brew volume for pliny all grain

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zactastic

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Im not confident in measuring the correct starter water volume for the Mash and for Sparge so can you please give me some advice? Also, when do you add the corn sugar, during the last part of the mash or boil?


I did the mash with a BIAB technique, and I also sparged that. I know some BIAB skip that step and just do one full mash volume. Perhaps that's a bad technique but its what im use to on the smaller batches ive done previously.


Mainly, how much water overall is what im trying to get down. The basics im learning are (mashing, boil times, temps, sanitation) next on my list is how to use original and final gravity as I haven’t don't that on any of my batches. This is my 4th batch. The first three batches were done with the 1 gallon kits that don't require gravity. Yes, im very new.


Info: Im doing the All Grain Pliny the Elder clone 2.5 gallon from MoreBeer (not the full 5gallon batch as I like doing smaller batches that fits my needs)

So yes, I divided everything by two in the recipe list that I was provided


What I ended up using for water vol:

Mash vol: 2.1 gallons

Sparged Vol: around 3 gallons ( probably more like 2.5 or less used as the next step came to…. 4.25 gallons for my total PRE BOIL.

So, Total pre boil: 4.25 gallons

POST boil: 3.4 gallons (that's around 0.6 gallons evaporation loss per hour, seems low as ive heard and read some lose 1 to 1.5 gallons per hour on the boil) It was about 60 degrees in my garage.


After cooling I had around 3.25 gallons and I placed about 2.9 gallons in the 3 gallon glass fermentor, thinking that I would probably bottle around 2.5 gallons after evaporation in fermentation process and trub loss.


From the directions on morebeer’s general instructions for All-Grains, they say to use the weight of the grains ___ x 1.1 qts divided by 4 = Starting mash vol. in gallons.

This came to 2.1 gallons for my 7.69lbs of starting grain which includes the 0.5lbs of corn sugar….(does that factor into the MASH weight?)


I could be wrong but I added the corn sugar in at the last 10 minutes of the mash and not the boil. The directions say to add the corn sugar to the last 10 mins of boil but when I read further on a different source, it said the last 10 minutes of the mash. Am I wrong? The all grain directions didn't mention that step but the extract version says the last 10mins of mash when you bring the temp up to boil. I digress…


For sparge: instructions say ½ gallon per pound which is more than they say will be needed. This is 7.69 lbs divided by 2 = 3.8 gallons. As mentioned above, I used less than 3 gallons of 165 degree sparge water. mainly because my kettle is a 5 gallon and i didnt want to risk overflow adding any more.


Summary: what water volume should I be using for this pliny all grain recipe? And im assuming that all recipes changes depending on grains as each has roughly their own absorption rates.


Side note: I did sparge using a BIAB process. bag of Mash was taken out of the kettle and placed in a bucket (presanitized of course) where I poured over the sparge water that was around 165 degrees. This was then combined and the bag was somewhat squeezed to produce that 4.25 pre boil vol mentioned above.
 
Well you have a 2.5 gallon batch, lets assume a 1 gallon loss during boil and 7.7 lbs of grain. Let's also assume that you lose about .125 gal/lb of water due to absorption.

That comes to 2.5 gal + 1 gal + (7.7 lb * .125 gal/lb) = ~4.5 gal.

If you want to sparge, just divide that amount of water between the mash and sparge. You'll end up with 3.5 gal of water for the boil. Add the corn sugar in the last 10 min of the boil.

You'll also have to adjust the boil loss based on your equipment.
 
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POST boil: 3.4 gallons (that's around 0.6 gallons evaporation loss per hour, seems low as ive heard and read some lose 1 to 1.5 gallons per hour on the boil) It was about 60 degrees in my garage.

I lose 0.8 gal/hr in my kettle. Depends on the size of the kettle. I tested it a couple of times just boiling water and it seems pretty consistent and I have been hitting my target volume pretty well.
 
