Bucket Insert For Non-Trub Racking?

[GHBWNY]

For awhile now, I've been kicking around ideas in my head <ouch> re: an insert for my 6.5 gal. ferm bucket that will prevent sucking up trub while racking to bottling bucket. Problem I've had up til now is that in a basically opaque plastic bucket, the wort is so dark I can't see the end of the racking cane or tell precisely how far away from the trub the tip of the cane is. If there was a surface in the murky depths of your wort you knew in advance was above the trub upon which you could safely set the end of the cane while the majority of liquid was transferred (at least until visibility becomes possible) it would virtually eliminate the liability of sucking up trub.

What I am imagining is a round screen of sorts, maybe on adjustable legs (or fixed height of 1"?), the top surface of which will theoretically sit above the trub and allow me to rest the tip of the racking cane on it while transferring without disturbing the trub. It could be as simple as a round piece of SS mesh on legs or a lip. The mesh would not impede fermentation and would be easy to insert, remove and clean/sanitize.

I've searched both here and online and haven't found anything like it available. Is the idea totally off-the-wall or not? If anyone knows of anything similar, I'd appreciate a pic, link, etc..

If not, I'm going to invent it --- maybe I just did? --- and call it...

"The TruBuster".

 

[number40fan]

Are you thinking of something like the false bottom?

 

[GHBWNY]

Are you thinking of something like the false bottom?

In principle, yes, but since they are a plate with 100s of little holes drilled in it, IMO, the surface area of the space between the holes can collect unwanted trub.

I'm talking about a simple circular piece of thin wire screen similar in appearance to "hardware cloth" (but made of SS, not galv. and welded, not woven) like what is used in rabbit pens, around gardens, etc., with enough spacing between the wires so that the trub has nowhere to collect and can fall through. And the end of the cane can't. And it would be supported on some kind of simple legs.

EDIT: I just found a brewer's blog site in which a guy was doing exactly (imagine that!) what I've described above, but using it in the brewpot (BIAB app) and not the ferm bucket. Maybe he'd be interested in a name for his device...

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Start your transfer, ( in the trub, if need be), and do not move the racking cane again.

Find some way to secure it to the side of your ferm bucket so that it stays in one spot.

It will "self clearance" a well in there, and transfer only the "trub from the well".

That's how I do it, but I keg, so it has some more settling time.
If you bottle, you are going to have some sediment in your bottles in the end, yes?

Stir up what you transferred with your priming solution, and bottle away!

Your racking cane will only suck up so much, if you do not move it after your transfer starts.

 

[MindenMan]

I make lots of dark beers, I don't use a siphon, and my liquid loss to trub is almost zero. After my BK is cool, I rack the contents through stacked paint screens , the hot and cold break create their own fine filter, and my loss is maybe 2 tbl. in total. When fermentation is done, I cold crash the fermenter with the spout side elevated, so when the volume starts getting low the trub is on the other side, so to speak. If am being greedy, I do get a little sediment in each bottle, but you almost have to shake them to stir up the sediment. I use Irish Moss @15, and couldn't be happier.

 

[Hamaki]

A simple approach would be to attach something to the end of your siphon that rests on the bottom and holds your siphon intake an inch (or whatever you like) off the bottom.

 

[wilserbrewer]

Good racking technique can really minimize the amount of trub and yeast transferred out of the fermenter. For me a racking cane clip that secures the cane at the top of the fermenter is key. I have found the best method is to begin racking with the cane several inches above the bottom of the fermenter, then very slowly slide the cane downward while watching the clear tubing where it attaches to the cane. As you lower the cane slowly, you will notice tiny bits of yeast being sucked up, this means you are right above the yeast cake, carefully raise the cane 1/4 - 1/2 inch and continue to transfer the clear beer, when you get near the bottom and can see the tip of the cane you can tip the fermenter if you want the last little bit of beer.

Cold crashing will compact the yeast cake and make it easier to do a clean rack as well.

With practice you can rack and only transfer the tiniest bit of yeast that is insignificant IMO.

 

[watersr]

I have seen people secure a stainless steel dish scrubby to the end of the racking cane to act as a filter.

 

[GHBWNY]

Good racking technique can really minimize the amount of trub and yeast transferred out of the fermenter. For me a racking cane clip that secures the cane at the top of the fermenter is key. I have found the best method is to begin racking with the cane several inches above the bottom of the fermenter, then very slowly slide the cane downward while watching the clear tubing where it attaches to the cane. As you lower the cane slowly, you will notice tiny bits of yeast being sucked up, this means you are right above the yeast cake, carefully raise the cane 1/4 - 1/2 inch and continue to transfer the clear beer, when you get near the bottom and can see the tip of the cane you can tip the fermenter if you want the last little bit of beer.

