Can I still fix this rookie mistake?

[alengreg]

Hi guys,
A couple weeks ago I brewed my second batch of beer. Having used S-05 for my previous IPA I wanted to make an Octoberfest ale using Safale S-04. And this lead to my mistake (read: high flocculation yeast).

Recipe details:
Batch size: 5.5 Gal

Grains:
5.5# Pilsner
5.5# Vienna
2# Munich
0.5# Carared
0.5# Crystal 150
mash 90min at 154F

Hops:
1oz Tettnanger at 30min
0.5oz Tettnanger at 60min
0.5oz Tettnanger at 75min
Total boil 90min

Yeast:
Safale S-04

My OG was 1.062 and everything started out fine and I took a gravity reading at 1week and it read 1.021. One week later I took another one under the assumption that it would be done but it still read 1.020 and it tasted really sweet. Not knowing better I assumed my yeast had died, racked to another bucket, and sprinkled a new pack of S-04 on top... I now know I should have read this forum before doing this because it later became obvious to me that fermentation had probably stopped because the yeast had flocculated so much. This hypothesis was strengthened by the fact that the taste test I had in a glass (which had some visible yeast in it) started to taste less sweet after a couple of hours.

So now a few days later I have a sweet, 1.020, beer with a small amount of yeast on the bottom and I want to get some input before I take more drastic measures (i.e pitching S-05 or Premier Classique with starter) to get it to my expected FG of 1.015.

Am I overthinking it? Should I just bottle? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

 

[Sammy86]

Hi guys,
A couple weeks ago I brewed my second batch of beer. Having used S-05 for my previous IPA I wanted to make an Octoberfest ale using Safale S-04. And this lead to my mistake (read: high flocculation yeast).

Recipe details:
Batch size: 5.5 Gal

Grains:
5.5# Pilsner
5.5# Vienna
2# Munich
0.5# Carared
0.5# Crystal 150
mash 90min at 154F

Hops:
1oz Tettnanger at 30min
0.5oz Tettnanger at 60min
0.5oz Tettnanger at 75min
Total boil 90min

Yeast:
Safale S-04

My OG was 1.062 and everything started out fine and I took a gravity reading at 1week and it read 1.021. One week later I took another one under the assumption that it would be done but it still read 1.020 and it tasted really sweet. Not knowing better I assumed my yeast had died, racked to another bucket, and sprinkled a new pack of S-04 on top... I now know I should have read this forum before doing this because it later became obvious to me that fermentation had probably stopped because the yeast had flocculated so much. This hypothesis was strengthened by the fact that the taste test I had in a glass (which had some visible yeast in it) started to taste less sweet after a couple of hours.

So now a few days later I have a sweet, 1.020, beer with a small amount of yeast on the bottom and I want to get some input before I take more drastic measures (i.e pitching S-05 or Premier Classique with starter) to get it to my expected FG of 1.015.

Am I overthinking it? Should I just bottle? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!

Personally, i think your wort is now beer, and if that usually better than average S-04 got you down to 1.020 and the gravity hasn't moved I don't think repitching fresh yeast even with a starter is going to do much.

Remember, your Octoberfest isn't going to be true to style because you used an ale yeast to begin with. Also, once bottled and carbed the flavors are going to change and leaving it alone for a few weeks the flavors will meld even more.

 

[bracconiere]

as far as i know the yeast only flocc after their out of food.

 

[bracconiere]

Remember, your Octoberfest isn't going to be true to style because you used an ale yeast to begin with. Also, once bottled and carbed the flavors are going to change and leaving it alone for a few weeks the flavors will meld even more.

is octoberfest a lager? makes want to ask what temp this is at.

 

[Sammy86]

is octoberfest a lager? makes want to ask what temp this is at.

Yes sir, Octoberfest beers were traditionally brewed in March and left in the cold caves to lager until September/October for the Fall celebrations.

Edit: I believe the first Octoberfest was to celebrate a wedding of some royal.

 

[Stonehenge360]

I think you may be confusing flocculation with attenuation. Low floc yeast just means it stays in suspension and does not clear as quickly, where attenuation is the yeasts “efficiency” at eating the fermentable sugars. I would not assume your yeast died but instead just ran out of food. With a FG that high, (assuming you are using a calibrated hydrometer) I would guess you have a bunch of unfermentable sugars in there (I don’t have a good answer for why). It should still be beer though.

 

[bracconiere]

I think you may be confusing flocculation with attenuation.

i don't think so, otherwise they would have had lower FG.

and i tried to fight saying it, but there is always gluco. get it down to 1.000

and i'd ask are you sure of the 154f mash temp, or just strike water temp? and assume the mash in calc would be spot on?

 

[Stonehenge360]

You could also pitch 3711...does a good job burning thru anything remotely fermentable.

 

[Jim R]

I think you overthought this. Going from 1.062 to 1.020 would give you a beer with a finished ABV of 5.5%. I think your beer had completed its fermentation as would have been expected. I would have just let it sit for the second week to age and clean up and then bottled or kegged it.

