Brewcraft Dead Guy extract kit OG

[istuntmanmike]

So the recipe for the Brewcraft Dead Guy ale extract kit are as follows:

3lbs Pilsen light DME
2lbs Amber DME
1lb "Brewer's Crystals" - 56% Maltose Corn Sugar

1lb Munich malt
.5lb Crystal 40L

1oz Perle 60min
.5oz Czech Saaz 15min
.5oz Czech Saaz 0min

Pacman yeast

Their estimated OG is 1.063. I'm struggling to understand how only 5lbs of extract would hit 63, on brewersfriend it comes out to only 1.050, 4.76% ABV. Dead Guy is 6.5%. In a 5.5 gallon batch, how is it possible to get their OG with that recipe?

I'm just going to add some more DME, along with some Tett hops, to get it closer to Dead Guy's ABV and IBU. Adding 2lbs of the light DME and 2oz of Tett brings it to 6.22%, 42 IBU. I have a starter of Pacman going right now :rockin:

 

[FuzzeWuzze]

Well first the kit probably makes 5 gallons not 5.5. Second the Brewers Crystals it sounds like are just straight sugar(dextrose/maltose) mixture that people sell for ABV boosting.

I can see that possibly getting you up near 1.060 or higher.

 

[istuntmanmike]

Even with 5 gal it's still only 1.055. I know what the crystals are.

 

[istuntmanmike]

In a 5.5 gallon batch, how is it possible to get their OG with that recipe?

Why is it so difficult to get an answer to such a basic question?

 

[Yooper]

Why is it so difficult to get an answer to such a basic question?

Seriously?

You want to make a 5.5 gallon batch out of a 5 gallon ingredient kit, and don't know why you don't have enough extract?

According to Beersmith (and my own quick calculation as well), that recipe should give you 1.061, more or less, for a 5 gallon batch.

Munich malt is a base malt and the crystal malt will also give you some gravity points. Your calculator is wrong.

Adding .5 pounds of water will lower it, besides.

42 IBUs seems very high for a Dead Guy clone. I'd go lower.

Here's my recipe: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f66/dead-guy-clone-extract-ag-see-note-25902/

 

[istuntmanmike]

No. I want to make a 5.5 gal batch. At 5 gal the recipe doesn't add up for me, so obviously a 5.5 gal batch would need even more.

How do you get 61 with only 5lbs of DME and 1lb crystals? I get 53 in BeerSmith, 54 on Brewersfriend (which is what I've been using), and that's with 5gal. Even your recipe uses 8lbs of DME to get 66, so I don't understand how 5lbs will make it to 61, even with the crystals.

 

[Yooper]

No. I want to make a 5.5 gal batch. At 5 gal the recipe doesn't add up for me, so obviously a 5.5 gal batch would need even more.

How do you get 61 with only 5lbs of DME and 1lb crystals? I get 53 in BeerSmith, 54 on Brewersfriend (which is what I've been using), and that's with 5gal. Even your recipe uses 8lbs of DME to get 66, so I don't understand how 5lbs will make it to 61, even with the crystals.

The grains give some points, as well. Change your setting to "partial mash" since Munich malt is a base malt.

 

[istuntmanmike]

I only steeped the grains as normal, ~150* for 30min. Does that make a difference?

 

[istuntmanmike]

Also, it seems I can't take an accurate OG reading at all. Should I instead be calculating the OG from the recipe and disregarding what the hydrometer says? I brewed last night, used only the 3.8lb light and 2lb amber DME, 5.8lb total, ended up just under 5gal and the hydrometer read 62 last night and 58 this morning. I had a Belgian IPA that read 114 when it should have been 84. I was going to add the crystals and the rest of the DME into some more wort and top off with that (forgot how much DME I had vs what I needed until it was too late and the brew was half-done :cross.

I know the hydrometer is accurate at least in water at 1.000, and I mix the bejeezus out of the wort before measuring (full boil, no top-off), but I still can't get an accurate OG reading.

