Brew belt and 'quality' yeast

[chris24300]

So I picked up a belt for $26 at LHBS from owner's recommendation. From what I was reading in joy of homebrewing and on net the 'quality' lager yeasts ferment well at lower temps but what I was seeing in the airlock wasn't what I should have been. The yeasts they have say to keep brew around 70-75 and next to my boiler is high 60s at best, if it's even on.

needless to say I strapped the brew belt on my honey lager (brewing my first batch properly this time) and DAMN this thing was running wild. working really well and still cruising along. ATM I have a pale ale in my keg and it is a little watered down sort of taste but that's clearly because fermenting temps were low, but is still very drinkable.. can't wait to start drinking really good tasting beer!!!

had to share my excitement

 

[kurtism]

so what temp are you brewing your lager at?

 

[chris24300]

the belt doesn't have a dial or anything but says it'll keep the brew around 75-80 for up to 8 days. after 7 i plan on checking gravity again and then will rack to keg and start lagering and i'll work my way down to 36 degrees.

 

[broadbill]

the belt doesn't have a dial or anything but says it'll keep the brew around 75-80 for up to 8 days. after 7 i plan on checking gravity again and then will rack to keg and start lagering and i'll work my way down to 36 degrees.

For lager yeast that is way to hot. you need to be in the 50-55 range for the active fermentation then lager at 36...

Edit to Add: 75-80 is to hot for ale yeast too. Basically, your LHBS appears not to know what he is talking about.

 

[Revvy]

You're fermenting your lagers in the 80's I don't ferment my ALES that high unless I'm making a funky Belgians.

You ferment your lagers in the 50's, and then lager in the 30's.

A brew belt is great if you have a temp controller hooked up to it, and you are ghetto lagering outdoors or in the garage in the dead of winter and you don't want it to freeze, so you set it to come on when the temp gets close to freezing and go off when the beer is at the optimal lagering temp.

 

[Revvy]

I see what the problem is, you think a bubbling airlock means something...It doesn't, it's simply a vent a valve to release excess co2, to keep from blowing the lid on the fermenter, it's not a fermentation gauge. How fast, or slow it bubbles or if it bubbles at all is irrelevant. It doesn't really correlate to how a fermentation is going or not.

So by cranking the heat up for something as superfluous as an airlock bubbling, you probably produced a crap load of nasty off flavors.

 

[samc]

I guess we are going to be killing off your excitement on this one. Why not post up all your info, like recipe and yeast, etc. and then maybe we can give you some good tips for the next beer. I think you are suffering from too many sources of info and not having a master plan to follow on brewing a proper batch of beer.

 

[chris24300]

I see, but the yeast itself says that the wort temp should be 75 while fermenting, the past batches haven't come out well... then again I don't think I aerated the others as well as this one.

edit: theres no way this belt is putting the temp up to 80s, just not hot enough but i'll take a temp reading on Fri along with the gravity.

 

[BrewGardenCA]

Oh sorry. That's not a good scene. The brew-belt comes in handy when you have to ferment in a Canadian basement in the winter, but it sounds like this might be a brew chalked-up to a learning experience. I'll probably be drinkable, just maybe not what you expected.

 

[Yooper]

I see, but the yeast itself says that the wort temp should be 75 while fermenting, the past batches haven't come out well... then again I don't think I aerated the others as well as this one.

edit: theres no way this belt is putting the temp up to 80s, just not hot enough but i'll take a temp reading on Fri along with the gravity.

Which strain are you using? The White Labs yeast labels say something like 'keep at 70-75 until signs of fermentation are present'. But then, right on their website they have different instructions and tell you to keep certain strains at 60-68 degrees! It's very confusing. but if you tell us the brand of yeast (and the strain, if you know), we can actually point you to the correct information.

You almost NEVER want a beer to get above about 70 degrees while fermenting. If it's a lager, you especially don't want to do that!

 

[broadbill]

I see, but the yeast itself says that the wort temp should be 75 while fermenting, .

Where does it say this exactly?

the past batches haven't come out well... then again I don't think I aerated the others as well as this one..

What is it about them that makes you think they aren't coming out? I'd be surprised if amount of aeration was a/the variable here.

edit: theres no way this belt is putting the temp up to 80s, just not hot enough but i'll take a temp reading on Fri along with the gravity.

It might be up in the 80s with the brew belt along with active fermentation.

