Brew in a Basket...anybody try one of these?

[RedlegEd]

I really dig the idea of electric brewing, maybe I will convert that direction some day and ditch the propane.

If/when you switch, I think you'll really like it. My only "regret" (if you can call it that,) was not going to full 240V. Unfortunately, the cost of extending that into my garage would have been prohibitive, so I used the 120V/20A circuit I already have there. The downsides are longer to heat and not a very rigorous boil, but it's quiet, clean, compact, and very easy to use. I just added a digital thermometer to my control box to monitor the mash. I hope to use it soon (brew day today called off due to Mother's day and didn't want to offend/irritate SWMBO.) I got the idea from SteelManCM in this thread.

 

[jr72023]

FYI, Colorado Brewing Systems recently went from a full mesh basket to a solid side basket with a mesh bottom so sparging would be more efficient, forcing the water to travel move purely downward through the mash. They do supply many small breweries so there might be something to it.

 

[RedlegEd]

FYI, Colorado Brewing Systems recently went from a full mesh basket to a solid side basket with a mesh bottom so sparging would be more efficient, forcing the water to travel move purely downward through the mash. They do supply many small breweries so there might be something to it.

Now that you mention it, that's what the Grainfather does as well. I figured before I spend too much more money on my rig, I'll do a test to see how much difference it makes. I went to Lowe's and got a 5 gal food-grade bucket. Cut out the bottom and cut off the top to make a sleeve that would fit in my basket. Next brew, I'll put the grain inside the sleeve and recirculate through the grain. I'll see if it makes a difference. If it does, then I might consider getting a SS sleeve made that fits better...if not, well, it's only $5 for the bucket.

 

[SoCalHomeBrew]

I'm extremely interested in your results as well as applaud your low cost solution to testing the theory.

 

[RedlegEd]

I'm extremely interested in your results as well as applaud your low cost solution to testing the theory.

Thanks, I'll let you know. I was considering heavy duty AL foil, but decided against it due to the metallic taste it may impart to the beer unless it's been seasoned. I started with an aluminum turkey fryer pot, so I learned the hard way about prepping aluminum before brewing with it.

 

[BrewSS]

Looks cool, but for $80, I'd rather stick with bags and save up for a mash tun.

 

[The_Bishop]

Then, quite possibly, you're in the wrong thread. I have all the equipment to do three vessel, two vessel and one vessel brewing. I've used them all.

In the end I stuck with single vessel brewing. For my purposes it works very well, is vastly faster, and requires a hell of a lot less cleanup than any other system I've used yet. The bags work well. I used them for a good long while and still have one or two for my 'portable' BIAB rig. The basket setup which has a higher price premium to be sure, offers easier cleanup with no recirculation issues and it drains very well. There's no chance of scorching. It's also a lifetime piece of equipment.

RedlegEd: I'm interested in the outcome of your experiment. I've been debating changing out my open sided basket for a closed side design like Colorado Brewing's setup.

 

[RedlegEd]

RedlegEd: I'm interested in the outcome of your experiment. I've been debating changing out my open sided basket for a closed side design like Colorado Brewing's setup.

I'll be happy to post the results as soon as I can get another brew day in. Since I recently did BM's Centennial Blonde in my open basket (and have all my data,) I figured that would be a good candidate to re-brew with a sleeve for comparison. If it turns out to perform much better, methinks I'll just have a thin gauge SS sleeve made to fit snugly in my basket. I suspect the cost of just the sleeve would be much less than buying a whole new solid-side basket and accomplish pretty much the same thing. Then again, if I only gain a few points in my efficiencies, it might not be a cost effective mod. No matter what, I still love my basket and prefer it hands-down over my bag.

 

[hafmpty]

I'll be happy to post the results as soon as I can get another brew day in...Then again, if I only gain a few points in my efficiencies, it might not be a cost effective mod.

I'd be interested to hear/see how the clarity is vs a mesh basket. I'm currently using a mesh basket and would like a bit clearer wort in the kettle. I dump all the trub currently and don't worry about it, but if clearer wort is possible, at least out of mashing into boiling, I'd be willing to look into having my basket modified or getting a sleeve made.

