Buying my first setup

[MAiton]

I've been doing some reading for awhile now and I'm trying to get set up to brew some all grain batches in my basement at home. I'm fairly certain what I have planned for equipment but I do have a generic question that I'd like to clear up.

First off, here is the kettle I've settled on for a Hot Liquor Tank, Mash Tun and Boil Kettle.
10 Gallon Mash King
I do like the idea of 304 SS but I have no gripes with 200 series SS either. I plan to get one with a pickup tube, one with the Bazooka Drain and all three with the Blichmann Brewmometer.

My second consideration was the heating source. Since I'm in the basement, gas is out of the question so I've leaned toward electric. I considered drilling my new kettles for a heating element but I decided against punching holes in them because, after all, they are new and fairly pricey. Further research led me toward the Hotrod Heat Stick or the Avantco IC3500. But after reading the pros of induction heating, I finally settled on the Avantco because I understood scorching to be less and the kettles I'm going to purchase are already induction ready.
Avantco IC3500

Now to my question. My biggest concern in the whole process is scorching. I may be over what I intended to spend but I certainly don't want to go through all this trouble and have smokey tasting beer either! I considered a circulating pump for the boil kettle but I'd still like to avoid that for the time being. If I took the right precautions to keep sediment in the wort low and used muslin bags for the hops while continually stirring the boil kettle, will this guarantee that scorching is minimized/eliminated? Or will the wort be alright once the kettle starts a rolling boil?

Mike

 

[rlmiller10]

I think you are worried too much about hot spots. I have a much cheaper (read thinner) kettle that I use over gas. From the beer stone deposits I get I am certain I have hot spots. But I have never had any scorched flavors. And I don't stir the boil kettle. Wort will circulate naturally as it heat and that seems to be enough.

 

[MAiton]

I do tend to veer on the side of caution when I can. I guess I'd like to know how folks make out with the induction heating when combined with the Tri-clad bottom. I've read several saying positives and negatives but was specific whether their pots were induction ready.

 

[curtisbrewer]

are you dead set on induction brewing ? what are you planning for batch sizes ? are you planning on running the plate for the mash tun, will it have a false bottom ? if not your going to scorch the grain on the bottom .

i don't want to knock your plan , my buddy went the induction route a year ago and had elements in his kettles and was selling the hotplates within three months. i can't tell you from experience but 500 bucks in hot plates is a lot of money so make sure your research is thorough.

however, there are a lot of guys who use them habitually and love them, heres 85 pages of guys discussing the hot plate you are interested in using for your set up

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=301722&page=85

 

[MAiton]

are you dead set on induction brewing ? what are you planning for batch sizes ? are you planning on running the plate for the mash tun, will it have a false bottom ? if not your going to scorch the grain on the bottom .

I'm planning for 5 gallon batches but went with the 10 gallon kettles for room in the event of a boil over.

I've been watching many people brew online and there are several people that don't seem to be adding additional heat to their mashing processes. One individual in particular is using stainless kettles and states that he sees only a couple degrees drop in temperature over his process. They all seem to transfer their strike water, throw in their grain, stir until they feel that their mash is completely mixed and then let it sit for the duration. In this instance, I'd likely build some type of insulation barrier around the outside if I felt that it was losing too much heat. As for the false bottom, I did consider one but not so much to prevent scorching. I've read that the plate helps speed up the straining process when transferring to their boil kettles.

Mike

 

[curtisbrewer]

nice ! looks like you have it all figured out, start buying=) its always fun when building a stand and packages show up everyday. i would figure out something to make it easier to drain your mash tun. the 10 gallon kettles are nice , especially for when you want to up your batch by a gallon or two . i did some quick reading and it seems like the induction plate you've chosen is very widely used and a lot of people are happy with it.

good luck with your build !

 

[mredge73]

An induction system will distribute heat pretty evenly so no worries on scorching.
You will also have no scorching if you use an ultra low watt density heating element in combination with a hot rod.
Scorching is more of a concern with a rims system (in event of low flow), a heated mash tun, or high density elements.
You cannot circulate the boil kettle at boiling temp; pump will cavitate.
No need to stir, the boiling action will keep things moving.
With the hot rod you will need to invest in a controller of some type; I believe the induction cookers come with variable control built in.

I would invest in a 15 gallon boil kettle so you have the capacity to do 10 gal batches.
10 gallon HLT and Mash tun will provide enough capacity to handle 10 gallon batches.

I don't know what others have told you but my keggles drop 15-20F per hour if left alone. I use a SS mash tun and continuously circulate it through a HERMS system employed in my HLT.
I didn't start this way, first I just direct fire heated it with gas but this caused bad grain scorching. I then built a circulating RIMS system; but had issues scouring the element and scorching wort on a stuck mash.
I tell you this because if you use a SS kettle for your mash tun you will need to find a way to add heat to it if you are concerned about holding mash temp.
Also, you will not be happy with the bazooka screen on your mash tun. They don't even work well on a brew kettle as hops clog them quickly.

What is your cooling plan? Cleaning plan?

 

[MAiton]

An induction system will distribute heat pretty evenly so no worries on scorching.
You will also have no scorching if you use an ultra low watt density heating element in combination with a hot rod.
Scorching is more of a concern with a rims system (in event of low flow), a heated mash tun, or high density elements.
You cannot circulate the boil kettle at boiling temp; pump will cavitate.
No need to stir, the boiling action will keep things moving.
With the hot rod you will need to invest in a controller of some type; I believe the induction cookers come with variable control built in.