Cold crashing will compact the yeast cake and make it easier to do a clean rack as well.

With practice you can rack and only transfer the tiniest bit of yeast that is insignificant IMO.

This is essentially what I've always done, initially placing the tip of the cane an estimated few inches above the trub, but I don't clip it in place, but continue moving it down as it the level of the wort goes down. However, it would be nice to be able to push the end of the cane down so it stops on something you know would be close to, but above the trub, clip the cane to the side of the bucket and leave to do something else while the beer "self-racked" til nearly done without being attended to. I CC and clear, so I get almost nil trub in the bottle.

 

[johngaltsmotor]

I ended up making my own racking cane with a piece of SS tubing. I bent the end of it so that when it is placed in the fermenter the open end of the tube is pointing up (bend the tube ~120deg). When you sit it on the bottom the opening is still above the trub and it draws down so it doesn't disturb the yeast cake.

The problem with anything like this is that if you have a different amount of trub (more hops, less floculant yeast, etc) then the distance is different. If you put in a screen at the wrong height you could be needless giving up good beer.

 

[GHBWNY]

I ended up making my own racking cane with a piece of SS tubing. I bent the end of it so that when it is placed in the fermenter the open end of the tube is pointing up (bend the tube ~120deg). When you sit it on the bottom the opening is still above the trub and it draws down so it doesn't disturb the yeast cake.

The problem with anything like this is that if you have a different amount of trub (more hops, less floculant yeast, etc) then the distance is different. If you put in a screen at the wrong height you could be needless giving up good beer.

That's cool. How long is the end of the cane after the bend?

 

[johngaltsmotor]

That's cool. How long is the end of the cane after the bend?

I'll measure and snap a picture tonight to post tomorrow.

 

[flamingBurrito]

Car detailers use a thing called a grit guard on the bottom of buckets when washing cars to keep small rocks and grit from scratching their cars that is basically exactly what you're looking for. Probably not food safe though. http://amzn.com/B000N3W8J0


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

[Thakaz]

A simple approach would be to attach something to the end of your siphon that rests on the bottom and holds your siphon intake an inch (or whatever you like) off the bottom.

You can do this with a cork cage.

 

[poptarts]

why not just attack a bar of some sort to the side of your racking cane / auto siphon so not allow it to go down any deeper.

 

[hunter_le five]

I've always found that as long as you keep the racking cane perfectly still, you can get a minimal amount of trub even if you stick the cane right into the trub.

Stick it in, it'll suck up the trub immediately around the cane mouth, and then it's clear beer after that as long as you don't move it again. But just the same, I try to hold it steady right at the top of the cake.

With a good racking cane and clamp, I have no need for any sort filters or strainers to get clear beer out of the fermenter.

I have seen people secure a stainless steel dish scrubby to the end of the racking cane to act as a filter.

I prefer the copper dish scrubbers myself, but perhaps I should just chalk that up to a remnant of my crack-cocaine habit.

 

[GHBWNY]

I racked to secondary last night and thought about all these suggestions. Like always, since I couldn't see the bottom of the bucket, nor the depth of the trub, I held the cane against the inside of the bucket wall with the tip well off the bottom and moved it down as the wort went down. Not until there was an inch or less left in the bucket could I actually see the trub and where the tip was in relation to it. As always, I was able to carefully tip the bucket to suck the last little bit of beer out, but there has to be an easier way to just shove the tip of the cane down onto something I know is above the trub and then secure it to the side of the bucket, getting 99% of the wort racked without messing with it in the process.

Piggy-backing on poptarts idea, how about making a "point" for the tip of the cane by heating a pin and carefully pushing it into the plastic tip of the cane and then nipping it off at the desired length? Hey, someone try it and let me know how it works!

 

[johngaltsmotor]

That's cool. How long is the end of the cane after the bend?

 

[nutty_gnome]

I made a tool that has helped my racking immensely. I found that the best beer comes from the dead center of the bucket and is most efficiently extracted in a hands-free manner!

The parts are cheap - you probably have the items hanging around already.

1 – a spare bucket lid that fits or at least rests comfortably on the bucket you want to rack from.
1 - PCV threaded stub out with the square top. See pics. It’s like 4 bucks at home depot. I think I got a 5 or 6 inch diameter size. you choose what fits.
1 - small sliding wood clamp - see pics - again a few bucks at home depot
1 - auto siphon. Mine is the half inch variety. 3/8 inch would work too with proper hole planning
1 - o-ring from the plumbing section or even a rubber band to go around the outside of the auto siphon. It will not touch the beer. It is a back up device/depth gauge.
1 - Some small stainless machine screws, nuts, and washers - see pic.
2 - picture hanging hooks - small, threaded - optional
1 - anything else I forgot that makes sense. -optional?

