Can you brew a Quadrupel with basic beginner's equipment?

[avillax]

The question is, can you brew a Quadrupel such as Rochefort 10 or Westvleteren even with this beginner kit that I bought? https://www.brouwland.com/en/our-pr.../d/brewferm-starter-s-kit-deluxe#.VbZQoPmqqkp

Or that would definitely require extra mandatory accessories? I mean, I would love to hear stories of people brewing great beers with the very basic.

If not, what's the minimum extra accessories you would need?

 

[Beernik]

I wouldn't try to brew a quad:
1) if doing extract. The extract likely has too many unfermentables (read carapils) and will finish too sweet.
2) if bottle carbing. The yeast is going to be taxed to its limit and will not likely be able to adequately carb the bottle. ABVs over 10% usually take a long time to bottle carb and may not ever get there satisfactory.
3) without temp control. If you don't have good temp control, it will likely ferment insainly hot and have off flavors.

Edit:

4) and without the ability to make an adequate starter. If you can't build a big enough starter, the yeast will be stressed and that can lead to off flavors

 

[ChelisHubby]

Well if you are willing to pitch 3 packets of dry yeast and adjust the temps on the swamp cooler every 4 hours for probably 4 days and if you keg or are willing to let it sit in a bottle for 6 weeks or more. If you can do these things then go for it. But if you have reservations about part of these things then brew a lower alcohol beer. Say a belgain double . I wouldn't want to try it because it is unforgiving and easy to mess up. That and I don't need or want 5 gallons of 9 % beer. I can buy a couple of bottles and keep them around for when I want them.

 

[avillax]

Thanks for your answers, this speaks about the complexity of Quadrupels and no wonder they're my favorite beers, also $4 for a Rochefort 10 is not so bad.

So I would say this could be left to the experts and with expert equipment I would say, otherwise not worth wasting all those ingredients.

But for the cold winter days, because you know, winter's coming, what's the darkest, highest alcohol content beer I can brew with my very basic equipment without risk wasting a lot? Belgian double?

 

[ChelisHubby]

Try a double and you decide what you can do. Are you only going to brew one time or do you plan to brew more often say once a month or more or less. The longer your in this hobby the more equipment you are likely to acquire. The getting the process down is more exacting than you might think unless you are a perfectionist. Me I am sloppy and still make plenty of mistakes but I drink what I brew and enjoy. It can be a expensive hobby or a rather cheap hobby, it depends on how you approach it. I can keg 5 gallons for 25 to 30 dollars not counting equipment. I could bottle extract for 35 dollars or a little more depending on the recipe. Don't look for a strong beer but look for a beer that you will want to drink. I have made a couple of strong beers and have found while it is easy to make it strong it can be a challenge to make it taste good. Now that said I like malty low hopped beers. I think making a Stout or a IPA in the 8% range might be easier. Brew a few 5% beers to get a handle on the process then try something stronger.

 

[Derek1985]

The question is, can you brew a Quadrupel such as Rochefort 10 or Westvleteren even with this beginner kit that I bought?

The answering is a resounding Yes.

1.) Do you have a pot? 5 gal or so capacity? If so then your on your way.

2.) Recipe:

65% Briess Pilsen Light Extract
15% Briess Golden Light Extract
5% Briess Munich Extract
15% CSI D-90 or D-180
Maybe steep some Special B or Caramunich

Maybe some Challenger hops for bittering and Saaz for flavor/Aroma

3.) Do you have another pot? maybe 6 quart or so? Make yourself a big starter of any number of popular Wyeast or White Labs Abbey yeast: WY1762 or WLP540 for Rochefort, WY3787 or WLP 530 for Westmalle/Achel/Westvleteren or maybe WLP500 for Chimay.

4.) Bottle Condition with some hefty bottles and some fresh yeast and sit on it for a while.

5.) As for temp control: slap a sticky thermometer on the bucket and put it in an ice bath for the first 3-4 days. Its not perfect but with change outs of frozen bottles it should keep you in an ideal territory. After that let it free rise.

No reason it can't be done if thats what you want to make.

Will it taste like a Rochefort? Not likely. Will it taste good? and be distinctly Belgian? Most likely.

 

[solbes]

Starters are needed for the higher gravity. Temp control is important for Belgians especially. But you could probably get by without a fermentation fridge if you pitch at 62F, try to keep it under 65F for 36 hours and then let it start to free rise up to low/mid 70s.

 

[nolasuperbass]

I recently kegged a 10 gallon batch of Belgian dark strong that I made without pure O2 or temperature control. I used WLP500. It took it down from 1.089 to 1.001, which is 99% apparent attenuation and 11.5% ABV. I had airlock activity for two months. I then left it alone for another month before cold crashing it for two weeks. I purposefully fermented it warm because I wanted maximum esters. It might be the most complex beer I've ever tasted, but it has no alcohol heat or fusel character.

