Can I mix champaign and ale yeast?

[fromking]

Hi everyone,

This is soda question, but perhaps anyone who knows about yeast can answer:

I like the small low lying bubbles from the champaign yeast and the bigger floating bubbles from the ale yeast.

Can I do a 50/50 split bewtween the two yeasts when I make soda to combine the two different traits of the yeast?

Cheers

 

[david_42]

Champagne yeast is a slow starter, so the ale yeast's characteristics will dominate a soda.

 

[Denny]

The yeast has nothng to do with bubble size.

 

[helibrewer]

They can be mixed but Champagne yeast has a positive competitive factor so it will go to work killing the ale yeast. Almost all wine strains are designed this way to help alleviate problems with wild strains. When Champagne yeast is added to beer, it is usually done late, after the beer yeast has finished off the di- and tri- saccharides (which wine yeast cannot ferment).

 

[fromking]

The yeast has nothng to do with bubble size.

I guarentee you that champaign yeast produces significantly different bubbles than ale yeast.

 

[fromking]

They can be mixed but Champagne yeast has a positive competitive factor so it will go to work killing the ale yeast. Almost all wine strains are designed this way to help alleviate problems with wild strains. When Champagne yeast is added to beer, it is usually done late, after the beer yeast has finished off the di- and tri- saccharides (which wine yeast cannot ferment).

So the champaign yeast will trump the ale yeast. Will this make any significant difference?

 

[Johnnyhitch1]

what kind of soda are you fermenting?

IMO "small bubbles" are caused from a higher volume of co2 which causes the higher surface area of co2 to brew, regardless of the yeast.
i had a brown ale brewed with 04 that i slightly overcarbed (thankful for no bombs) and it poured like champagne. VERY small bubbles, nice fast dispersed head and that bubbly mouthfeel.

 

[sweetcell]

They can be mixed but Champagne yeast has a positive competitive factor so it will go to work killing the ale yeast. Almost all wine strains are designed this way to help alleviate problems with wild strains. When Champagne yeast is added to beer, it is usually done late, after the beer yeast has finished off the di- and tri- saccharides (which wine yeast cannot ferment).

yes, champagne is a "killer" yeast (competitive) and ale yeast is susceptible. according to a yeast expert interviewed on the brewing network, wine yeasts (like champagne) will kill all ale yeast in less than 12 hours.

wine yeasts can only ferment simple sugars. beer yeast can ferment maltotriose and simple sugars, but will jump on the simple sugars first - they're easier to digest. so pitch the wine yeast too early and it'll kill off the beer yeast before it's done with the maltotriose. pitch it too late and it will t have nothing to eat because the beer yeast will have munched all the simple sugars. the solution, according to the above-mentioned expert, is to ferment the two yeasts separately and then blend once fermentation is done.

EDIT: it's just occurred to me that you're talking about carbonation, so pitching at different times and/or blending isn't an option. sorry about that. guess your only option is to pitch both and hope that the ale yeast takes off first, and that the wine yeast isn't too far behind.

 

[Denny]

what kind of soda are you fermenting?

IMO "small bubbles" are caused from a higher volume of co2 which causes the higher surface area of co2 to brew, regardless of the yeast.
i had a brown ale brewed with 04 that i slightly overcarbed (thankful for no bombs) and it poured like champagne. VERY small bubbles, nice fast dispersed head and that bubbly mouthfeel.

Yep, that's what I was getting at.