Brewer's Edge Mash & Boil

Williams 728
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mhochman said:
Cool. Will be interesting to see the response.
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Mobius570 said:
I too can't wait to hear a response to this. Does a heating element need a delay like a fridge compressor does, so it doesn't burn out from turning on and off all the time? This would be the only reason I could think of as to why it would fluctuate so much.
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Not the answer we were hoping for but he got right back to me which was nice.

"The differential is set and there is no way to adjust it. Maybe try the 1600 watt setting next time, as that is all I use and I have not seen this range of temperatures."
 
scottibones said:
Not the answer we were hoping for but he got right back to me which was nice.

"The differential is set and there is no way to adjust it. Maybe try the 1600 watt setting next time, as that is all I use and I have not seen this range of temperatures."
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Well I guess the next brew will be switched on to 1600 Watts. I did the same as you and mashed with it on 1000 Watts.

Thanks for sharing that.
 
Weezy said:
No.

The 146 to 157 swing sound like hot spots. Anything with active temp control needs constant recirculation.
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I believe it is on their product blog that they recommend drawing off some wort at the valve and circulating it to the top a few times throughout the process. Not constant, but I would think this would help.
 
scottibones said:
Not the answer we were hoping for but he got right back to me which was nice.

"The differential is set and there is no way to adjust it. Maybe try the 1600 watt setting next time, as that is all I use and I have not seen this range of temperatures."
Click to expand...

Did you stir the mash at all or take independent readings with a reliable thermometer or did you just let it run and see what it would do?
 
So... how long before someone pops one of these open and wires up their own controller instead? I'm sure it'll happen sooner or later.
 
TANSTAAFB said:
Did you stir the mash at all or take independent readings with a reliable thermometer or did you just let it run and see what it would do?
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I let it go without stirring. I did check the temp with another thermometer that I've used for years. The temperature was accurate.
 
OK. I'm in. ordered tonight. $6.99 shipping plus two free stainless pints came to $306. Will update after first brew. I'm coming over from a dozen biab brews, and I thought that was too easy. I might have to get a hand grist mill just to feel like I did some of the work.
 
Ordered mine last night (Williams shipped today) along with the grain for Yooper's Oatmeal Stout, 2 free stainless pint glasses, and centennial hop rhizomes 'bout 3fiddy shipped. I plan to insulate, re-purpose my pump and some of the other gear.
 
I will be interested to see how you progress with this. Thank you for posting.
 
Cain said:
Do you have previous all grain experience? What made you decide on this product instead of others?
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I benefitted from starting my homebrew experience with a Brooklyn brew shop 1 gallon kit that was all grain. I scaled all my recipes to 1 gallon and kept buying refill grain from the local home brew store. I never got into extract brewing and grew from that 1 gallon kit to brewing 2.5 gallons. Bought a brew demon conical and an anvil 5.5 gallon kettle and a brew bag. That's when I started biab. I got really tired of cleaning and sanitizing 26 bottles at a time so I started kegging my brews in 2.5 gallon kegs. I upgraded to a Ss brewtech brew bucket mini with fts temp control also.

I do a recirculating full body mash currency when brewing with the bag and get great efficiencies. I hate using the stove top and bought an induction plate which I use to regulate mash temps and boil but I have trouble maintaining a rolling boil so after the mash I sometimes switch over to the stove top.

I have been looking at unibrau's electric system for a while and even the grainfather but with the equipment I have working so well for me, I just couldn't justify the price until this unit came out. I now have the ability to simplify the brew process even further with a unit that seems powerful and doesn't push the limits of my current setup. I can tell you that a large grain bill in 4.5 gallons of water in a 5.5 gallon pot is sketchy to say the least.

I am a Mercedes-Benz technician by day and am pretty handy so I think I can turn this into an amazing system. I'm going to change out the kettle valve to one with a dip tube, mount my pump to the valve and use a quick disconnect system to route to the top to a spray head for a recirculating mash. Not sure if I'm going to go through the lid or drill a hole in the side yet. I might try hack the controller if I'm not happy with it or replace it completely. This unit is the right price point that I can tear it apart and not feel bad about it. That's the end goal I guess.
 