The only thing I always do now is to make a yeast starter 24 hours before pitching to better assure good yeast population,

 

[McKnuckle]

As a new brewer, you may not be fully aware of the attenuation qualities of different yeast. Your beer went from 1.062 to 1.020, or 42 points of attenuation, which is exactly 70%. That's entirely typical for that strain of yeast. So it was (and is) done. Another data point for you; I have an ale on tap now, fermented with S-04, that went from 1.049 to 1.014, or 71% attenuation.

Flocculation is a yeast's tendency (or not) to drop out of suspension after finishing. In this case with S-04, that's good, since you'll have a nice clear end product in relatively less time.

Another important bit is that most beer styles have a dominant component among the big three - grain, hops, and yeast - that tends to define their character. An Oktoberfest lager counts on clean malt flavors coming through, and that requires clean, unobtrusive yeast. Lager yeast is key.

Safale S-04, in contrast, is an English ale yeast, and it has a characteristic English ester profile that is likely to dominate the beer's flavor. In this case, you'll have a quasi-English strong bitter (with German malts), not an Oktoberfest lager. Of course it may very well be good! Just not, perhaps, what you aimed for. Choose your yeast carefully!

 

[alengreg]

As a new brewer, you may not be fully aware of the attenuation qualities of different yeast. Your beer went from 1.062 to 1.020, or 42 points of attenuation, which is exactly 70%. That's entirely typical for that strain of yeast. So it was (and is) done. Another data point for you; I have an ale on tap now, fermented with S-04, that went from 1.049 to 1.014, or 71% attenuation.

Flocculation is a yeast's tendency (or not) to drop out of suspension after finishing. In this case with S-04, that's good, since you'll have a nice clear end product in relatively less time.

Another important bit is that most beer styles have a dominant component among the big three - grain, hops, and yeast - that tends to define their character. An Oktoberfest lager counts on clean malt flavors coming through, and that requires clean, unobtrusive yeast. Lager yeast is key.

Safale S-04, in contrast, is an English ale yeast, and it has a characteristic English ester profile that is likely to dominate the beer's flavor. In this case, you'll have a quasi-English strong bitter (with German malts), not an Oktoberfest lager. Of course it may very well be good! Just not, perhaps, what you aimed for. Choose your yeast carefully!

Thanks all that replied! The reason I suspected flocculation issue is because I had read that S-04 should be stirred to put the yeast back in suspension. I will leave it for a few more days and then bottle. Hopefully the end product tastes ok despite the sweetness.

Does anybody know how I can hit higher attenuation in the future? I had counted on around 75% but ended up at 67%.

 

[bracconiere]

Does anybody know how I can hit higher attenuation in the future?

lower mash temp.

 

[dawn_kiebawls]

Choose a different, more attenuating yeast strain. Lower mash temps will also help the fermentability. I mash a lot of my Saisons around 148 and they're at 1.000 in about 2 days. But, with that being said, most Saison strains, especially WY3711 will nearly ferment water. Yeast selection matters. A lot

 

[Beermeister32]

My 2020 Oktoberfest was brewed in March which is traditionally when you brew Märzens. Mine came in at 1.065 and used three packs of W34/70 in a quickie starter, fermented at 50F, aged 7 months. Taste is fantastic! So traditional!

 

[Beermeister32]

Here is a photo

 

[Beermeister32]

On your Aletoberfest, pitch some US05 and a quarter teaspoon of amylase enzyme, let it finish up a bit more. Also let it lager a while cold, 34F, taste really improves!

 

[McKnuckle]

As a general guideline, choose your yeast first for its flavor attributes and appropriateness for the style. Second, seek a strain from the available choices that attenuates to the degree you desire. Finally, if you've narrowed down your choice but it's still not attenuative enough, mash lower and longer (90 minutes).

A 154ºF mash is not "high" per se, and with a different yeast you could make such a beer quite dry. I happen to mash most ales at 154-156.

Traditionally mashed lagers often use some variation of a Hochkürz mash, which includes a rest at both a low and a high mash temp; for example, 30 minutes at 145ºF and 30 minutes at 160ºF, followed by a 170ºF mash-out for 10 minutes. It helps make beer that's both reasonably dry and full-bodied at the same time.

 

[TheBluePhantom]

All that advice is great for the next batch. What you may want to look at is your balance as well. You have 14 pounds of malt, a low attenuating yeast and only two ounces of hops. If those were old at all you just don't have any bitterness to counter the residual sugars. You could brew another with much higher bitter and mix the two or learn to like it sweet. Another option if it is worth it to you, Get some Iso hop oils and add them. I believe Hoptech sells them. HopTech Homebrewing Supplies — Iso Alpha Extract, 2 oz

And I did my Marzen with S-23 at 54F. Plan on having refrigeration of some kind for lagers. But if you compare the yeasts on the brewing calculators, the lagers do finish dryer and at a higher abv.