Looking forward to your info. Take pictures if possible. [emoji3]

 

[The_Bishop]

I would think that if you're careful about lifting the solid sided basket up out of the wort, it should be just like draining a mash tun.

 

[brianccarr]

I've been considering the solid sided basket myself. I want to keep my system portable for brewing on the deck and taking to friends to brew. I have a Blichmann G2 20 gallon kettle and I'm considering gas firing the kettle up to mash temp and then dropping in the basket. To maintain temps throughout the mash I am looking at recirculating through the Blichmann RIMS Rocket 120v or a RIMS Tube from Brew Hardware's with a 120v element. I want to keep the heating element out of the kettle. My concern is will I get enough flow rate through the basket not to scotch the wort. Seeing how I only need I nominal amount of heat to maintain mash temp I feel like the 120v element will be fine. The grain crush will need to be a little courser maybe. Would love to hear some thought and opinions if this sounds feasible.

 

[hafmpty]

The grain crush will need to be a little courser maybe.

This is pretty much a must. I do direct-fired RIMS using the Blichmann Tower of Power Module. I crush at .050 and have the ball valve wide open during the entire mash. There are different gap measurements thrown around for a recirculating BIAB system, but the consensus is widen the gap if you're going to be recirculating.

Don't rule out a direct fired approach for you system. If you can recirculate fast enough you won't run the risk of scorching. The secret is using large ID tubing (1/2"+) and getting a good flow rate. Before the Tower of Power I made a controller using an Auber PID & RTD probe, Hot Surface Ignitor to light the propane, relay timer (used to trip the solenoid valve a couple seconds after the HSI turned on to give it time to beat up), and a cheap solenoid valve off eBay (valves4projects). Total invested was around $150-$200 for the controller with switches and lights and buzzers oh my. Could have gone a bit cheaper but I wanted it to look sweet too.

 

[brianccarr]

I hadn't even considered direct firing the mash. I would actually prefer to do that as I would eliminate having to clean another piece of equipment. As I stands now, I will have a kettle, a solid sided basket if that's what I buy ( should be easier to clean), pump, hoses, and plate chiller to clean. I only want to make the best decision the first time. I will buy a Blichmann controller. I just don't want to buy the gas version only to find out I should have bought the electric version. I know this thread is about the basket so I still have that decision to make as well.

 

[beermaestro]

Has anyone brewed with this solid sided basket yet? Is it better than the regular full mesh basket? I am going to buying either one or the other and would like to know if one is better than the other or if they are really about the same.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

I have and its prone to stuck sparges if you mill too fine but if you don't it works great, I have a 15 gallon home made basket from an actual concord pot so its heavy then cut the bottom out and added a blichmann false bottom, use it for 3 years before I upgraded to a 3 pot set up, I still have it just in case I ever go back to brew in a basket, I dont get rid of things that work lol

 

[BeeRRunBrewery]

To "piggy-back" on beermaestro's comment is what mesh/ micron screen are people using for their solid sided baskets.

 

[RedlegEd]

If you recall in my earlier post (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7576456&postcount=43), I was going to try an experiment using a 5 gal bucket as a sleeve in by brew basket. Well, I just kicked my keg of Kölsch, so it's time to brew another batch of BM Centennial Blonde. Since I have my brew log data from the last batch, it will be a great opportunity to see what difference, if any, a sleeve makes to the brew basket. I'll post the results tomorrow.

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

out of curiosity, and I know people like to save a buck, but, I see some really nice brew rigs on here, why not just buy a proper mash tun? I mean, a ported kettle with tc fittings and a thermowell? Maybe save a little and just get the right equipment? I brew on some seriously ghetto equipment and make decent beer, I just don't get the fuss I guess.

 

[TexasWine]

why not just buy a proper mash tun?

What is a proper mash tun? For me, a proper mash tun turns out to be my boil kettle as well.

