Bubbling after re-racking?

[Mencken]

Hey, I just racked a Honey Brown into a secondary after about 18 days in the primary. One thing I noticed was there was a LOT of sediment still in the beer (i.e. not just settled on the bottom, or at the top). So I fully expect to have to use a tertiary to get the clarity I want.

About the beer itself. I used honey, and I added it during the cooldown phase, when the temp was around 135 and dropping. The initial activity (as indicated by the airlock) was VERY aggressive, and very quick. It started in about an hour, and bubbled very aggressively for 24 hours, then almost no bubbles.

I should also note that I took it out from the closet several hours before racking, so any sediment disturbed whilst moving could settle again. At this time, the airlock started going again, and kept going at about 1 bubble/5 seconds. I do know that airlock activity can mean lots of things, but I should also note that the place it was moved to is only 2-3 degrees warmer than the other place, not significantly so. I just say this because it may offer some more insight into what's going on.

OG was 1.060. 18 days later, the FG was 1.020, which is higher than I expected, but I chalk that partly up to the amount of sediment in the beer itself. I used DCL Yeast S-33 SafBrew Ale, and I pitched two packets after activating them in water.

The question I have is: Now that I've re-racked it, there is definitely some action going on now. It is bubbling again (the beer, I mean, not just the airlock). I've never actually seen fermentation in action, as I ferment in plastic buckets, so perhaps it's that? But I'm also worried I oxygenated it somehow. I didn't do anything different in racking this one than I have in the 8 other batches I've done, so I don't know what's going on. Here's a couple pics of the beer as it is now:

Anyone know what's going on? Or have any guesses? Thanks!

 

[SmugMug]

It's definitely ruined. Better send it this way for proper disposal. Sorry for your loss.

 

[MikeG]

I would think those bubbles are CO2 caused by one of two things: CO2 in solution is simply coming out (beer is getting warmer) or the yeasties were woke up and found more sugar to ferment. If CO2 is coming out you've got a nice protected layer to keep O2 off it, nothing to worry about.

 

[Mencken]

In the time it took me to write my first post, this is how it looks now:

 

[MikeG]

Looks like krausen to me, let us know what your FG is when it stops.

 

[Mencken]

It's definitely ruined. Better send it this way for proper disposal. Sorry for your loss.

That's very nice of you. I'll send it asap.

I would think those bubbles are CO2 caused by one of two things: CO2 in solution is simply coming out (beer is getting warmer) or the yeasties were woke up and found more sugar to ferment. If CO2 is coming out you've got a nice protected layer to keep O2 off it, nothing to worry about.

Good to hear. So it doesn't look like I oxygenated it somehow?

 

[Mencken]

Looks like krausen to me, let us know what your FG is when it stops.

Interesting, so if it's fermenting again, what sort of timeline should I look at? Should I consider today a reset of the timeline, and wait my normal time period (two-three weeks primary, 1 week secondary) or is this more of a mini session?

 

[IrregularPulse]

Just looks like it's releasing Co2 from being sloshed around. Could have also re-suspended yeast and reactivated fermentation. Let it go in secondary for a few more days. As for as clearing, Once fermentation is done you cna cold crash it for a few days. This will help clearing significantly.


***Wow, 5 questions form when I started typing till clicking submit!***

 

[OrvilleOrdinary]

When you rack your beer, siphon or no, you're inevitably going to kick some yeast back up into suspension, and that's going to re-initiate some fermentation, which is what you're observing now. I don't think VISUAL evidence of oxidized beer exists -- it's more of a taste thing. And to put you a bit at ease, it's harder than you think to oxidize your beer.

the FG was 1.020, which is higher than I expected, but I chalk that partly up to the amount of sediment in the beer itself.

The sediment is not going to effect your gravity reading. The hydrometer measures dissolved sugars in the solution. The sediment at the bottom, or at the top, or floating around, isn't going to effect that reading. So it looks like this extra bit of fermentation you're getting in secondary is just what you need!

 

[bbrim]

Definitely looks like fermentation! I think you may have roused some dormant yeast. Some yeast likes to clump up and float around while fermenting, this could be the sediment you see. I think you will likely drop a few more gravity points and have a tasty beer on your hands! RDWHAHB.

 

[SmugMug]

That's very nice of you. I'll send it asap.

Hey, I'm just here to support my brew making brethren. I'm here for you man.

 

[Mencken]

The sediment is not going to effect your gravity reading. The hydrometer measures dissolved sugars in the solution. The sediment at the bottom, or at the top, or floating around, isn't going to effect that reading. So it looks like this extra bit of fermentation you're getting in secondary is just what you need!

But doesn't the hydrometer simply measure the density of the liquid, and it's just calibrated/shaped to indicate SG? If it's just measuring density, then wouldn't stuff actually floating in the liquid not affect the density of the sample?

 

[OrvilleOrdinary]

Interesting, so if it's fermenting again, what sort of timeline should I look at? Should I consider today a reset of the timeline, and wait my normal time period (two-three weeks primary, 1 week secondary) or is this more of a mini session?

Don't worry about timelines. Just go off hydrometer readings. Your hydrometer is the only thing that'll tell you for sure when fermentation is complete.

 

[Mencken]

Don't worry about timelines. Just go off hydrometer readings. Your hydrometer is the only thing that'll tell you for sure when fermentation is complete.