Weezy said:
I don't think it needs that. I think it just needs an external pump and recirculation.
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I've been watching this thread closely from the beginning waiting for user responses. This is exactly how to handle this. I have the Grainfather and love it. This is a cheaper version with a few needs, a small recirc pump, a top plate (a simple mesh cut out from a SS splatter guard should do fine), and a chiller- I love the GF CFC and would advise building one, lots of relatively easy examples on HBT. So far only the location of the controller (and now lack of ability to adjust) are the biggest downsides. The former could be handled by placing the unit on an elevation of 1-2' while the latter may become moot with good recirc. Oh and I would NOT run the mash with the higher wattage. And I would do temp checks of the grain bed. That temp it measures is not in the grain bed, I would relax on the swing concerns with a good recirc setup- no long hoses, direct like the GF.
 
This is a great discussion and I look forward to seeing more and more ideas and feedback regarding this promising product.

For now, the consensus seems to be adding the pump to facilitate recirculating. While drilling a hole could work, I would think for this product, slipping the return hose under to hood should work pretty well, though there could be some heat loss.

I'm also wondering about whirpooling with this device. I guess a hole would need to be drilled toward the bottom? May as well then drill a hole near the top.

Not a question so much as something to discuss.
 
For the whirlpool I was thinking of testing out what they came up with in this thread, no drilling required. Would be nice to have a second lid that you could cut out a notch for the recirc hose, whirlpool arm.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=466274

0319141810a_zpsma3pzp5l.jpg
 
That looks great. Is there a way to slip it in once the mash basket has been removed, since you don't need the cover for the boil anyway? Assuming recirculation would be delivered to the top, how could you have the pump connect to both outflows for the different steps of the process?
 
Would be easy to just use stainless quick disconnects. Can switch between the outlets easily then.
 
fermentinginpa said:
For the whirlpool I was thinking of testing out what they came up with in this thread, no drilling required. Would be nice to have a second lid that you could cut out a notch for the recirc hose, whirlpool arm.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=466274

0319141810a_zpsma3pzp5l.jpg
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Normally, I'd think of putting two recirculation ports on the pot; one high for mash recirc and one low for whirlpool! but I don't know what clearance you have with that inner barrel. You MIGHT have to go with an arm like this.
 
Lots of great ideas here and as a GF owner I'd suggest to also insulate the boiler. I put pipe insulation, cut in half lengthwise around the boiler at bottom, middle and top. Then, put two wraps of reflectix on top. Works like a charm. The air space adds to the insulation properties. Holds mash temps well with 600w used during mash. No issues.
 
garrettbuckeye said:
Is the Grainfather double walled also? Not familiar with it as much. I just ordered the Mash & Boil tonight. I am already considering different ways to both insulate and recirculate.
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single walled, why we need the insulation.
 
garrettbuckeye said:
Is the Grainfather double walled also? Not familiar with it as much. I just ordered the Mash & Boil tonight. I am already considering different ways to both insulate and recirculate.
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Would be helpful to hear from users of M&B that set up a direct recirc like the GF has if the double wall is enough. The first example here of recirc is not comparable to GF or efficient. If outside boiler is hot to touch, insulate! I'm betting you'll want that, and an air space is easy and adds insulating properties that some users may wish to have.
 
Will definitely need to insulate this thing. Brewed on it for the first time on Sunday and was a little disappointed in the performance during mash. Here is my experience. I brewed a Rye Pale Ale indoors with a 12.25 lb grain bill.

The instructions said to heat it up to 160 and after the grains were added you would end up with a good mash temp of 150. 10 degrees sounded like a big drop to me but I followed the directions. It only dropped 4 or 5 degrees so I will adjust that next time.

Set the Mash and Boil to a 150 degree mash. Every 10 minutes I would take sort wort out and pour it back into the top. Temps were all over the place. Temps would drop then I would do my manual re circulation and they would go back up (expected for the most part) but was still steadily dropping. At the 28 minute mark it dropped all the way down to 144. It was only at this point that the heating element kicked back on to get it to 150. It warmed it back up but overshot it to 155. The second half of the mash did the same thing. Temps slowly dropped until about 10 minutes to spare and the heating element kicked on again.

