California lager yeast fermenting too high

[Jamie02173]

I am brewing 2 lagers that are fermenting in my chest freezer and i have no cold space for more batches. I decided to brew a hybrid california common, using california lager yeast.
My apartment is usully around 60f so i assumed i could ferment in ambient. I used 2 dried sachets and pitched at 60f but for 24 hours it fermented very vigourously and reached as high as 73f. Im assuming the temp will lower as the fermentation has slowed after 48 hours.
will this damage my beer? Any previous experiences? Would lowering the temp now matter?

 

[Miraculix]

No, brew on.

 

[Jamie02173]

No, brew on.

I just thought 73f was a little high for lager its my first time using it

 

[Jag75]

Get a cold wet towel and wrap the fv next time. Works like a charm

 

[Beer666]

Temperature Is fine. Just keep it stable. Had great results using it. Very clean.

 

[jdauria]

That's high for a lager, but Cal lager yeast being a hybrid is able to ferment in the 60's... it may not be as crisp as a true lager, but should still be good. Google "swamp cooler" for a way to control lager temps without a ferm chamber for next time.

 

[AzOr]

I am brewing 2 lagers that are fermenting in my chest freezer and i have no cold space for more batches. I decided to brew a hybrid california common, using california lager yeast.
My apartment is usully around 60f so i assumed i could ferment in ambient. I used 2 dried sachets and pitched at 60f but for 24 hours it fermented very vigourously and reached as high as 73f. Im assuming the temp will lower as the fermentation has slowed after 48 hours.
will this damage my beer? Any previous experiences? Would lowering the temp now matter?

Wow, that’s quite a bit of difference. The biggest difference I’ve ever noticed from ambient to actual temp was 7f. I have never used that yeast though.
Most “regular” yeast, the diff was never higher than 4 or 5(f) degrees. The highest diff was a kveik. The ambient temp was 70f, fern temp was 77f.

 

[VikeMan]

I just thought 73f was a little high for lager its my first time using it

I'd say it is a bit high. But if there's any damage, it's already been done, i.e. reducing the temp at this point wouldn't help anything. That said, if you're going to ferment a lager yeast at 73F, 2112 is probably a better choice than most.

That's high for a lager, but Cal lager yeast being a hybrid is able to ferment in the 60's...

I guess it's a hybrid in the sense that all lager (pastorianus) strains are hybrids. But this one is no more/no less a hybrid than the others. I blame the (2008) BJCP guidelines for calling some styles "hybrid" styles when the yeast used in any of them is going to be an ale yeast or a lager yeast, not a hybrid of the two. I think they wisely dropped the terminology in the 2015 guidelines.

 

[jdauria]

I guess it's a hybrid in the sense that all lager (pastorianus) strains are hybrids. But this one is no more/no less a hybrid than the others. I blame the (2008) BJCP guidelines for calling some styles "hybrid" styles when the yeast used in any of them is going to be an ale yeast or a lager yeast, not a hybrid of the two. I think they wisely dropped the terminology in the 2015 guidelines.

True...did not state that properly, did mean it's used for hybrid styles at ale temps, Sometimes my brain is way behind my fingers.

 

[dmtaylor]

If you are talking about Mangrove Jack M54, I hypothesize that it's actually an altbier-style ale yeast anyway. If true, it should be good and low esters, albeit yeasty, slow to clear, and a little tart.

But I could be wrong. Especially if it's not M54 but some other brand!

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/16XRUloO3WXqH9Ixsf5vx2DIKDmrEQJ36tLRBmmya7Jo/edit?usp=sharing

 

[Jamie02173]

I used 2 sachets of M54 the og was 1.068 and after 4 days its 1.018 so im guessing its nearly done fermenting as been sitting around 66f since the fermenting slowed after the first day so i bumped it up a bit to 71f with my heatmat and im thinking it could cold crash it pretty soon and let it condition and carb in the keg before bottling.. is this to soon?

 

[dmtaylor]

I used 2 sachets of M54 the og was 1.068 and after 4 days its 1.018 so im guessing its nearly done fermenting as been sitting around 66f since the fermenting slowed after the first day so i bumped it up a bit to 71f with my heatmat and im thinking it could cold crash it pretty soon and let it condition and carb in the keg before bottling.. is this to soon?

I think it will come down to about 1.014, and might take another week or two to get there. With this yeast strain, the last few points take a long time. I would keep it warm for at least another week. I think 66 F would be good enough, no need to apply extra heat to 71 F. Check gravity again in another 4-7 days. If it comes down to 1.016 or 1.017, it's still not done yet. If it stays exactly the same for several days, then it should be safe to cool down.