So basically, you drill a hole in the spare lid that is a bit larger than the OD of main plastic tube of your auto siphon. It has to be a bit larger than that to accommodate the black cap at the bottom. So make sure your auto siphon will go through the hole in the lid with no drama.

Then drill a hole the same size as the outside of your autosiphon in the square cap of the PVC pipe cap. See pics. A hole saw, step bit or a dremel would work. Knives and carving would be a pain.

Then cut the PVC pipe cap in half straight through the middle of the hole so that it is in two equal pieces. I used a coping saw. By cutting through the hole you drilled, you are making the hole smaller than the outer diameter of the auto siphon tubeby the width of the saw blade. So if you pinched the two pieces of the PVC pipe cap around the auto siphon, it would hold the siphon by friction. Try it!

Gently clean up the pvc’s sharp edges with a tool of your choice (sandpaper, scraping knife, whatever).
Then bolt one half of the pvc pipe cap to the lid with 2 or 3 screws so that the holes will align right over each other.

As an optional thing, you can use one of the longer bolts and the picture hanging hooks like I did and secure the other piece of the pvc pipe cap to it so that it has lots of freedom to move around. Basically it won't get lost.

Now, to use it, put the lid over the bucket of interest. I do not bother to press the seal down, it is stable just resting on the bucket in the lid’s groove. Insert the siphon about halfway in through the hole in the lid. Then use your wood clamp to pinch the two pieces of PVC together around the tube.

Roll the o-ring- rubber band to just over the cap so that if something goes wrong or you are ham-handed, it won’t fall into the beer. Or just go commando and don’t worry about it.

Start the siphon and then loosen the clamp with one hand and carefully drop the siphon to the desired depth with the other. Tighten clamp and there you go, hands off siphoning from the middle of the bucket!

Smart people will ask –
Hey,why didn’t you just put a hole in the lid and run the oring to the right depth? Answer – the weight of the full tubing and the leverage of the tubing going over the side of the bucket will cause problems. Using the PVC cap and the hole in the lid essentially braces the autosyphin against two firm points so it can’t tilt.

Um, I have a carboy… will it work? Sure. Modify the build with an apron of PVC pipe that circles the neck of the carboy but below the pvc pipe cap and post pics when you got ‘em!

Hey, I could do the same thing with two 2x2 hardwood sticks laid across the top of the bucket and a few thumbscrews between them to hold the siphon in place in the middle. Didncha think of that? - Yes, I did. It isn't elegant.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Bravo!
I dig it!

 

[GHBWNY]

Being a novice brewer, I didn't expect much of a response to this trub-busting post. Evidence that for every situation in brewing, there are many possible solutions. Thanks for all the great ideas, folks!

 

[dan_bowman]

What about moving your fermentor, carboy, or bottling bucket? Do you let it sit before doing work (for how long)?

I have my primary in the basement, which I carry upstairs to transfer to secondary (carboy). Put the secondary back in the basement for two weeks. Move the secondary (carboy) upstairs again to transfer to bottling bucket.

Do others have a stationary setup that does not require all this transport? We bottled a beer last night and all the sediment in the bottles is driving me crazy.

 

[johngaltsmotor]

I ferment wherever this is currently free space. Then a day or 2 before transferring I sit it on the washing machine and let it settle out whatever I stirred up. (It's the perfect height and I don't mind if I spill a little there). If it's been cold crashed I normally only let it sit for an hour or so because everything is so well settle it doesn't seem to stir up at all.

 

[dan_bowman]

I ferment wherever this is currently free space. Then a day or 2 before transferring I sit it on the washing machine and let it settle out whatever I stirred up. (It's the perfect height and I don't mind if I spill a little there). If it's been cold crashed I normally only let it sit for an hour or so because everything is so well settle it doesn't seem to stir up at all.

Thanks for the input

 

[Brettomomyces]

Count me in the "do nothing" boat. Cold crashing definitely is one of the best things you can do to reduce trub/waste pickup, especially if you can crash for a couple days ahead of time. If you need to move your fermenter, moving it a few hours ahead of time helps as well, but that depends on how far you need to go and if it's cold already.

When I'm siphoning, I take a 2L pitcher, start my siphon, and run the beer into the pitcher until it runs clear, which is usually a little less than a pint, then I move the siphon into the keg and let it run from there. Now my racking cane is sitting in a trub-free little spot in my fermenter. And I have something to sip while the beer transfers

 

[GHBWNY]

...I sit it on the washing machine and let it settle out whatever I stirred up. (It's the perfect height and I don't mind if I spill a little there)....QUOTE]

Same.