I could be wrong but I added the corn sugar in at the last 10 minutes of the mash and not the boil. The directions say to add the corn sugar to the last 10 mins of boil but when I read further on a different source, it said the last 10 minutes of the mash. Am I wrong? The all grain directions didn't mention that step but the extract version says the last 10mins of mash when you bring the temp up to boil. I digress…

When a recipe includes sugar other than for use during bottling/packaging it is a kettle (boil kettle) addition. This applies to any type of sugar including corn, table, brown, turbandino, belgian candi, molasses etc. Hop utilization will be impacted by when the sugar is added so in your hop forward recipe the directions wanted you to add the sugar at the end of the boil so the wort would be as low gravity as possible during the boil.

This came to 2.1 gallons for my 7.69lbs of starting grain which includes the 0.5lbs of corn sugar….(does that factor into the MASH weight?)

No ... the sugar addition is not mashed. It goes directly into the kettle.


I will leave the water calculations for somebody with BIAB experience. I do think you want to learn to do your own calculations using brewing software either a free online calculator or something like Beersmith. If you rely on the kit maker's "general AG instructions" you will end up doing something different every time you buy a kit from a different supplier and will never dial in your own process which is what really matters most.
 
Well you have a 2.5 gallon batch, lets assume a 1 gallon loss during boil and 7.7 lbs of grain. Let's also assume that you lose about .125 gal/lb of water due to absorption.

That comes to 2.5 gal + 1 gal + (7.7 lb * .125 gal/lb) = ~4.5 gal.

If you want to sparge, just divide that amount of water between the mash and sparge. You'll end up with 3.5 gal of water for the boil. Add the corn sugar in the last 10 min of the boil.
You'll also have to adjust the boil loss based on your equipment.

hey thanks so much. is this your approach to all grain recipes?
 
No ... the sugar addition is not mashed. It goes directly into the kettle.
QUOTE]

Thanks for the details. I should have asked this sooner. I think ill make another 2.5 gallons doing it the right way of adding the corn sugar to the boil, no the mash. :)

I also was wondering, when the recipe brews a "5 gallon batch" does that mean I should have 5 gallons to place in the fermentor or does that mean 5 gallons to bottle at end of fermentation process?
does that account for the fermentation evaporation loss and trub volume? My thought was that if i have 5 gallons at end of cooling from the boil, that would net me less than 5 gallons to bottle do to fermentation + trub loss.

I'm sure there's more i need to read up on so please send me in the right direction. I'm still researching and trying to figure out the volume of things. cheers
 

@zactastic This is key question. I've not brewed kits in awhile but believe there is some variability. It is clearly cheapest for the kit manufacturer to size the kit based on assumption that you dump entire boil kettle into the fermentor and top up to exactly the stated volume. This makes it easy to sell a kit that is built to provide 5 gallons of a promissed OG wort.

But I keg and I really care about getting 5 gallons of finished beer into my keg. So when I design my own recipes I provide for both kettle and fermentor losses. For a 15 gallon batch I want to end up with 17-17.5 gallons in my boil kettle and transfer 16-16.26 gallons to my fermentor. This leaves most of my hops in the boil kettle and provides for plenty of room for trub and yeast in the fermentor. Hard to say from online or box kit description if they have been that generous with overfill to assure the kit delivers 15 full gallons to the kegs.
 
The .125 gal/lb of grain absorption is more if you're using a mash tun. For BIAB with squeeze it tends to be in the .06-.09 range. I find I get about .08 with a decent but not super aggressive squeeze. Priceless brewing's calculator is probably the best one around for BIAB, though you still have to input your correct numbers like boil off, grain loss, etc.

https://pricelessbrewing.github.io/BiabCalc/#Advanced
 
Thanks guys. I tried the beersmith2 calculations but its a little over my head. ill try running the numbers again. there are just so many variables to input in the the beersmith system. some of those things im to select im not sure on.
 
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