 

[The_Bishop]

out of curiosity, and I know people like to save a buck, but, I see some really nice brew rigs on here, why not just buy a proper mash tun? I mean, a ported kettle with tc fittings and a thermowell? Maybe save a little and just get the right equipment? I brew on some seriously ghetto equipment and make decent beer, I just don't get the fuss I guess.

My equipment is ghetto?

 

[Yeastieboy]

Like many, my mash tun happens to be my boil kettle as well, which also includes a stainless basket that I line with a fine mesh bag during brewing. Works like a champ. Highly recommended.

My equipment is ghetto?

Nice setup The_Bishop. Hey, what's your method of chilling? My setup is very similar to yours. However, I am still disconnecting several camlocks to add a plate chiller after boil.

 

[The_Bishop]

I have a ZChiller counterflow chiller mounted at the bottom of the stand. You can see the camlock fitting on the right side of the pic.

I do have to move hoses when it's time to chill. There's a short jumper hose that goes from the pump outlet to the chiller inlet, then the hose that runs to the lid gets moved to the chiller outlet. There's locline mounted inside the lid, so I shape it to create a whirlpool with the outlet just under the surface of the wort. With the appropriate valves turned off and a small bucket to catch the few bits that drip out, it's a pretty clean process.

The ZChiller is crazy effective. Single pass, wide open flow it drops temps 74f with my cold groundwater. I usually recirculate into the kettle until I see the chiller outlet hit pitching temps (Usually in the 3-4 minute range) then run right into the fermenter.

I usually bag my hops, as a holdover from when I had a plate chiller. Next brew I'm going to forgo that practice (with pellet hops, whole leaf will still be bagged) and see what the difference is. I'm not worried about anything getting caught in the chiller anymore. Besides, it's a breeze to backflush and clean.

 

[KenEnnis]

A great solution to a non-problem. Unless you are doing a fly sparge which should take 45 to 60 minutes, you don't need a mash out. Without heating for a mash out, no scorching.

Your perceived benefit from having the 3" legs is actually a detriment as you exclude the water that is below the screen from interacting with the grain. You end up with a situation much like "topping off" where you add water to the wort, thus diluting it. If you are recirculating, you avoid this but then you will have problems with the screen clogging unless you have grain that is milled more coarsely and then you negate the advantage of BIAB's ability to use finely milled grain. You'll end up like the dog chasing its tail.

While some have touted the longevity of the screened basket, the payback of the funds invested is too many years. You'd have been much farther ahead to replace the bag periodically and spend the extra money on ingredients. You may not live long enough to have a payback on the screened basket.

Ok this brings up an interesting question.
When I BIAB I suspend the bag in the water on a string so that it doesn't touch the bottom of my kettle. Is this incorrect?

 

[KenEnnis]

I have a ZChiller counterflow chiller mounted at the bottom of the stand. You can see the camlock fitting on the right side of the pic.

I do have to move hoses when it's time to chill. There's a short jumper hose that goes from the pump outlet to the chiller inlet, then the hose that runs to the lid gets moved to the chiller outlet. There's locline mounted inside the lid, so I shape it to create a whirlpool with the outlet just under the surface of the wort. With the appropriate valves turned off and a small bucket to catch the few bits that drip out, it's a pretty clean process.

The ZChiller is crazy effective. Single pass, wide open flow it drops temps 74f with my cold groundwater. I usually recirculate into the kettle until I see the chiller outlet hit pitching temps (Usually in the 3-4 minute range) then run right into the fermenter.

I usually bag my hops, as a holdover from when I had a plate chiller. Next brew I'm going to forgo that practice (with pellet hops, whole leaf will still be bagged) and see what the difference is. I'm not worried about anything getting caught in the chiller anymore. Besides, it's a breeze to backflush and clean.

in the picture shown above what do you circulate thru the coil of copper tubing? (please remember I am still relatively new at this). I know it is used as a wort chiller.

 

[The_Bishop]

@KenEnnis - RM-MN has his own opinion regarding the baskets, mine is different. If your setup involves recirculating your mash (as mine does) a solid basket is a huge help. It holds it's shape and flows better than the bags. That being said, if you're doing a single infusion mash a bag works well. I can multi-step mash with a mash out and have no issues. I recirculate constantly during the mash, so all the liquid is in constant motion.

