sirsloop
Well-Known Member
6 12oz beers a day is a lot... heck 3 beers a day for two people is a lot, IMHO. We're talking EVERY day so if you miss a day you gotta make it up! HAH!
Brewing over 200 gal. limit
- Thread starter Phunhog
- Start date
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Im up to roughly 50 gallons made so far this year.. I give a lot of beer away to friends, and host a brewing party about every other week where a bunch of friends drop by, and we drink while (Mostly I) brew another batch.
It goes quick. Went through more than 10 gallons during Superbowl alone.
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
I cant stand brewing with other people, unless they really know what theyre doing. For me, its a way to get away for the day, and escape work, chores and swmbo.
Really? Where do YOU live? I want to move there!
To continue on with this thread...has anybody ever been threatened or heard of someone threatened with a "cease and desist" order for trying to sell/barter homebrew. What are the penalties? Of course I wouldn't ever do this but I was curious what the fine/jailtime is.
I don't believe the issue is whether or not it is homemade (though there might be other department of health issues to contend with there), but just that you'd be selling alcohol without a license. There are lots of examples for people getting busted for that.
http://www.northjersey.com/news/pas...d_with_selling_alcohol_without_a_license.html
http://www.panhandleparade.com/inde...r_selling_alcohol_without_license/mbb7713680/
http://www.seacoastonline.com/articles/20090512-NEWS-90512049
Here's an entire blog about the issue:
http://theliquorlicenseadvisor.com/blog/
If I understand correctly, proper licensing and sales protocol protects bar and store owners from some amount of liability. If you are just selling beer to dudes you know and they decide to do something stupid, you may be significantly more exposed to lawsuits than you would be if you were a convenience store.
cwilliams108
Well-Known Member
Who misses a day?
This is the best post in this thread. I truly got a good LOL from this
@Phunhog - 5 pages in and you're still asking the same question just phrased differently. Apparently no one has heard of an honest homebrewer having their door kicked in by the feds or state governments for brewing over 200 gallons. As mentioned already, it's mainly to keep people from doing microbrewery's and pretending to just be homebrewing thereby skirting the law, and taxes.
Rev.
rico567
Well-Known Member
Hey now,
Well I finally have my quasi Brutus 10 up and running. It is so nice to be brewing 11 gal at a shotI remembered that there is a limit of 200 gallons a year of homebrew. I just wondered if anyone, anywhere has ever been popped for this? I am not talking about somebody trying to sell it, just somebody who brews a lot and gives a lot away to friends. Which I know is technically illegal. It just seems crazy to actually try and enforce this law.
As has been mentioned in this thread, it may be just a teeny bit crazy to talk about it. You don't need to read too many threads on HBT (or other forums) to run into people who range from those who imply that they're >200 gal, through those who basically state it as a fact, all the way to those who brag about it.
My philosophy: Don't poke the bear.
buy grain with cash and keep your mouth shut. i NEVER brew more than 175 gallons a year just to keep a safety margin
@ the Rev.....I guess that is what I am after...I am guessing that there are over 100K homebrewers. I can't believe that everyone is "playing by the rules" and not "doing microbrewery's and pretending to be homebrewing thereby skirting the law, and taxes"
In a way I think that is awesome that no one knows of any case where a homebrewer was fined/cited/whatever for selling homebrew.
Look...I am trying to start a fully licensed nanobrewery. I have to follow laws, keep excellent records, and pay excise taxes. In other words there is a lot to go through to "be in the game". All in all it is a good thing. It just seems like it would be so easy to work the system that I can't believe nobody has gotten popped for it.
In a way I think that is awesome that no one knows of any case where a homebrewer was fined/cited/whatever for selling homebrew.
Look...I am trying to start a fully licensed nanobrewery. I have to follow laws, keep excellent records, and pay excise taxes. In other words there is a lot to go through to "be in the game". All in all it is a good thing. It just seems like it would be so easy to work the system that I can't believe nobody has gotten popped for it.
Phunhog said:
You'd be incorrect there. You asked whether we knew of someone not selling their homebrew getting in trouble for brewing over 200 gallons. Fairly recently, there was a homebrewer in Alabama who got in trouble with the law for selling homebrew, and I'm sure there have been plenty of others. Word spreads quickly. Don't do it.
CoolHandLuke
Well-Known Member
Using google, I am unable to locate the instance referred above. Is there an article which details the enforcement?
I did not find any article for any Alabamian(s) selling homebrew or going over state or federal home beer production limit(s). Although, is it legal to homebrew in Alabama?
I did not find any article for any Alabamian(s) selling homebrew or going over state or federal home beer production limit(s). Although, is it legal to homebrew in Alabama?
ReverseApacheMaster
Well-Known Member
It is actually a federal excise tax issue as well.
I couldn't find anything either. Perhaps jbrookeiv is thinking of this guy who got arrested for homebrewing and possibly distilling in Alabama (where both are still illegal).
This is also a great resource for any rulings you want to see. These rulings are made by the agency that regulates this kind of stuff. It this is regulated by both state and federal and the links are to the federal rulings.
http://ttb.gov/beer/beer-rulings.shtml
http://ttb.gov/rulings/index.shtml
http://ttb.gov/beer/beer-rulings.shtml
http://ttb.gov/rulings/index.shtml
HopHead24
Well-Known Member
Ok I think this is ready for "Mythbusters"...We all agree it is technically illegal to sell homebrew. Yet none of us has been able to come up with any sort of evidence that anyone, anywhere has ever been arrested/cited/prosecuted for selling their homebrew. The case in Alabama involved a homebrewer who was also distilling..and in a dry county to boot. Maybe the government says it is "illegal" but really doesn't care because it isn't worth the resources to enforce the law. Are they going to spend the money to investigate and prosecute somebody selling homebrew kegs to neighbors? Again I am not advocating breaking the law but.....is it a law if nobody actively enforces it?
