Campden Tablet in Europe

[>==°>]

Hello,

I recently got interested in making fruit wine. While reading English literature about it (mostly North American), one thing that always came was the importance of regularly using Campden Tablet (before adding the yeast, when raking, when bottling,...) to avoid spoilage.
I am however living in Belgium and these holly tablets doesn't seem to exist here. I don't see it in French books, I don't see it in shops. In the Belgian homebrew shop I am using, I can find potassium metabisulphite (link) but that's the raw stuff. The ratio advised is 1gr for 10L. As I am experimenting with small 5L batches, I can hardly have an accurate 0.5gr... When searching online, I can find some on ebay but shipping from overseas.
Am I the only one in Europe that has troubles to find it? Or is it not used so much here?
Any recommendation to get it cheaply?

Thanks

 

[Yooper]

Hi! Potassium metabisulphite IS campden, just that campden tablets have a little bit of that k-meta mixed with binders to create a convenient tablet form. I generally use the powder myself.

First, the powder mixed heavily is used as a cheap sanitizer for equipment. In smaller doses (under 50 ppm) it's used as a preservative for the wine (stopping microbes) as well as an antioxidant.

You can mix up small amounts, by mixing it with a little water and adding, say, 3 ml, if that's what you need. There are charts and things out there that tell you how much k-meta powder to add to 100 mls of water so that you can dose that way if you don't have a gram scale that can measure those small amounts. I'd make a 10% solution and dose it that way.

In a 5l batch, you'd want about 1/16 teaspoon of powder so it would be a very small amount. Doing it as a solution would be much easier and more accurate.

 

[IslandLizard]

Potassium metabisulphite IS campden

They're close, chemically they work the same, and can be interchangeably used for this purpose. The Sulfite part does the work. That's the important part.

However, there's a small difference:
Campden is Sodium MetaBisulfite, the other is the Potassium equivalent, Potassium MetaBisulfite, also named KMeta or K-Meta.

K = the element symbol for Potassium (Kalium)
Na = the element symbol for Sodium (Natrium)

Everything else @Yooper said is accurate, as always. ^

 

[IslandLizard]

The ratio advised is 1gr for 10L. As I am experimenting with small 5L batches, I can hardly have an accurate 0.5gr... When searching online, I can find some on ebay but shipping from overseas.

For the purpose of measuring out small amounts of "brewing salts" (minerals) I bought a small scale that weighs out 10 milligram to 100 gram, with an accuracy of 10 milligram (.01 gram). $12 at Amazon, here in the U.S. All that stuff is mass produced in China.

If you don't have a scale that precise enough, but you have one or have access to one that can weigh out say 10 grams fairly accurately do this:

Step 1.
Heap a tablespoon (measure) in a cup on that scale and keep doing that until you hit 10 grams or a bit over. Divide the total weight by the number of tablespoons you added, so you know the approx. weight of 1 tablespoon.

Step 2.
If you have smaller measures (say 1/4 teaspoon), count out how many there are in that amount from Step 1. Now you know that each 1/4 teaspoon represents x.xx grams. That's your guide.
Any measure can work, such as a thimble, a small lid, etc. It's your own "calibrated measure."

Without measures, you can divide a heap into 5-10 equal heaps, visually. Then one of those heaps again into 5 to 10 smaller ones of equal size, and so on. Whatever works for you visually. Each heap represents a fraction of the original heap, with decent a margin of error of course, but it's better than none.

Or lay down a line and using a ruler, measure your dosage that way by the cm.

Use dark paper as a background for white or light color powder, it helps with visually sizing heaps and lines.

 

[IslandLizard]

You can mix up small amounts, by mixing it with a little water and adding, say, 3 ml, if that's what you need. There are charts and things out there that tell you how much k-meta powder to add to 100 mls of water so that you can dose that way if you don't have a gram scale that can measure those small amounts. I'd make a 10% solution and dose it that way.

Do you know how long those solutions of K-Meta last?

I've read K-Meta solutions lose potency over time, the sulfite slowly oxidizing or decomposing into other components, and toss them after 18 months, which seems very arbitrary

Store in well a well-sealed glass bottle perhaps, away from light?
At least the water should be deoxygenated, me thinks.
And of a neutral pH, definitely not acidic, as acids drive the SO2 out of solution, which is typically done when using K-Meta as a sanitizer, or when added to (acidic) wine to kill yeast.

 

[>==°>]

Thanks for your replies. I guess I will buy a precise scale.
The water solution is a good idea too. Do you know if I can keep the solution some time in a bottle? If I put an higher dose in water, can I just take a small amount for each batch and keep the rest in a closet?

 

[IslandLizard]

Thanks for your replies. I guess I will buy a precise scale.
The water solution is a good idea too. Do you know if I can keep the solution some time in a bottle? If I put an higher dose in water, can I just take a small amount for each batch and keep the rest in a closet?