 

[chris24300]

Ah sweet, conflicting information... it is a white labs lager yeast, I don't know the exact strain but I should have killed the brew belt after fermentation started?

the recipe;
6 oz carapils malt
6 oz wheat malt
4 oz torrified wheat
4.5 lbs super light malt extract
3 lbs honey
2 oz cascade hops in boil
1/2 oz cascade hops in finish
lager yeast
irish moss

I steeped and boiled, left over night to cool then heated up in the morning so it wasn't a thick paste then aerated & pitched yeast.

hehe well silly me on the last time i brewed this I got a little caught up and dumped the priming sugar straight in and ended up with OJ brew... the next brew (pale ale) I corrected some of the mistakes and it tastes good but I thought the culprit could be the fermenting temps were too low. I didn't aerate the wort when I pitched I don't think (not in notes). my other problem is I usually start brewing later in the day and while

edit: the yeast does say till fermentation begins, i thought it was till end of fermentation..

 

[Yooper]

Their instructions suck on the vial. The reason they tell you to start it at 75 degrees is sort of a lie- they say "pitchable" on the package. And the truth is that it's nowhere near enough yeast for a lager. So they tell you to start it warm for a few hours to compensate for the severe underpitching rate.

Here's the info from their website on a lager strain (all very similar instructions):

WLP800 Pilsner Lager Yeast
Classic pilsner strain from the premier pilsner producer in the Czech Republic. Somewhat dry with a malty finish, this yeast is best suited for European pilsner production.
Attenuation: 72-77%
Flocculation: Medium to High
Optimum Fermentation Temperature: 50-55°F
(10-13°C)
Alcohol Tolerance: Medium

and this:
While a starter is not always necessary, White Labs recommends making a starter if the Original Gravity is over 1.060, if the yeast is past its "Best Before" date, if you are pitching lager yeast at temperatures below 65F, or if a faster start is desired.
and:
Make sure you choose the proper yeast for the style of beer you are making and ferment the wort within the recommended temperature ranges.

(Those above were copied right from the White Labs website).

The thing to do is always make a starter with liquid yeast, and always ferment at the yeast strain's optimum temperature range (which IS accurate on their website). If you look at their website more closely, they will tell you that there isn't enough yeast to get to "professional pitching rates" which should be a goal even for homebrewers in most cases.

I love White Labs yeast, but I think that their instructions on the label stink.

And, it's too late now, but I wouldn't even let an ale get above 70 degrees, let alone a lager. An ale should be at 65-70 degrees (beer temperature, not room temperature) and lagers at 48-53 degrees.

 

[smokeyfisherman]

Did you go to the store in somerville? Near porter square (I think)?... That place is awful. I bought a belt there too, and stopped using it. they run wayyy too hot. I felt like i was being spoken down to In there. Beer wine hobby in woburn is a much better store, better people, better merchandise, better information.

 

[chris24300]

I go to beer wine hobby, used to goto barleycorns in natick but couldn't stand the "service" if you even want to call it that.

Thanks yooper, I did think it was funny that every type of yeast vial says the same thing. OK just read up a little on starters, will .5L starter work for a 5gal batch? so I buy my ingredients in 'bulk' so I have plenty for other brews or same one and I have plenty of DME. I would mix 2oz DME with 400ml water and basically 'brew' it as usual 1 to 3 days before brew day? is the need for a starter because the yeast can become overwhelmed with 5gal of wort?

Please give insight so I correct all these learning mistakes on my next brew:
Vanilla Oak Bourbon Stout; I've been soaking the oak chips for two weeks now (in bourbon), can't explain how excited I am for this brew I've been waiting to improve my 'skills' before attempting. when steeping do you put grains & bring to ~155 then kill heat? I will use a starter, when should i start the starter if I plan on brewing Sat.? then brew like normal, take wort at whatever temp the WL website says and pitch starter to primary? continue as normal?

 

[Yooper]

is the need for a starter because the yeast can become overwhelmed with 5gal of wort?

Not "overwhelmed", but there is barely enough yeast in a package to ferment 5 gallons. Because of shipping, age of the yeast, and so on, it loses viability. So you should either make a starter to increase the cell counts, or buy and use two packages of yeast in any beer with an OG higher than about 1.045 or so.

Mrmalty.com has a "yeast pitching calculator" that helps you figure out the ideal amount of yeast to pitch. He also has great articles on yeast on that site, and I learned alot from that site. (It's Jamil Zainasheff's site, and he wrote a book with Chris White [from White Labs Yeast] about "Yeast")

 

[chris24300]

ok thanks for explaining i'll check it out.

