor doesn't think he can do it in 3 days (or whatever your deadline is) he'll say so when confronted with the above, and you can then you'll find out that he already has 8 jobs going and is thinking he can "fit you in" to his schedule somehow. Its hard to be a hard ass but its your money and your house so it should be your way or the highway.

 

[b-boy]

Most people have never been a boss or run their own business, they don't know how to hire and fire, no nothing of contracts and generally trust people to do what they say.
When hiring a contractor, you need to use a written contract that says specifically what you want done and when. If you want the drywall done in 3 days, put that in the contract and make sure you also put in there he won't get paid until its done and there will be a penalty if he goes beyond the agreed upon time. Don't pay anything up front. Put in the contract you have the option of terminating the contract (firing him) if the work isn't done on time, and that the cost of bringing someone else in to finish the job will be deducted from the contract price. If the contractor doesn't think he can do it in 3 days (or whatever your deadline is) he'll say so when confronted with the above, and you can then you'll find out that he already has 8 jobs going and is thinking he can "fit you in" to his schedule somehow. Its hard to be a hard ass but its your money and your house so it should be your way or the highway.

I agree with this, but you'll have a really hard time finding a guy to agree to all these terms. Most of them will just walk away.

There's enough business out there that these guys can usually be picky about which jobs they take. Especially the good contractors. If you call 10 guys for an estimate, you'll be lucky to get 2 show up.

 

[Remmy]

I am not understanding how a contractor walks-out on a job. Are you people paying in-full up front?

Most contractors typically require some sort of down payment (% of the whole job) and with each contractor I have worked with. it's a pay-as-you-go type of deal. X amount of dollars every week or so (whatever the agreement is) until the job is complete. Using the remaining payments as leverage, I don't understand how a contractor would flat-out leave the job and never go back UNLESS the contractor lands a sweet job elsewhere - where it's a no-brainer. Even then, they're leaving money on the table.

 

[NTexBrewer]

If you know any realtors check with them for contractor references. They usually have a list of people they trust to do the minor jobs that need to be done to get a house ready to sell.

 

[cilestiok]

I am not understanding how a contractor walks-out on a job. Are you people paying in-full up front?

Most contractors typically require some sort of down payment (% of the whole job) and with each contractor I have worked with. it's a pay-as-you-go type of deal. X amount of dollars every week or so (whatever the agreement is) until the job is complete. Using the remaining payments as leverage, I don't understand how a contractor would flat-out leave the job and never go back UNLESS the contractor lands a sweet job elsewhere - where it's a no-brainer. Even then, they're leaving money on the table.

Agreed. When I was working for myself, it was always: down payment (cost of materials, typically) and then three installment payments upon phase completion. Larger jobs (complete house builds, large additions, etc.) would have more complex payment schedules but would be similar in structure (phase one would have its own down payment and payment plan, same for phase two, etc.)

 

[madscientist451]

I agree with this, but you'll have a really hard time finding a guy to agree to all these terms. Most of them will just walk away.

There's enough business out there that these guys can usually be picky about which jobs they take. Especially the good contractors. If you call 10 guys for an estimate, you'll be lucky to get 2 show up.

So that's where negotiation comes in, you want the job done in 3 days, the contractor then discloses he's busy can't even start till next week, so you've found out how busy he really is, if you really need it done now you offer him $500 more and he puts his current job on hold and comes over and installs your drywall while the other homeowner waits. That's how things work.

 

[j1n]

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

I should add: in my day job, I write scopes, solicit bids, procure work, oversee and inspect, and issue payments for construction projects ranging from $100 - $50,000. I say that only because I figured I knew enough going into this small drywall project at home that I wouldn't get hosed.

In my case, the original drywall guy said he'd be "finished in 4 days, probably 3, but I'll use the 4th day just to touch up anything that needs it". Day 1 was slower than expected, but I anticipated it because the sheets had to be cut downstairs and brought upstairs due to how small the stairs were. I paid accordingly for the work which was performed.