Yeah, such a scale, if you can get them at a decent price, is a good tool to have. Alternatively, if you know someone who has one, or works in a lab, measure and pre-package a whole bunch in plastic baggies and (heat) seal. Keep the baggies in a glass jar with a well-sealing lid.

I don't know how long those K-Meta solutions remain stable and useful. I always had the impression they were short lived, but that may not be the case and can indeed last 18 months, which I read somewhere. Try to find some real data, I didn't search that deep.
Now once an acid is added, as they do to use it as a sanitizer, it will break down at a much faster rate while SO2 gas gets released.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Do you know how long those solutions of K-Meta last?

I've read K-Meta solutions lose potency over time, the sulfite slowly oxidizing or decomposing into other components, and toss them after 18 months, which seems very arbitrary

Store in well a well-sealed glass bottle perhaps, away from light?
At least the water should be deoxygenated, me thinks.
And of a neutral pH, definitely not acidic, as acids drive the SO2 out of solution, which is typically done when using K-Meta as a sanitizer, or when added to (acidic) wine to kill yeast.

A sulfite solution can lose potency relatively quickly (within hours to days) depending on the level of oxygen exposure. I wouldn't suggest keeping it more than a few days. The vapor is corrosive, so it shouldn't be stored in any metal container. The powder should generally be replaced every 6-12 months.

Sulfite - **************** wiki

 

[Jeff Wilson]

The powder should generally be replaced every 6-12 months.

Yeah, I can attest to this at least anecdotally. I have never found (full disclosure: moderately looked) precise details on how long it lasts in dry form or proper storage though I have always kept it in closed containers or zip top baggies in a drawer away from sunlight (again, (full disclosure: for convenient storage more than preservation).

That said, I had a string of cloudy wines that I had serious trouble clearing. They'd clear, then would turn cloudy. Stumped my LHBS and nothing I did could stop it from happening. Wasn't until I started to realize that clear wines were getting cloudy in late racking or when I wanted to bottle that I figured the only thing I was doing was either adding Camden tablets or both tablets and potassium sorbate when attempting to stabilize before bottling. I bought a new batch of tablets and problem went away.

No idea how old the tablets were. Wasn't a bad batch because I had been using them for a while successfully, but now I buy in smaller amounts and am mindful of how old they are.

 

[>==°>]

Ok so I needed to buy new campden too as the bag I have is like 3 years old ^^
Thanks for the wiki, interesting info!

 

[IslandLizard]

Sulfite - **************** wiki

Thank you for the Wiki link. Lots of good helpful info all in one place.
Wonder why the G-machine didn't show that... needs more clicks?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Thank you for the Wiki link. Lots of good helpful info all in one place.
Wonder why the G-machine didn't show that... needs more clicks?

Search engine ranking of a page is largely influenced by the number and quality of websites that link to it. My site is new and I haven't yet been doing anything to promote other sites linking to it.

However, links on HBT and many other sites with user-generated content do not affect search engine ranking because these sites specifically tell the search engines not to allow user-generated links to influence ranking. That helps prevent spam.

 

[DoctorCAD]

They're close, chemically they work the same, and can be interchangeably used for this purpose. The Sulfite part does the work. That's the important part.

However, there's a small difference:
Campden is Sodium MetaBisulfite, the other is the Potassium equivalent, Potassium MetaBisulfite, also named KMeta or K-Meta.

K = the element symbol for Potassium (Kalium)
Na = the element symbol for Sodium (Natrium)

Everything else @Yooper said is accurate, as always. ^

Campden is potassium metabisulfite, not sodium metabisulfite

 

[RPh_Guy]

Campden is potassium metabisulfite, not sodium metabisulfite

Actually, Campden tablets may be either the sodium or potassium salt, and they come in different strengths. It's important to look at the particular product you are purchasing. .... As I mentioned in the article linked above.

 

[Yooper]

Actually, Campden tablets may be either the sodium or potassium salt, and they come in different strengths. It's important to look at the particular product you are purchasing. .... As I mentioned in the article linked above.

Yes, that's true. I'm speaking at HomebrewCon tomorrow, and will be discussing k-meta/Na-meta/Campden to help alleviate some of the confusion among wine/mead/cider makers.

 

[RPh_Guy]

Yes, that's true. I'm speaking at HomebrewCon tomorrow, and will be discussing k-meta/Na-meta/Campden to help alleviate some of the confusion among wine/mead/cider makers.

Good. There's a ton of misinformation and confusion out there about sulfite!

 

[Yooper]

Good. There's a ton of misinformation and confusion out there about sulfite!

It's only going to be about 5-7 minutes where I have time to discuss it, but I'm happy to at least bring up some points about the misconceptions and usage. This is about wine/mead/cider, and not beer, but I'll hopefully be able to lightly touch on that as well.