But, like I said before, there's no shortage of precedent, will, and policy for busting people who sell alcohol without a license. If you sell a couple of sixers to your buddies, it is unlikely anybody would know or care. But I'd bet cash dollars that trouble would crop up quick if a homebrewer tried to sell a financially meaningful quantity.
Who knows...perhaps all this proves is that nobody has been foolish enough to try.
mlyday
Well-Known Member
Well its not legal, but probably nobody would know or care, but when the cops show up because of the noide, and see 500 gallons of home brew, and some equipment they mistake for a still, you might have issues.
Depends on your location. I believe that is generally municipally regulated, and in many places is related to zoning laws.
ALLEGEDLY DISTILLING.
I saw the picture posted with the Cops around all his gear and i saw nothing that looked like a Still or Even Corn Whiskey. He had a really nice Conical Fermentor and a Wort chiller. That might look like Distillation gear to someone that does not know what they are looking at
here is the pic, its in this tread
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/alabama-homebrewer-arrested-194144/
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f14/alabama-homebrewer-arrested-194144/
two_hearted
Well-Known Member
What was the volume you pitched yeast into? You brewed 5.
I_B_Mongo
Well-Known Member
I can personally attest to the fact that IS ILLEGAL. I go busted in college for having a kegger. Looking back, maybe it wasn't such a great idea to pass out flyers, and the 300+ people in the back yard didn't help either.
Anyway, the cops sent an undercover guy to my party. He asked me "so what does the $5 get me?". I thought to myself, "Self, what kind of goober has never been to a kegger before?", but told him all the beer and jungle juice you want. He went to the kegs (we had 6!) took poured a sample of beer, apparently poured it into a container for evidence, came back, busted 3 freshman for minor in possession, then busted me.
Class C felony charge of selling alcohol without a liquor license and 3 misdemeanor charges of contributing to the delequancy of a minor. They dropped the misdemeanor charges, and I was able to plead down to class A misdemeanor charge of "failure to comply with licensing laws. Total ordeal cost me a few hours in the city jail, over $5000 in lawyer, fines, and court room costs, and all the beer and jungle juice.
doctorRobert
Well-Known Member
That's pretty lucky since you served to minors, and charged em for it.
You can't sell alcohol without a license, why are so many people interested in this anyway? This is a hobby. Are you trying to make $10 here and there or something?
If you want to go pro, go pro.
I_B_Mongo
Well-Known Member
It wasn't my homebrew. Just Natty. Not that it makes it any more legal, just saying. And yes, I got lucky they dropped the minor's charges. Still, it was just a college party in a college town. I guarantee there were at least 3 more parties that same night. But, I learned my lesson. From then on, when we had parties, the beer was free, and I checked ID's. My friends were good enough to throw a few buck under the door to my bedroom, but I never took any money again.
According to the AHA there are almost 1 MILLION homebrewers! I just can't believe that someone, somewhere didn't try to sell their homebrew and was subsequently fined/jailed. Either homebrewers are absolute law abiding citizens with no "bad apples", there is no money to be made selling homebrewed beer thus no one is doing it, or the authorities really don't care and/or don't have any resources to deal with it.
integrator
Well-Known Member
I just got done covering the walls in aluminum foil. Thanks for the advice. <puts on aluminum foil hat>.
CoolHandLuke
Well-Known Member
It seems there is absolutely no significant federal enforcement on the home brewing limit - similar to how the feds now enforce (or don't enforce) marijuana sales in CA. That said, I am surprised there doesn't seem to be any significant state enforcement outside of states which still keep their prohibition era laws intact. Interesting....
ShaggyDogBrewing
Member
The correct answer was "a cup" .... the beer is free... but cups are $5
kappclark
Well-Known Member
I actually read the zoning laws here in Windham. No distilling, and you are not allowed to operate a slaughterhouse.
Good to know (!)
I_B_Mongo
Well-Known Member
Thanks, but I realized that as I was being handcuffed. I asked the cop later on if it would have made a difference, but he said no. Apparently somebody else had tried that and they got the same charges.
Oh well...live and learn. The only thing that really chaps my ass about it is I tried to get it taken care of right away, never heard anything...ran into the arresting officer on night and said they weren't going to press charges...then almost 3 years later started putting in applications with different fire departments with no luck...finally a guy I knew at one of the departments told me [off record, of course] "we'd love to hire you, but you've got an outstanding warrant" Turns out the county got a new prosecuting attorney, and decided to bring it to court...but I never got a summons, so I never showed up = bench warrant.
Long story short, called an attorney, got it taken care of, dropped almost 5 large, and got a job with a better department.
ShaggyDogBrewing
Member
Glad to hear you got it taken care of but its pretty lame it cost that much, one would think that would fall under a "statute of limitations".
I'm gonna keep the myth of "cup charging" alive though for the sake of younger generations.
I'm gonna keep the myth of "cup charging" alive though for the sake of younger generations.
ArcaneXor
Well-Known Member
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I would never sell my homebrew. What's the point? Making a couple of bucks but risking really nasty, if unlikely, consequences? This community is all about enjoyment of the art of creating and sharing wonderful beverages, not about making a buck on the side, on my opinion. "Bending" or flat out breaking the rules is selfish and could possibly impose restrictions on our hobby - all it takes is a couple of high-profile cases where something bad happens. The public and media are still largely ignorant of our hobby and are quick to equate it with moonshining. Not the kind of press we need.
Appreciate that we have the right to homebrew and don't be greedy is my opinion.
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