What are people using for a controller with the HotRod? I haven't seen much as far as that goes.

I would invest in a 15 gallon boil kettle so you have the capacity to do 10 gal batches.
10 gallon HLT and Mash tun will provide enough capacity to handle 10 gallon batches.

Now that you've mentioned it, I may have to go this route!

I don't know what others have told you but my keggles drop 15-20F per hour if left alone. I use a SS mash tun and continuously circulate it through a HERMS system employed in my HLT.
I didn't start this way, first I just direct fire heated it with gas but this caused bad grain scorching. I then built a circulating RIMS system; but had issues scouring the element and scorching wort on a stuck mash.
I tell you this because if you use a SS kettle for your mash tun you will need to find a way to add heat to it if you are concerned about holding mash temp.
Also, you will not be happy with the bazooka screen on your mash tun. They don't even work well on a brew kettle as hops clog them quickly.

I have read quite a few complaints on the bazooka so I'll likely end up with the false bottom screen in the mash tun instead.

What is your cooling plan? Cleaning plan?

I intended to build my own immersion cooler out of copper. They work well even though a plate chiller would be more convenient. As far as cleaning, I haven't focused as much on this as I should have. The only thing I intend to get is three way valves on my kettles so that they can be taken apart and cleaned throughly.

Mike

 

[PADave]

In this instance, I'd likely build some type of insulation barrier around the outside if I felt that it was losing too much heat.

I wrap an old winter coat around my kettle, doesn't drop more than a degree over an hour. I've heard of others using a sleeping bag.

 

[MAiton]

I wrap an old winter coat around my kettle, doesn't drop more than a degree over an hour. I've heard of others using a sleeping bag.

That's good to hear. I'd like to try insulating before I even considered a circulating setup

 

[mredge73]

Controllers for elements go anywhere from a homemade $20 rheostat controller, a $50 PID controller, all the way up to $3500 control panels.
I have a 3 vessel system that uses a BCS-460 to run 2x 5500w elements (HLT and BOIL) and one pump. I probably have $500-$600 invested in controls and elements.

For a single element system you can get a PID with SSR for about $30 on ebay. Add another $20 for a box, cabling, and plug.
You will want a SS ULWD element, those go for ~$20 for standard base ~$40 for SS base. You will need a way to get it in the kettle and protect the wiring from water; $60-$80.
You will need a thermowell ~$12 on each kettle being controlled for temperature feedback.
This assumes you have a 240vac supply nearby; do you have an electric dryer in the basement?
Otherwise you will need to run a new line from your main, I would recommend a 30-50A spa panel run with 4C#10 wire because you will want to add a second element eventually.

Brewhardware and Brewershardware have the best equipment and prices when I was shopping for this stuff.
Ebrewsupply is newer shop that you should also check out.

 

[mredge73]

Immersion cooler won't work well with thermowells and elements mounted in the kettle. They don't work well on an empty kettle either.
Skip the plate chiller; although they are very efficient and a significant upgrade compared to an immersion cooler; it is very hard to keep hop debris out of it. More people have had luck with a counter flow chiller; my HERMS system doubles as a cooler in my setup.

 

[jrcrilly]

If you don't recirculate you should be able to manage MLT temperature with insulation (or, probably better, use a cooler MT). Once you start recirculating you will need to have a way to add heat to the MT to make up temperature losses in the pump and hoses. That is when you will have to consider scorching issues. A good false bottom and a little care will permit directly heated RIMS. A good controller will permit externally heated RIMS. Or go completely safe with HERMS. Either of the latter two options would let you keep the cooler mash tun if you use one.

 

[jrcrilly]

I would invest in a 15 gallon boil kettle so you have the capacity to do 10 gal batches.
10 gallon HLT and Mash tun will provide enough capacity to handle 10 gallon batches.

If you go to a 15g boil kettle, I'd boost the MLT to 15g as well. I haven't done the math to see what the max 10g gravity would be with a 10g mash tun but I find that my 15g mash tun is usually filled to way over the 10g line for the recipes I make.

 

[mredge73]

High gravity brews may very well fill it up. I guess it depends on what you brew and how you calculate your water requirements.
I have never needed more than 7 gallons on either my HLT or Mash tun doing 10 gallon batches. However I have never done a high gravity 10 gallon batch requiring over 25 lbs of grain and 90 min boils; my 10 gallon batches are usually light summer beers that drink quickly.

 

[MAiton]

Immersion cooler won't work well with thermowells and elements mounted in the kettle. They don't work well on an empty kettle either.
Skip the plate chiller; although they are very efficient and a significant upgrade compared to an immersion cooler; it is very hard to keep hop debris out of it. More people have had luck with a counter flow chiller; my HERMS system doubles as a cooler in my setup.

I've been looking up many versions of counter-flow chillers and that may be a good route for the future. Youtube has some good examples of DYI chillers that seem to have had good results

 

[MAiton]

If you don't recirculate you should be able to manage MLT temperature with insulation (or, probably better, use a cooler MT). Once you start recirculating you will need to have a way to add heat to the MT to make up temperature losses in the pump and hoses. That is when you will have to consider scorching issues. A good false bottom and a little care will permit directly heated RIMS. A good controller will permit externally heated RIMS. Or go completely safe with HERMS. Either of the latter two options would let you keep the cooler mash tun if you use one.

I think I will buy a false bottom for my MT when I order. It'll be worth it up front and in the long run.