Day 2, they really rocked and rolled. Much more done today than expected. Another payment, not huge, bringing us to about half of what he was owed. In theory there should have only been one more day of work left.

Day 3, Not a lot done. Honestly, when I saw what he finished, I couldn't believe how little was accomplished. Slight payment, bringing us to 67% of what he was owed.

Day 4, THE LAST DAY!!! Right? Wrong. He shows up, I leave the house, then he texts me about 3 hours later and said he had to go. I stop by the house, and he did a little bit, putting up a corner bead, a tad bit of mud, and mopping some of the floors. But he removed his tools and everything - all of which he had been leaving every day.

The only thing I can figure is he realized he had way more left to go and was going to be stuck there another 2-4 days. For the remaining money and any other job he could get instead, it wasn't worth his time. So instead of being a man and talking to me, he just walked and locked the door on his way out.

The new guy just texted to say he's finishing up today, which is the latest it can be finished. If he doesn't finish today I'm going to be delayed big time, but we'll see.

All said and done, the first guy was too cheap and he under-bid the job. I should have known better than to give it to him anyways, but in my ever-thrifty ways I jumped at a favorable price. Considering what I paid the first guy, and what I am paying the second guy, my total price is exactly what I was planning on so I can't complain too much. I'm just more bummed it took an extra 5 days and unnecessary stress.

 

[madscientist451]

. Day 1 was slower than expected, but I anticipated it because the sheets had to be cut downstairs and brought upstairs due to how small the stairs were. I paid accordingly for the work which was performed.

Day 2, they really rocked and rolled. Much more done today than expected. Another payment, not huge, bringing us to about half of what he was owed. In theory there should have only been one more day of work left.

Day 3, Not a lot done. Honestly, when I saw what he finished, I couldn't believe how little was accomplished. Slight payment, bringing us to 67% of what he was owed.

If you hadn't paid him anything until the job was done, you would have been better off. Its best to discuss this at the beginning . He needs his money sooner? Get the job done and then you'll see the money, not before.
He won't work under that arrangement? Find someone else who will.
This is what most people just can't do, is set a firm position and stick with it.
I suppose on a big job that's worth $50,000 its normal to pay half, but when the guy is only going to get a few hundred more $, its easy to walk away.

 

[HarborTownBrewing]

If you hadn't paid him anything until the job was done, you would have been better off. Its best to discuss this at the beginning . He needs his money sooner? Get the job done and then you'll see the money, not before.
He won't work under that arrangement? Find someone else who will.
This is what most people just can't do, is set a firm position and stick with it.

Yeahhhhh...from the 10 contractors I spoke to, ranging in price from "x" to "4x", all of them required some pay along the way. When I told them no, none of them want the job. Maybe it's a locale thing, maybe not. But that's how things around here were going when I bid it.

Actually, I know it's a locale thing. When I was doing this sort of work in a different area a ways away from here you could tell them "no pay until you are done" and half of the guys would still take the job. It was a smaller area though, so people were easy to track down. If Bill didn't finish a job, news in the trades spread, and Bill didn't get many more jobs. If Jim didn't pay for a job, news spread and no one did work for Jim anymore.

A relative of mine is going through this right now as well on a large project that is almost done. He still owes the contractor a fair amount of money, but the guy just won't come back to finish the little bit which is left. I mean, we are talking some small small work that the guy won't finish, despite he isn't going to get a final payment until it's done. More important and bigger jobs to do, I guess.

 

[Mustang_Bobby]

 

[b-boy]

So that's where negotiation comes in, you want the job done in 3 days, the contractor then discloses he's busy can't even start till next week, so you've found out how busy he really is, if you really need it done now you offer him $500 more and he puts his current job on hold and comes over and installs your drywall while the other homeowner waits. That's how things work.

That's exactly what happens, and that's why these guys are willing to jump jobs on a whim. That's exactly what makes most of them dirt bags. If he's willing to screw someone else for $500, he'll do the same to you.

I'd rather deal with the guy who has some ethics, and tells me he won't screw over another customer. I want that guy working for me. I can probably trust him.