The ZChiller is a counterflow chiller. It's a tube within a tube. In the outer jacket, you have cooling water flowing in the opposite way from the wort that flows in the inner tube.
This diagram illustrates it:

 

[jimyson]

Another happy user of arbor baskets. I'll take this over a bag any day. Super easy to clean too.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1468084548.353028.jpg

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1468084572.120864.jpg

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1468084618.581093.jpg

 

[RedlegEd]

If you recall in my earlier post (https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showpost.php?p=7576456&postcount=43), I was going to try an experiment using a 5 gal bucket as a sleeve in by brew basket. Well, I just kicked my keg of Kölsch, so it's time to brew another batch of BM Centennial Blonde. Since I have my brew log data from the last batch, it will be a great opportunity to see what difference, if any, a sleeve makes to the brew basket. I'll post the results tomorrow.

Okay, brew day is done, 22 quarts of BM Centennial Blonde (BMCB) are in the ferment chamber at 62°. So how did the sleeve work? In a word...terrible. The sleeve functioned exactly as planned, in that it kept the grain in a column with only the bottom screen as an outlet. So what's the problem? It didn't allow the wort to flow through during recirculation, even after stirring several times (e.g. every 10 minutes) during a 60 minute sacch rest. The pumped wort basically just stayed in the top of the sleeve, and overflowed down the sides. So, you ask, maybe I ground my grain too fine? Nope, I use a Schmidling MaltMill without adjustable rollers, so the grind is set to ~.045" (pretty course, no?) AND my basket's screen weave is fairly open at 600 micron. Below is a pic of the basket being brought up. Notice how high the wort sits in the sleeve? After 5-10 minutes, I couldn't get it to drain until I pulled the sleeve up about 1.5" to allow it to drain through the sides. For those of you who are "facts & data" types, here are the numbers from my first brew of BMCB and this batch (using Brewer's Friend.).

Efficiency with open basket:
Conversion: 95.4%
Pre-Boil: 89% 33.5 ppg
Ending Kettle: 83% 31.3 ppg
Brew House: 83% 31.3 ppg

Efficiency with sleeve:
Conversion: 82.3%
Pre-Boil: 78% 29.2 ppg
Ending Kettle: 80% 30 ppg
Brew House: 76% 28.7 ppg

There were some slight recipe differences in the type of grain, but nothing that would cause this. So, based on my experiment and observations, I will stick with my open sided basket (the sleeve now sits in the trash bin.)

BTW, @RachmaelBenApplebaum, while my rig is nowhere as nice as The_Bishop's or jimyson's, it serves my purpose well. If I had the $ to invest in a "...proper mash tun? I mean, a ported kettle with tc fittings and a thermowell?", I'd just buy a Grainfather and be done with it. As others have already pointed out, this is a BIAB forum, the last "B" can either be a bag or basket (or combination.) I was just testing the concept of full flow vs vertical flow of wort through the grain bed vis-a-vis impact on efficiency.

 

[The_Bishop]

Ah, it sucks about your difficulties. On the other hand, now we have data about open sides vs. closed basket.

Thanks for the experiment, anyway!

 

[RedlegEd]

Ah, it sucks about your difficulties. On the other hand, now we have data about open sides vs. closed basket.
Thanks for the experiment, anyway!

You're more than welcome! It was worth finding out what gives, and I'm glad it only cost me a $5 bucket from Lowe's rather than going "all in" and buying a solid sided basket or a SS sleeve. I'm guessing/hoping the beer will still come out well (it's possibly the most forgiving recipe out there,) so it's not a total bust. There were quite a few differences in the efficiencies, weren't there?

 

[RachmaelBenApplebaum]

My equipment is ghetto?

No, mine is. I guess what I meant is if you have tc fittings anywhere in your household, you probably don't mind spending money on nice equipment. As for a proper mash tun, something with a false bottom so you can mash? I guess the BIABers get offended by the idea.