 

[troub]

Well, I have no idea what it'll taste like. But it's certainly *possible* to ferment a lager at ale temperatures -- just say you made a "steam beer." Now, the BrewBelt (I have one, and only use it sparingly for Belgians in the winter) gets pretty hot even for ale temperature ranges, so I have no idea what kind of off-flavors that sort of temperature issue will give you. But you made beer and it's certainly worth trying it, letting it age if necessary, before thinking about dumping it or getting too upset.

If your other beers "didn't turn out well" I'd think back to whether you kept those too warm somehow as well. I try to shoot for mid-60s for the wort temperature. I measure this primarily with stick-on "fermometers" ( Fermometer : Northern Brewer ), which have always seemed fairly accurate from my observations and double-checking. In the summer, I put my fermenter inside a bigger bucket or cooler and rotate in a frozen water bottle in the morning and evening, if necessary. In the winter my house is between 62 and 68 ambient, which is generally fine for ale yeast.

 

[Oddball]

I see, but the yeast itself says that the wort temp should be 75 while fermenting, the past batches haven't come out well... then again I don't think I aerated the others as well as this one.

edit: theres no way this belt is putting the temp up to 80s, just not hot enough but i'll take a temp reading on Fri along with the gravity.

More than likely it said to pitch at 70-75 not ferment....

 

[chris24300]

i think they didn't turn out well because I didn't use a starter as Yooper pointed out, "there is barely enough yeast in a package to ferment 5 gallons". I'm still drinking it and think every batch is greatly improved. I've only used the brewbelt once

Yea it said to pitch at that not to ferment.

 

[flabyboy]

Not sure what yeast you are using, but I would try to keep your temps down with that stout. Cool your wort to 65 degrees or so. Pitch the yeast and stick it in a room in the low 60s. There are several sits including Wyeast and Northern Brewer that have instructions on making a starter.

 

[flabyboy]

i think they didn't turn out well because I didn't use a starter as Yooper pointed out, "there is barely enough yeast in a package to ferment 5 gallons". I'm still drinking it and think every batch is greatly improved. I've only used the brewbelt once

Yea it said to pitch at that not to ferment.

There is an even better chance they didn't turn out because of the high fermentation temps

 

[chris24300]

There is an even better chance they didn't turn out because of the high fermentation temps

This was the first time using the brew belt, the others were in my living room where temps are 63-65

 

[midfielder5]

I am doing my first lager.. my white labs vial (WL 838, Southern German) gives total garbage instructions. I was blown away!!
I glanced at it when making my starter wort last night.
Good luck!

p.s. The chapter in the print book How to Brew by John Palmer is a good lager primer (at least it was for me; actually that whole book rocks).

 

[3PegBrew]

would the belt be good for a belgian Saison? Or should that brew wait til the summer when I can ferment it in the garage?

 

[flabyboy]

would the belt be good for a belgian Saison? Or should that brew wait til the summer when I can ferment it in the garage?

Belt would work for that. Although I think it's best practice (with certain belgian beers) to pitch cold and then let the fermentation temps ramp up as it goes. I did this with a cynic ale clone and it got up to 85. Turned out fantastic.

 

[3PegBrew]

So pitch the yeast around 65ish...let it sit for a day then put the belt on for the Saison?

 

[flabyboy]

So pitch the yeast around 65ish...let it sit for a day then put the belt on for the Saison?

What yeast strain are you using?

 

[BrewMU]

Which strain are you using? The White Labs yeast labels say something like 'keep at 70-75 until signs of fermentation are present'. But then, right on their website they have different instructions and tell you to keep certain strains at 60-68 degrees! It's very confusing. but if you tell us the brand of yeast (and the strain, if you know), we can actually point you to the correct information.

You almost NEVER want a beer to get above about 70 degrees while fermenting. If it's a lager, you especially don't want to do that!

I have the same shot of Al MacInnis hanging in my room - Lidstrom's okay I guess.

 

[3PegBrew]

The Wyeast Belgian Saison yeast (I'm not using it now, I'm planning ahead)

 

[flabyboy]

Looks like it has an upper limit of 95 degrees, which is crazy hot. I say pitch at 70-75 degrees let it go for a day and see how hot it gets, then put the belt on. I don't think you will have to worry about it getting too hot