 

[Firewalker11]

As a contractor myself, I do these small jobs on a time and materials basis only and some dont like that, they want an exhaustive contract protecting them... I can't afford to spend two hours on leagalize for a $500.00 job so it's either a simple agreement (written job scope) or I suggest another company.

Amazingly, we need to keep busy to make any money at all and since I bill (net 14) all my time and materials at the completion of small jobs, I have to put my trust in you all. This means that we HAVE to go from job to job and that means pushing job endings off from time to time.

The guys you are all complaining about have poor time management skills, when getting bids/estimates, make sure to add that wording into your agreement, "All work, including reasonable cleanup, to be completed no later than 14 days after start." or something similar.

In a raging fit of irony, I am just leaving now to do coat #2 of mud in a commercial restroom. This job has been going on for three weeks already due to parts (402-20 2" tee) and occupancy along with a LOT of cleanup from the urinal draining into the wall cavity.

I am word of mouth only, I have always gotten paid AFTER the job is complete. If you are in the Twin Cities area, send me a PM.

 

[b-boy]

I am not understanding how a contractor walks-out on a job. Are you people paying in-full up front?

Most contractors typically require some sort of down payment (% of the whole job) and with each contractor I have worked with. it's a pay-as-you-go type of deal. X amount of dollars every week or so (whatever the agreement is) until the job is complete. Using the remaining payments as leverage, I don't understand how a contractor would flat-out leave the job and never go back UNLESS the contractor lands a sweet job elsewhere - where it's a no-brainer. Even then, they're leaving money on the table.

They're not leaving money on the table. They are screwing over a customer that they had an agreement with.

I had a flooring guy agree to refinish my floors and lay down some new hardwood. He refinished the floors, but never showed up to do the hardwood. He strung me along for weeks. He kept canceling on me. Finally, I had to do it myself. He didn't get paid for it, but I still got screwed. It completely derailed my project for several weeks.

This was after the first flooring guy bailed on me. I actually had to move into my new house, then move all my furniture back out again because the first guy never showed up to start the job when he promised. I needed the work done before I moved in. I gave him 2 months to do the work. He kept pushing the date, then just disappeared.

 

[b-boy]

If you know any realtors check with them for contractor references. They usually have a list of people they trust to do the minor jobs that need to be done to get a house ready to sell.

I got my roofing referral from my realtor. He was very responsive to her because she would send him more work. Not so much for me.

 

[max384]

View attachment 331752

Looks legit.

 

[Calichusetts]

Currently in small claims court for a similar issue.

I had this floor guy work on my house twice before without issue. Third time was a massive refinish and replacement of my entire first floor.

Job was done so shotty. We are getting bleed back, nails are coming up one floorboard is popping up. He forgot to put a custom board between our floor and our slider, so I literally have a 6-foot long gap in my kitchen. Stain over everything, door hands, my porch, etc. He showed up for final payment and my wife just lays into him over the quality. He doesn't see anything wrong with it and we refuse to pay the the remaining balance (about 20% of the total bill.)

Funny thing is, he takes us to small claims court! Bizarre, anyway, we got awards $4000 to redo the floors so know he is requesting a jury trial where we will have to hire a lawyer. (I defended myself in the first case) Such a headache. This was almost a year ago, still have the gap, still have issues, trial is in a few weeks.

 

[b-boy]

I'm confused - How can he get a jury trial if you already won the case? Either way, collecting from him will probably be an issue.

In Niagara County, NY they've started arresting these guys and charging them with fraud if they abandon a job or take money and don't do the work. I wish that was the standard way of handling it. I don't see any difference between this and stealing money from someone.

 

[Stillraining]

Weird..In this state he'd never get one. Thats the deal with SCC..the Judge is the Judy I mean Jury.

 

[Calichusetts]

Everyone gets one appeal in small claims court. You have ten days to appeal and can request the venue: magistrate, mediation, or jury.

 

[Calichusetts]

After this. It's final.