 

[Jamie02173]

I think it will come down to about 1.014, and might take another week or two to get there. With this yeast strain, the last few points take a long time. I would keep it warm for at least another week. I think 66 F would be good enough, no need to apply extra heat to 71 F. Check gravity again in another 4-7 days. If it comes down to 1.016 or 1.017, it's still not done yet. If it stays exactly the same for several days, then it should be safe to cool down.

Cool its no rush so ill keep it on hold and check the fg next week that should give it plenty of time. I brewed a pale ale 2 nights ago and left it in a bath of water with a damp towel and the temp has been perfect

 

[Miraculix]

I fermented this one above 30c, no problems, just a tiny bit of fruitiness.

And yes, the last points can take ages, better leaving it a week too long then risking gushers.

 

[rhys333]

I fermented this one above 30c, no problems, just a tiny bit of fruitiness.

And yes, the last points can take ages, better leaving it a week too long then risking gushers.

How long are we talking for M54 fermentation? Two weeks, give or take, or is it getting into 3724 territory?

I just used it for the first time yesterday. I have it in a cool part of the basement at 66F/19C, and it just started popping at the 24 hour mark. I was surprised, as I had read that it can be slow to start.

 

[Miraculix]

How long are we talking for M54 fermentation? Two weeks, give or take, or is it getting into 3724 territory?

I just used it for the first time yesterday. I have it in a cool part of the basement at 66F/19C, and it just started popping at the 24 hour mark. I was surprised, as I had read that it can be slow to start.

At the end I got nothing but trouble with this yeast. Repeatedly. I don't use it anymore. I'd leave it for two or three weeks. Make sure to over pitch and keep it warm.

 

[micraftbeer]

It might go without saying, but take good notes on your temperature and fermentation process. Even if this isn't the ideal or normal temperature, if you like the finished product, you'll want to recreate it.

I've had beers I was sure I screwed up, and they turned out great. Subsequent brews where I became "smarter", I struggled to recreate a particular success. Not always, but sometimes...

 

[rhys333]

Thanks for the responses @Miraculix @micraftbeer

Right now it's chugging along at 63F/17C. I think I'll watch for it slowing down, and then warm it up to ambient. If it gives me any trouble, I'm hitting it with some BE-134 slurry and it turns into a California saison.

 

[rhys333]

As you can see, I have everything under control with precision temperature modulation.

 

[rhys333]

Kegging today. I thought it was 2 weeks since brewday, but apparently I lost track of time and it's almost 3 weeks. I left it on my cool basement floor while it was actively fermenting, and it never got above 64F. That was for maybe 4 days. When it slowed down I warmed it up to 72F for another 4 or 5 days. I checked the gravity sample tonight, and it's gone from 1.048 to 1.006, so no trouble with stalling out. If anything, it overfermented (87% attn). It tastes clean and neutral, but not exactly lager-like.

 

[rhys333]

So, unfortunately this beer is a fusel .

I kept the temperature well within range, so I have no idea what went wrong. It tastes fine (lager-like), though I can detect solvent on the aroma. The issue is that just one beer causes a splitting headache the next day. This batch is probably going down the sink, and I have no plans to use M54 again.

EDIT: disregard. This beer turned out fine after all.

 

[Miraculix]

So, unfortunately this beer is a fusel .

I kept the temperature well within range, so I have no idea what went wrong. It tastes fine (lager-like), though I can detect solvent on the aroma. The issue is that just one beer causes a splitting headache the next day. This batch is probably going down the sink, and I have no plans to use M54 again.

Must have been the butternut squash!

 

[Miraculix]

Btw. We are taking about mangrove Jack California lager, aren't we?

 

[rhys333]

Must have been the butternut squash!

I suspect the butternut squash cartel are behind many things.

And, yep. MJ-54 Californian.

 

[rhys333]

I may have to retract the negative review I gave this yeast strain. After some conditioning, it's turned into a pretty solid beer.

 

[micraftbeer]

Examples like these are what I tell people about when I tell them my beer sucks, but I'm not gonna dump it until I need the keg!

 

[rhys333]

Examples like these are what I tell people about when I tell them my beer sucks, but I'm not gonna dump it until I need the keg!

I don't know why was headache-inducing whatever seems to have gone away. But I'll take it.

 

[An Ankoù]

MJ-M54 is one of my goto yeasts- THE goto yeast for a GPA. On the other hand, I can't get on with their M42, more often than not it makes the beer stink- that usually conditions out after a few months, but I don't risk it any more. It;s strange the way people have different experiences of different yeasts. I think they're more susceptible to local conditions than we imagine.

 

[Cheshire Cat]

I’ve used M54 for Mexican and Japanese lagers as well as Vienna lager and Dunkel with great results. It’s so versatile I always have a couple of packs in the fridge.