Brewhouse Efficiency Problems

[jrfehon]

I recently switched to all grain and haven't had great brewhouse efficiency, three batches all around 65%. Here's what equipment I use:

8 gallon kettle with false bottom and spigot
8 gallon kettle for boil
5 gallon kettle for heating sparge water

I batch sparge and each of the three batches I mashed at 152 with 1.25 quarts of water per pound of grains (the last batch I used 1.5 gallons per pound for strike water). The first batch I mashed for 60 minutes, the second 75 and this last batch 90 minutes. Even with towels covering the mash kettle I lost about 5-7 degrees after the 90 minute mash. I then sparged twice with water at 170 degrees. I stirred like crazy for a few minutes before the mash and after each sparge. My boil water quantity was good and I ended up with the water volume I wanted post boil in the fermentation bucket. I've thought about doing a mash out but I've read that it's not necessary when batch sparging. I know people are going to write about the crush. I've gone to different stores and get the same results. I'm guessing that it's not the crush and something with my system. Any suggestions on how to improve my efficiency is greatly appreciated!

 

[eluterio]

how about draining the mash slowly? I havent done well with batch sparging beer smith gave me my temps and I was never able to hit them so I just fly sparge. But Ive noticed by draining my mash at a much slower rate 1 gallon per 10 mins ish its boosted my eff from 60 to 75.

 

[Jeremy_N]

What is your mash efficiency? Have you measured that preboil? I have about 80% mash efficiency but less than 70% brewhouse efficiency. This is due to excessive post boil wort for me because I have more in my kettle than goes to the fermentor. I don't worry about it because I am consistent. I have extra wort because I try to keep trub out of the fermentor so I don't lose a lot of volume when racking to the keg. So I'm curious if it is a mash efficiency problem you have or if your volumes are causing your brewhouse efficiency. I don't think you are in a terrible situation.

 

[mblanks2]

Any suggestions on how to improve my efficiency is greatly appreciated!

Fly Sparge.

 

[Pivovar_Koucky]

Check your crush (have all 3 batches been ground at the same location?), check your mash pH, check the temperature after you add the sparge water. Do you wait 5 min after adding the sparge water? Do you let every last drop drip out of the mash tun? Check your thermometer.

 

[brewkinger]

The speed at which you drain the mash tun only matters with fly sparging, or so I am told. If you think about it, you are draining the sugars out and then rinsing them off with each batch sparge. Speed really plays no role in this and the issue is more that you cannot rinse and drain sugars that are either not there in the first place OR were not converted and are still stuck in the grains.
Even though you do not want to hear it, the main reason for poor efficiency is the crush.
The next place I would look is the temperature. Is your thermometer reliable?
I personally have 3 cheaper thermos that I trust because I have calibrated them and they all read the same and they match the brewmometer on my kettle.
Other than that, depending on the type of setup u have, you may be losing some sugars in the mash tun dead space under a false bottom etc... So that info would be helpful.

Finally, you referred to brewhouse efficiency, but I think you mean mash efficiency.
Mash efficiency is what percentage of the "available sugars" in the grains that are converted, released, rinsed and drained from the grains. Losses here in involve the factors I mentioned.
Brewhouse efficiency can only b calculated after boiling and taking all losses to evaporation and trub loss as well as other places into account.

 

[cluckk]

I recently switched to all grain and haven't had great brewhouse efficiency, three batches all around 65%. Here's what equipment I use:

8 gallon kettle with false bottom and spigot
8 gallon kettle for boil
5 gallon kettle for heating sparge water

I batch sparge and each of the three batches I mashed at 152 with 1.25 quarts of water per pound of grains (the last batch I used 1.5 gallons per pound for strike water). The first batch I mashed for 60 minutes, the second 75 and this last batch 90 minutes. Even with towels covering the mash kettle I lost about 5-7 degrees after the 90 minute mash. I then sparged twice with water at 170 degrees. I stirred like crazy for a few minutes before the mash and after each sparge. My boil water quantity was good and I ended up with the water volume I wanted post boil in the fermentation bucket. I've thought about doing a mash out but I've read that it's not necessary when batch sparging. I know people are going to write about the crush. I've gone to different stores and get the same results. I'm guessing that it's not the crush and something with my system. Any suggestions on how to improve my efficiency is greatly appreciated!

Well I hate to be predictable, but even if you go to 100 stores, you will get the same results and it will still be the crush. You wrongly assume that different stores crush differently. The store crushes to a point that a brewer is unlikely to get a stuck mash, so they crush conservatively. Also, a lower mash efficiency simply means customers must use more grain so it is in their interest to crush larger. If you invest in a grinder and go finer than the stores do you will see a considerable jump in your efficiency. Your choice is crush finer, or buy more grain for each batch. Either spend the money on a grinder or spend it buying more grain.

I tried everything and managed to bring 62-65% up to around 68-70%. By crushing my own grain I am now at 85-90% mash efficiency.

 

[SavoryChef]

Well I hate to be predictable, but even if you go to 100 stores, you will get the same results and it will still be the crush. You wrongly assume that different stores crush differently. The store crushes to a point that a brewer is unlikely to get a stuck mash, so they crush conservatively. Also, a lower mash efficiency simply means customers must use more grain so it is in their interest to crush larger. If you invest in a grinder and go finer than the stores do you will see a considerable jump in your efficiency. Your choice is crush finer, or buy more grain for each batch. Either spend the money on a grinder or spend it buying more grain.

I tried everything and managed to bring 62-65% up to around 68-70%. By crushing my own grain I am now at 85-90% mash efficiency.

Most likely this. ^^^^^^^
I got 83% with a barley crusher at .036 then I bought a monster mill 3 and now get 93% with the same .036.
Crush and how much wort you leave in the tun determines your %

 

[heckler73]

how does one measure and calculate efficiency?

 

[acidrain]

65% brewhouse efficiency is not bad... mash efficiency means a lot more in terms of how well you are converting sugars. How much pre-boil wort do you collect vs. weight of grains?

I get 80% mash efficiency, but only 60% brewhouse because of all the trub, hop absorption, false bottom, pump, hose, etc. I accept that, and I'm happy to spend a few dollars more in grain to get really clean beer in the end.

 

[hilts]

I had problems with efficiency with my first few a.g. batches, and read up on crush. I found that some of the most experienced brewers around here are crushing twice. I was getting efficiency in the low sixties, started crushing twice, and got to the mid seventies for the last six batches.