Can Oxiclean cause oxidation of beer?

[hlmbrwng]

I've been wondering this for quite some time and I can't find any discussion on this online. Everyone talks about oxidation and most brewers use PBW or Oxiclean. From what I understand Oxiclean is an oxidizer. So my question is if you don't fully rinse the oxiclean off of your equipment, do you risk oxidation of your beer?
But more generally, my question is will oxiclean or PBW oxidize beer. If the answer is yes, then not fully rinsing would indeed. And then my next question would be how little Oxiclean would it take? I can imagine that a very small amount could have a great effect.

The reason I am asking: I feel as though I'm doing a pretty good job at keeping oxygen out of my beer. I do realize that I may not be as well as I think I am, but I perform most transfers as closed transfers under pressure. I can use an insane amount of hops, and after a week or so, the hop flavor is gone. The beer is still bright and you can tell it was heavily hopped, but that's it. You just know hops were added. I don't get any specific citrus, floral, tropical, flavors.
I've noticed that when I rinse (very well) parts that have been soaking in oxiclean, there can be a residual white substance. I believe this could have something to do with minerality of the water being used, but I can't help but think this is oxiclean that just won't rinse off.

 

[balrog]

I asked this question many moons ago and I think it was @Yooper who answered saying something along the lines of "it doesn't work that way" or something. I'll try to hunt it down.

But you wanna rinse any cleaner off your gear.

Ok. Apologies to @Qhrumphf and @Yooper both. It was my question about calcium oxylate and PBW. Here. From 2014. And my memory only gets worse with age.

But I still think PBW or homemade with TSP/90-sodiumpercarbonate is not a beer oxidation issue but O2 in the keg into which you transfer, using vinyl or silicone tubing which I read lets O2 through, or a myriad of other low O2 things.

 

[RM-MN]

Before you spend too much time worrying about Oxiclean causing oxidation, read this thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/the-guillotine-syndrome.296596/

 

[hlmbrwng]

But I still think PBW or homemade with TSP/90-sodiumpercarbonate is not a beer oxidation issue but O2 in the keg into which you transfer, using vinyl or silicone tubing which I read lets O2 through, or a myriad of other low O2 things.

It's very possible it's simply O2. I have no way of measuring the amount of O2 in my beer, so I need to assume that I'm not doing a great job of transferring without significant oxygen.
I think the best thing for me to do is to contact PBW to find out the answer. I would like to have this answered for the entire homebrewing community. The answer might be common knowledge in industry, but I cannot find the exact question (which is incredibly surprising to me) or answer anywhere. I'll keep you posted.

 

[hlmbrwng]

Before you spend too much time worrying about Oxiclean causing oxidation, read this thread.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/the-guillotine-syndrome.296596/

I appreciate you taking the time link the post. However, I'm having difficulty finding any connection within the post you linked and my question. The post seems to be about head retention and not oxidation. Can you summarize why I should or should not worry about residual PBW or Oxiclean causing oxidation. Thank you.

 

[Qhrumphf]

"oxidizer" and "oxygen" aren't necessarily related. Oxidizing is a term for a particular form of chemical reaction. Oxygen is an oxidizer, but oxidation reactions occur with other chemicals. Chlorine is also an oxidizer, for example.

 

[hlmbrwng]

"oxidizer" and "oxygen" aren't necessarily related. Oxidizing is a term for a particular form of chemical reaction. Oxygen is an oxidizer, but oxidation reactions occur with other chemicals. Chlorine is also an oxidizer, for example.

According to Wikipedia (which can be trusted 100% of the time), when mixed with water it breaks down into hydrogen peroxide, which is an oxidizer. And according to H2O2.com..."Hydrogen Peroxide is one of the most powerful oxidizers known -- stronger than chlorine, chlorine dioxide, and potassium permanganate."

Edit: this is in reference to what sodium percarbonate breaks down into when mixed with water. This ingredient is in both PBW and Oxiclean.

 

[hlmbrwng]

I sent an email to PBW. Hopefully they can shed some light on this. Fingers crossed.

 

[Qhrumphf]

So many, many commercial breweries use peracetic acid as sanitizer for their tanks (which is a compound formed from peroxide and acetic acid and forms an equilibrium of the three), no-rinse, and many canning/bottling lines use ozone. PAA doesn't oxidize the beer unless you're adding it straight to it (and I'd imagine that's residual oxygen in the water it's prepared with more than anything else...)

If you're getting oxidation, I doubt it's from PBW unless you're just adding PBW solution to your beer.

How are you purging and carbonating your kegs? That's a far more likely explanation.

 

[madscientist451]

From what I understand Oxiclean is an oxidizer. So my question is if you don't fully rinse the oxiclean off of your equipment, do you risk oxidation of your beer?

What would be a logical reason not to rinse Oxiclean or any other cleaners off after you're done cleaning?

 

[RM-MN]

I appreciate you taking the time link the post. However, I'm having difficulty finding any connection within the post you linked and my question. The post seems to be about head retention and not oxidation. Can you summarize why I should or should not worry about residual PBW or Oxiclean causing oxidation. Thank you.

What I am trying to show is that long before there is enough Oxiclean residue to cause oxidation you will have beer with no head. My bottles were washed and rinsed by hand but sufficient Oxiclean residue remained to kill the heading on nearly all the bottles of beer.

 

[hlmbrwng]

What I am trying to show is that long before there is enough Oxiclean residue to cause oxidation you will have beer with no head. My bottles were washed and rinsed by hand but sufficient Oxiclean residue remained to kill the heading on nearly all the bottles of beer.

Ah, gotcha. Head retention was not in issue in any of these beers so that sounds like a good sign. Thanks again for the info.

 

[hlmbrwng]

What would be a logical reason not to rinse Oxiclean or any other cleaners off after you're done cleaning?

That is not what I'm trying to do. I'm afraid that even after rinsing, even if I think I've rinsed enough, there is residue.

 

[RM-MN]

That is not what I'm trying to do. I'm afraid that even after rinsing, even if I think I've rinsed enough, there is residue.

There will always be residue. Can't avoid it. The answer is to dilute the residue enough that it doesn't cause problems.

I was my bottles in the kitchen sink after thoroughly cleaning the sink. Being a double sink, I use one side for washing and the second for rinsing. Then, as I take a bottle from the rinse side and dump the water out, I give it a second rinse using the tap as a source of water with no possible residue of Oxiclean or other soap/detergent. Since the bottle is likely to only have a few drops left in it after I have dumped it, I only need to use a small amount of tap water to dilute any residue by a factor of thousands.

 

[hottpeper13]

Isn't PBW an alkaline? Isn't star-san an acid? Don't they neutralize each other?
If you had a lot of PBW residue would't that cause the acid sanitizer to be less effective,giving you possible contamination?
I don't know the answers but to me if your beer tastes good for 6 mos or so I'd say PBW isn't your issue.