 

[The_Bishop]

I can mash just fine. Instead of using a dedicated mash tun with a false bottom (Which I have done in the past) I have a 400 micron stainless mesh basket that I mash in. In fact, I have pinpoint temperature control over my mash temps and I recirculate the whole time, which leads to greater conversion efficiency and makes step mashing as easy as turning a dial. I can do things with a mash that I could never do with a cooler/false bottom setup and my brewhouse efficiency is normally in the 80% range. My 'mash tun' has zero dead space loss and I never have a stuck sparge.

Tell me again, how is a 'conventional' mash tun better?

 

[Yeastieboy]

I can mash just fine. Instead of using a dedicated mash tun with a false bottom (Which I have done in the past) I have a 400 micron stainless mesh basket that I mash in. In fact, I have pinpoint temperature control over my mash temps and I recirculate the whole time, which leads to greater conversion efficiency and makes step mashing as easy as turning a dial. I can do things with a mash that I could never do with a cooler/false bottom setup and my brewhouse efficiency is normally in the 80% range. My 'mash tun' has zero dead space loss and I never have a stuck sparge.

Tell me again, how is a 'conventional' mash tun better?

Amen! And thanks for the detailed reply regarding your chilling setup!

 

[hafmpty]

Unhelpful and unproductive comment. Self-edited.

 

[Epos7]

Lots of good information in this thread. From what has been reported, it sounds like brewing in a basket with solid sides is more finicky than in a full mesh basket.

Colorado Brewing Systems use a hard sided basket in their systems, as seen

They have a 400 micron mesh in the bottom of it.

RedlegEd, I'm curious if when you tried a sleeve in your basket, were you recirculating the wort into the top of the basket itself, or into the bottom? In the video above, they are using a fitting that seems like it would reach most, if not all of the way to the bottom of the basket. I wonder if this is important to keep the grain flowing near the bottom of the basket and not clog the mesh screen.

 

[RedlegEd]

I pumped onto the top of the sleeve. I think even had I pumped to the bottom, it wouldn't flow through. Remember, my screen is 600 micron (larger openings than 400 micron,) so I can't see how it would have made much difference if the bottom of the screen was plugged. The wort would have backed up and overflowed the sides. I do agree that may have increased the exposure of the mash to recirculating wort, but not to the point we're it would even come close to the efficiencies I achieved using an open basket.

 

[stonebrewer]

I think the difference in your results may be due to CBS doing a whirlpool to get the mash moving vice pouring wort on top the mash. They achieve high 80's in efficiency with this setup. Seems to make sense and is what I wanted to do with my system. Gotta get some electrical issues resolved first, but then I plan on using my Spin Cycle from Bobby M to do that in a basket without hard sides...not sure if that will work or not, and it will require me to modify the way the Spin Cycle attaches to my kettle, but heck it is worth the experiment. If/when I get around to it I will post some results and pics. Cheers!

 

[Epos7]

I think you're right stonebrewer. It appears that by creating a whirlpool within the basket, CBO is able to keep the grains suspended rather than settling to the bottom and clogging the screen. It seems like the solid sided basket is critical for creating said whirlpool.

I'll be interested to hear how your experiment works out. What is the Spin Cycle you are referencing?

 

[stonebrewer]

I'll be interested to hear how your experiment works out. What is the Spin Cycle you are referencing?

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/spincycle.htm

It's a whirlpool fitting...see URL to Bobby M's (HBT sponsor) product. Right now I have it bolted to the side of my pot as a whirlpool. Will likely have to extend it away from the kettle side to get it into the basket...probably with a short piece of stainless pipe, but gotta figure that out still.

 

[Epos7]

That's pretty cool. Looks very similar to the tri clover fitting CBO is using, which they appear to be getting great results with.

 

[The_Bishop]

I'm using an open sided basket, with loc-line from a fitting on the lid. I orient the loc-line to create a whirlpool in the basket, and while it's not spinning madly it is still moving in a circular direction.

Is it possible that it's crush size related? How fine is your crush? *edit* Doh. Just re-read the post. Yeah, that's not too fine at all.