Brett - like the method for siphoning! Resourceful if not tasty! I'll have to give it a try.

 

[dan_bowman]

Count me in the "do nothing" boat. Cold crashing definitely is one of the best things you can do to reduce trub/waste pickup, especially if you can crash for a couple days ahead of time. If you need to move your fermenter, moving it a few hours ahead of time helps as well, but that depends on how far you need to go and if it's cold already.

When I'm siphoning, I take a 2L pitcher, start my siphon, and run the beer into the pitcher until it runs clear, which is usually a little less than a pint, then I move the siphon into the keg and let it run from there. Now my racking cane is sitting in a trub-free little spot in my fermenter. And I have something to sip while the beer transfers

I like that idea too.

 

[GHBWNY]

TRUB-BUSTER Update:

As per original post, my problem has been that when racking from the ferm bucket to the bottling bucket, the combination of both the opaque walls of the bucket and the relatively dark color of the beer --- and therefore not knowing exactly how deep or how thick the trub layer is --- doesn't let me know how deep to set the tip of my racking cane without disturbing/sucking up trub.

So, I went online and purchased a 12" x 12" piece of #4 (.047) 304 SS wire mesh @ $13. (figured the wider holes would let more trub through, plus it would be sturdier). When it arrived, I placed the bottom of my ferm bucket on it and traced around it with a marker. Then with tin snips, I cut out the circle slightly smaller than the line. Then I bent a slight dome into it and fit it into the bucket.

Next time I brew, I'll sanitize it and right after pitching and aeration, drop it in and see if my theory works.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Don't you want to drop it in before racking, so it rests on top of the trub?

I'm guessing you were looking for a "stop" for your racking cane, yes?

 

[wobdee]

Why not just get rid of the racking canes and install a spigot in your bucket just above the usual trub line?

 

[wilserbrewer]

I think fabricating a stop screen in an effort to not siphon trub is over thinking it .....by a lot

All you need IME is a clip on your racking cane, start siphoning the beer with the end of the cane several inches above the yeast cake. Slowly slide the cane down about an 1/8 inch at a time, when you are barely above the cake, you will start to see the slightest dusting inside the clear tubing, raise cane about a 1/4 inch.

Very clean effortless technique.

 

[GHBWNY]

I think fabricating a stop screen in an effort to not siphon trub is over thinking it .....by a lot

All you need IME is a clip on your racking cane, start siphoning the beer with the end of the cane several inches above the yeast cake. Slowly slide the cane down about an 1/8 inch at a time, when you are barely above the cake, you will start to see the slightest dusting inside the clear tubing, raise cane about a 1/4 inch.

Very clean effortless technique.

That's what I do now, but I don't want to stand there for 10-15 minutes monitoring/adjusting the cane. Just want to set it and forget it while I spend the 10-15 minutes doing something else, like cleaning/sanitizing bottles.

 

[GHBWNY]

Don't you want to drop it in before racking, so it rests on top of the trub?

I'm guessing you were looking for a "stop" for your racking cane, yes?

I want to drop it in before ferm so everything will have a couple weeks to settle beneath it before racking to bottling bucket. I also cold-crash and gelatin for a few days after ferm is complete. Call me a stickler for super-clear beer, but it works. If I "drop" it into the ferm bucket just prior to racking to the bottling bucket, it could stir things up.

Yes, it is a "stop" for my racking cane that I can be confident is above the trub without seeing it. I can push the tip of my racking cane all the way to the bottom, clip it to the side and forget it for 10 minutes while I do other things.

 

[Stealthcruiser]

Hmmmm.......Just seemed counter intuitive to me I guess.

Unless, The false bottom is elevated, ( which I may have missed, domed, etc...), a set amount.

If not, after the ferment, it will be just like resting your racking cane on the bottom of the bucket, won't it?

 

[GHBWNY]

Hmmmm.......Just seemed counter intuitive to me I guess. Unless, the false bottom is elevated, (which I may have missed, domed, etc...), a set amount.

Domed (post #28).

 

[GHBWNY]

"TruBuster 6000" Update

So, I bought myself a 12" X 12" piece of #4 (.047) 304 stainless steel wire mesh from ebay ($13.). I cut a circle out of it just slightly smaller than the inside of my ferm bucket. Then I bent an approximate 1/2" "dome" into it. Right after pitching and aerating the wort, I sanitized it and dropped it in. When it came to bottling time, I set the end of my racking cane in the middle of the bucket --- all the way to the bottom. The tip of the cane nested into the grid and there I left it while it siphoned. Only at the very end did I move it closer to the edge to get the last of the beer. Worked like a dream; no trub whatsoever.