So should I just assume the OG is what the recipe says it should be? In calculating, I use 42ppg for DME, 40 for the crystals and 46 for cane sugar, right? (http://www.howtobrew.com/section2/chapter12-4-1.html)

So if I make it my way:
5lb DME light = 5x42/5=42
2lb DME amber = 2x42/5=16.8
1lb crystals = 1x40/5=8
42+16.8+8= 66.8


The recipe makes for:
3lb DME light= 3x42/5=25.2
2lb DME amber= 2x42/5=16.8
1lb crystals = 1x40/5=8
25.2+16.8+8= 50

Where am I going wrong here to be 11 points short of what you got (61), Yooper? I've read almost everywhere that steeping grains contribute only but a few points, if that. If I get 67 and have 5gal, I should end up ~6.5%, which is where I want to be.

 

[Yooper]

Where am I going wrong here to be 11 points short of what you got (61), Yooper? I've read almost everywhere that steeping grains contribute only but a few points, if that. If I get 67 and have 5gal, I should end up ~6.5%, which is where I want to be.

You do get gravity points from the specialty grains, and especially from the Munich malt (which you seem to be leaving out of the calculation).

 

[CeeTee]

in4results

Let me know how this turns out as I am an avid fan of Dead Guy and Rogue brews

 

[istuntmanmike]

You do get gravity points from the specialty grains, and especially from the Munich malt (which you seem to be leaving out of the calculation).

So how do I calculate the points? Because I'd like to see the math on how 1.5lbs of steeping grains contributes 11 points, considering pretty much every single other source of info indicates there are only a few points to be gained. I'm not trying to argue with you just to be difficult, just trying to get some evidence and knowledge rather than simply taking advice at face value. I'm a skeptic, especially when numbers are involved

Also, from your recipe using 8lbs of DME in 5 gal gives an estimated OG of 67.2. Your actual OG was 66. You had a whole pound more grains, so again I'm struggling to understand how the calculations add up considering your actual OG was a point low, yet you used even more grains than I have. I know the ppg for DME can vary for different manufacturers and even different batches from the same manufacturer, but it would have to be 31ppg as opposed to 42 in order for the 2.5lb of grains you used to contribute 7.3 points/lb (11pts/1.5lb=7.3pts/lb) and still hit that gravity reading.

8lbs DME x 42ppg / 5gal = 67.2 OG

11pts expected from grains / 1.5lbs grain = 7.3pts/lb expected from grains

7.3pts/lb x 2.5lbs = 18.25pts OG expected from grains

67.2-18.25=48.95 OG without grains

8 x X /5 = 48.95
X=30.63ppg



Also, for what it's worth, when I calculated the gravity of the gallon I just boiled up to top off the fermenter (to hit both gravity and volume targets), it calculated out to 113. Both hydrometers I have read ~114. So far the calculations seem to be much more reliable than any advice I've so far received. I'm thinking I should just answer my own question and stick with the calculations rather than worrying about what the hydrometer says, it must be the hops and break material causing them to read much higher OG than what they should be (still haven't gotten any other explanations as to why they read way too high OG but FG reads fine - attenuation has always been within range and the beers have tasted great).

 

[Yooper]

Arguing about this is tiresome, so this is the last post I can make on this.

1 pound of Munich malt should give you 7 points or so, in a 5 gallon batch. (.005) .5 pound of crystal 40L should give you and additional 2+ points.

That's .009+ added onto your calculations.

Two pounds of amber DME adds .017.

Three pounds of light DME adds .026.

brewer's crystals should add .009.

That is roughly 1.061. That's a guestimate, and it could be more or less but it should be right in the ballpark.

Grains give gravity points to the wort. They just do. They count when you are figuring them in. Leaving them out when you calculate just means that you are estimating low. They still will provide color and flavor and sugars, whether you choose to "count" them or not. They are in there, and won't disappear.

 

[DurtyChemist]

Why don't you make the beer and figure it out? What did brewers do before programs? Math. What if there wasn't an equation the could find or knew? They probably made beer and took notes.

 

[SuperX]

I have that recipe in the fermenter and added 1/2 pound of amber extract since I had a 3# bag and used 1/2# for a starter. I hit 1.070 with that mod. I started with the steeped grain wort plus the amber extract then added the last 3# and brewers crystals in the last 15 minutes. (60 minute boil) Even though I shot for 5.5 gallons I was at 5 even after the boil and am looking at 4.5 usable now that the trub and yeast have settled out.

My first batch followed the recipe and instructions exactly and I ended up around 1.052 or so. I had to top off with ice cubes and tap water to get to the right volume and temp, but the beer was still good I'm just starting to use Beersmith which I hope helps with getting the right starting volumes.