Heh, it told me it was complete before this racking too

 

[springer]

But doesn't the hydrometer simply measure the density of the liquid, and it's just calibrated/shaped to indicate SG? If it's just measuring density, then wouldn't stuff actually floating in the liquid not affect the density of the sample?

the only thing that will effect density is what is dissolved in the liquid in our case sugar . In a fish tank it would be salt for salt water fish ,stuff floating will only displace the liquid not change the density

 

[Revvy]

Good to hear. So it doesn't look like I oxygenated it somehow?

You can't see "oxygenated" it's something you taste, and it takes a LOT of splashing to do that...

THat is a krausen, and thought you usually don't see one in secondary, it is perfectly normal...

It means one of three things...

You racked too soon, and didn't wait for fermentation to stop for three days before you moved it to your "brite tank."

Your fermentation was stuck...which by you racking it when it was at 1.020, is more than likely the case. And that re-kicked up fermentation and it will finish. (In the future don't rack if it is that high...check it again in a few days, if it hasn't dropped, either rack it, or even better, don't rack, but lightly swirl the fermenter, or warm it up a bit to re-wake up the yeast.)

Or it wasn't stuck, but the yeasties weren't quite finished and the racking gave them an excuse for a carboy warming party.

It's all good...but one thing to remember, you are not in charge, the yeast are....Those "time tables" like the 1-2-3 rule are just generalizations, and they don't really take into consideration that with yeast you are dealing with living entities, and they have their own timeframe, and agenda, and they can be downright persnickety and petulent.

Since it didn't "feel" right to you that it was at 1.020, you shouldn't then have racked it...maybe you could have asked for advice from us BEFORE you did that...and this then wouldn't have been an "is my beer ruined" thread, and instead a "quick question" thread...and it could have saved you the worry....your instinct was dead on, but your action, though not terrible, wasn't necessarily the best....becasue it casue something that you worried about....and I firmly believe this is a hobby, and not something to lose sleep over.

But I do applaud you for using your hydro!!!!

Your beer is fine...just leave it for a couple weeks...

 

[FlyingHorse]

Honey ferments (a) almost completely and (b) slowly.

You don't say how much you used, but 1.060 -> 1.020 is only 67% attenuation; borderline not fully attenuated even for a non-honey brew. Depending on how much honey you added, your expected FG should probably be something more like 1.012-1.015.

Short answer: it wasn't done, and it's still fermenting.

 

[OrvilleOrdinary]

But doesn't the hydrometer simply measure the density of the liquid, and it's just calibrated/shaped to indicate SG? If it's just measuring density, then wouldn't stuff actually floating in the liquid not affect the density of the sample?

Yeah, you got it. That's what I meant when I said that the stuff floating around isn't going to affect the reading. The hydrometer only measures the density of the liquid, so if you throw a rock in there, it'll have no effect on your reading.

 

[OrvilleOrdinary]

Heh, it told me it was complete before this racking too.

Right, it indicated that it had stopped fermenting. But at 1.020, you could safely assume that it had a bit more fermenting to go, because that's a bit high... so, to amend what I said earlier, your hydrometer reading, COUPLED with being in close proximity to your FG, is the only indication of complete fermentation.

 

[Mencken]

Is it different with wine and mead than it is with beer? I was told that with wine/mead, fermentation goes for about 2 weeks, then it stops. But the FG continues to drop over the next 6 months or so, because the stuff keeps dropping out of the liquid. It's not fermenting any more, just clarifying, and this is why the FG continues to drop (so I've been told)

 

[Mencken]

FG was stable at 1.020 for 8 days. I figured that it was stuck, or possibly I had screwed up somewhere along the way. It was a partial mash, and I did let it get a little too hot during mashing, so I figured this may have killed some of the sugars.

I only used 1 lbs of clover honey.

 

[OrvilleOrdinary]

Is it different with wine and mead than it is with beer? I was told that with wine/mead, fermentation goes for about 2 weeks, then it stops. But the FG continues to drop over the next 6 months or so, because the stuff keeps dropping out of the liquid. It's not fermenting any more, just clarifying, and this is why the FG continues to drop (so I've been told)

Naw, solids added or removed to the liquid isn't going to effect the gravity.

 

[Mencken]

Naw, solids added or removed to the liquid isn't going to effect the gravity.

Just to settle this in my mind...I absolutely agree a big rock dropped in water is not going to change the density reading of the water. But if the added material is fine enough, and in enough quantity, I can't see how it would not affect the reading.

Picture the cake that forms at the bottom of the fermenter. This is, for all intents and purposes, beer that has sediment in it. It just has a LOT of sediment in it, making it a very viscous substance. Picture if you scooped up a bunch of this stuff at the bottom, along with some beer, and popped your hydrometer in that. The amount of sediment particles in the mixture would absolutely affect the reading one would get with a hydrometer, no? Would one truly expect to get the same reading from a mix that is 90% cake, 10% beer as from a purely beer mix? The hydrometer would essentially sit on top of the sediment, depending on the thickness of it.

In the same vein, though obviously to a lesser degree, a lot of sediment floating in the beer would do the same, wouldn't it? The sediment particles are fine enough that, while not chemically mixing with the water and alcohol, are still partially soluble, and it just seems to me that that they would affect the reading.

Can someone explain to me how this is wrong?

 

[springer]

floaties in the beer will not effect the density of the beer itself. We are measuring density not quantity. If its not is solution there will be no change in density.With the hydro sitting on the trub is paramount to saying I can fill the test vial halfway and let the hydometer sit at the bottom and not float I have changed the density of the wort.