It worked because I pitched it onto the yeast cake of previous tripel. Most people will say that you need O2 for a big beer, but you can do without it if you have a very big starter. So, ironically for a specialized beer, big Belgians are actually pretty easy to make with beginner equipment. If you really want to do this, make a normal gravity Belgian, then use about half the yeast cake for the strong one. Belgians can be slow to finish, so don't expect to use your fermenter again for 2 to 3 months. Then it's best if you age it in the bottle for several months. Liquid yeast is best. I think that I read the Rochefort yeast is WLP540, which is actually available now. Good luck

 

[Derek1985]

.....big Belgians are actually pretty easy to make with beginner equipment.

I agree. You just need a big yeast starter and a primitive form of temp control.

Belgians can be slow to finish, so don't expect to use your fermenter again for 2 to 3 months.

2-3 months is a long time! I'd say that 2 consecutive stable FG readings and it's done. As was stated above, you can always wait it out for a few more gravity points, but in reality your just increasing the ABV. Flavor is not really going to be affected.

 

[DromJohn]

Just do it.
Using the two plastic bucket method I made a very good AHS Belgian Abt 12 (very similar side by side to St. Bernardus) and am currently bottle aging Scaldis Noël from Clone Brews.

 

[Calder]

I don't know what peoples issues are. It shouldn't be too difficult.

I'd brew a 1.050 simple Belgian before it to build up the yeast and pitch the big beer straight on the cake. You can just toss a vial of liquid yeast into a 1.050 beer, so no limit on what yeast you can use, nor do you need a starter. Research, and you will find both White Labs and Wyeast have the Westmalle yeast.

Keep the beer simple, use the lightest extract you can find, use maybe a pound of Special-B, and 25% plain white sugar. Don't be afraid of the sugar. Research some recipies, but since extracts tend to be less fermentable than grains mashed low, tend to go on the high side of the sugar recommended in recipies.

A good thing about Belgian yeasts is they can (and generally should) be fermented higher than regular ale yeasts.

Go for it.

 

[Beernik]

Since I was all gloom and doom and I don't want to be discouraging, this is how I would do it. I've modified @gio 's recipe for extract (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=233911)

Batch size: 5 gallons

Extract:
7lbs Briess Pilsen DME

Spcialty Grains:
1.5lbs CaraMunich
1.5lb CaraVienna
1lb Pilsen Malt
1lb flaked wheat
0.25lb Carafa I

Adjunct:
1.5lb Amber Belgian candi syrup (10 minutes)
2.25lb D2 Belgian candi syrup (10 minutes)

Hops:
1.5oz Stryan for 80 minutes
1.5oz Hallertau for 10 minutes

Spices:
Coriander for 10 minutes

Steeping Instructions: steep specialty grains at 153F for 45 minutes. (This is actually a partial mash because you need the pilsner malt to convert the flaked barley.)

Yeast: Belgian Abby II - Wyeast 1762

Ferment temperature: pitch at 68F. Let slowly rise to 73F over 7 days. Let fermentation complete at 73F. When fermentation is complete, if you can, cold crash at 46F for 3 days.

Carbing: do not expect it to bottle carb in less than 10 weeks.

Your target stats are:
OG: 1.096
FG: 1.011
ABV: 11.3%
SRM: 45
IBU: 27

As @Calder said above, make a "starter" by making a 1.050 OG beer using the Belgian Abby II yeast. Maybe a Belgian Pale Ale or something.

You will want to brew the clone beer. Rack the starter beer into another container (secondary or bottling bucket) and then rack the clone beer onto the starter's yeast cake.

Keeping your fermentation temps down is going to be critical for this beer. With that much sugar and malt in it, it's going to be putting out a lot of heat.

 

[TheMerkle]

The simple answer is "yes". There are extra steps you could take and techniques you could employ (that will each require additional equipment), but that's the whole thrill of this hobby is finding the need for them, learning them, understanding them, and acquiring the tools to apply them.

Make the beer, then come back to this forum. Tell me what you like about it and what you do not and I will do my best to suggest a gizmo or know-how to make the next one better

P.S. I will say now that I would STRONGLY recommend belgian candi sugar syrup over plain white table sugar. Many here will argue that it makes little or no difference, but in my experience there is a great deal to be gained from it.

 

[Warbirdbrewer]

Here is a commercial kit from Jaspers. While I haven't done this kit yet, I have done many other kits from this company and all of them have been top notch.

http://www.boomchugalug.com/product/st-huhlousinayshun-s-quadruppel/

 

[fun4stuff]

Yes- I've made a handful of Belgian tripels now that were extract and two that werbE biab. My temperature control is my basement or filling a tub with water... Or moving upstairs where it gets hotter. Last two batches I just let it sit in my basement though that stays 65-70. Beer turned out great. I think people stress too much about temperature. As long as you keep it in the range specified by the manufacturer, I think youré good.

 

[Kharnynb]

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=524570

I've done biab West-vleteren, and while due to ingredients limitations, i've missed the exact clone by some distance, it's still a great quad.

 

[Calypso]

My first beer was a Belgian golden strong, extract. It was 10.5%, used WLP500. I bottled it, and didn't even know about temperature control at that point. It came out fine. Good, even. It would probably turn out better now that I know about starters and proper aeration and temperature control, but whatever. It still came out well and people enjoyed it.