The sparge went smoothly and I hit my numbers but wasn't happy with the temp fluctuations. I am going to wrap it in insulation before my next brew day and work on getting a pump so I can just constantly recirculate.
 
Maybe the more veteran all grainers can chime in on this: if a pump is doing a continuous recirculation, do you think the insulation would still be necessary?
 
btw, I was pretty happy with how the little printer stand I bought worked as a brew stand. Perfect height for me during the sparge and still enough room to easily transfer the wort into my fermentor. Ignore the extremely outdated kitchen appliances :)

mash%20and%20boil_zps1mxlujiy.jpg
 
mhochman said:
Maybe the more veteran all grainers can chime in on this: if a pump is doing a continuous recirculation, do you think the insulation would still be necessary?
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Yeah, I don't know, been brewing for years but don't have any experience with this type of brewing and never did a continuous recirculation.

My only other minor quibble is the lid is really really thin. Would have liked that to have been a bit more substantial.
 
Cain said:
I will be interested to see how you progress with this. Thank you for posting.
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My system should be here tomorrow, Wednesday at the latest. :ban:
I have hopes of shortening the brew day, bringing more consistency to my mash and end product and being able to brew in the garage in winter, without "death from beer-monoxide". Fist brew day soon.
 
mhochman said:
Maybe the more veteran all grainers can chime in on this: if a pump is doing a continuous recirculation, do you think the insulation would still be necessary?
Click to expand...
Yes. For the GF I did and it works well. For this I'd answer a few questions- is boiler hot to touch? If yes, then heat loss, so need to insulate. Then I'd ask where are you measuring temp? I'd ignore controller and focus on measuring grain bed (at dough in, possibly 10 min or so into mash). Then I'd ensure you recirc direct back up boiler and do not splash upon reentry (more heat loss) and cover the top.
As for the large temp swing that is indeed troubling. You may need to get creative and really babysit this (e.g. Set mash at 155 for a 150 mash and stop when at 152 or so). Or hack the controller and build with a new one??
 
Kampenken said:
As for the large temp swing that is indeed troubling. You may need to get creative and really babysit this (e.g. Set mash at 155 for a 150 mash and stop when at 152 or so). Or hack the controller and build with a new one??
Click to expand...



I have tried various combinations of button pressed and thus far the only sub menu I get to each time is to change the temperature from F to C. I have also searched for any similar timed heater controllers out of China and none that look like this has come up on the google machine. I will keep looking. I took the bottom off and haven't found anything obvious as to what model the controller is. I may have to disassemble it fully but will wait until after my first brew day before I go that far into my testing.
 
Island_Dan said:
I have tried various combinations of button pressed and thus far the only sub menu I get to each time is to change the temperature from F to C. I have also searched for any similar timed heater controllers out of China and none that look like this has come up on the google machine. I will keep looking. I took the bottom off and haven't found anything obvious as to what model the controller is. I may have to disassemble it fully but will wait until after my first brew day before I go that far into my testing.
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Appreciate the effort with that. +/- 5 seems to be waaaaay too big a swing to try to get a consistent and dialed in mash.
 
No you don't *need* the insulation if you're recirculating and heating, but having it helps even out the temp inside the thing.

Any idea where the temp sensor is on this thing? Is that little knub on the bottom in the pictures the temp sensor?

Edit: Studying the pictures on their site, you're pretty limited on effective recirculation due to that inner grain barrel. I think I'd go with a silicone hose through a notch hole cut in the lid and run right down to the grain bed. You could use some commercial mash recirculate manifold product
DSC_9551_800x.jpg


to distribute wort or you can make a cpvc or copper manifold. I've used something real simple. Silicone tube with slots cut into it so it squirts out sideways into the grain bed.

 
Weezy said:
No you don't *need* the insulation if you're recirculating and heating, but having it helps even out the temp inside the thing.

Any idea where the temp sensor is on this thing? Is that little knub on the bottom in the pictures the temp sensor?
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Yes, I am pretty sure the temp probe is the tiny little nub that sticks up on the bottom. I suppose it makes sense that the liquid beneath the mash would fluctuate way more than the mash itself

probe_zpsgcohbdjp.png
 

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