Braumeister step mash suggestions?

[sentfromspain]

I was wondering if anyone had any tips for the step mash for the Braumeister? I'm going to be working with a 200 liter machine and it's gonna be my first. The introductory guide puts down that the mash program should be:

TEMP: 52 - 63 - 73 - 78
TIME: 10 - 35 - 35 - 10


I've tried some brews made by other breweries that used these steps and felt that the beers lacked body. It could be for any number of reasons, of course, but I felt that a missing mash step at 68 could be a probable cause. I was thinking along the lines of mashing at:

TEMP: 52 - 63 - 68 - 72 - 78
TIME: 10 - 35 - 30 - 15 - 10


Since I'd be brewing American pale ales, amber ales, and IPAs, I figured this kind of step mash would give a good amount of body. But I wanted to know what you think.

 

[dinnerstick]

my opinion is that for pale, amber, ipa, etc ales step mashing isn't necessary. anyways i don't think that adding a third sacc rest is going to increase body, rather the opposite is likely, but i have never done it. i assume the 73 rest in the original program is an alpha rest? so you would essentially have 2 alpha rests if you add 68?
my strategy (on braumesiter 20L) is to dough in around protein rest temp, more because it's easier to mix (fewer dough balls) than because i feel i need to do a protein rest. i usually do one anyways, 10 minutes at 54 or so, it can't hurt and should free up amino acids for the yeast. and i always do one if for example using high wheat or unmalted grain percentage. then i ramp up to a single sacc. temp, usually between 64 (high gravity ipa) to 68 (maltier english ales), and a mash out at ~78 for 10 minutes. this works well for me, i am very satisfied with the body of my ales. other people seem to be, they drink them anyways, but maybe they just like free beer... good luck!

 

[sentfromspain]

@dinnerstick what kind of efficiency are you getting?

I've always done single infusion with kettles. But since the technical guide recommends step mashes, and I'm going to be working with malt I've never tested out before, it makes me second guess myself.

I've been looking at a lot of five step mashes, and there are a lot of them that have rests at 68 and 72...

 

[goodgodilovebeer]

I usually do a simple mash [20mins @ 50C, 60mins @ 65C, and 15 mins @ 77] for the ales that I brew and find it works just fine for a good body that isn't too heavy. I like ales to be on the drier, more quaffable side, so I tend to use WY1272 which gets down to 1.008-1.010, but contributes a richer character to the beer compared to WY1056. Which yeast are you using? In my opinion, yeast selection has almost as much impact as the mash itself.

 

[sentfromspain]

@goodgodilovebeer I almost always use safale us-05 these days. I've made a lot of great IPAs with it, and I like a beer that has a noticeable body with a dry finish.

I may just end up trying out a 3, 4, and 5 mash step to see if there are any noticeable differences between them. Though it'd be interesting to see if anybody has experimented.

 

[dinnerstick]

hi i get mash efficiency around 80% and total efficiency around 70-75 % depending on amount of malt, how much sparging, etc. i'm curious about the rationale behind those two sacc steps, if anyone knows... but like goodgodilovebeer i spend more time on yeast selection than fussing around too much with the mash
now more importantly i'll be in sevilla in october, possibly cordoba for a day or two, is this machine in use at a brewpub or personal use?? what is recommended for good beer in andalucia?

 

[sentfromspain]

@dinnerstick I've been looking around for step mash info and I got some specs off of the Aussie home brewer forum:

http://aussiehomebrewer.com/topic/62204-stepped-mashing-schedules-by-style/

They may be bogus but then again, I don't think these guys go around making stuff up.

I'm gonna be working at a brewpub called Califa in Córdoba. Come and check it out! Beers to drink in Spain are from Sagra in Toledo for the moment. At the pub there's a lot to be done to make everything work out, but hopefully by October I'll have something special.

 

[dinnerstick]

cool. good luck with the pub and with the step mashes. i'll stop by for sure if i'm there.
one weird thing on that link is they list limit dextrinase activity as a protein rest!

 

[goodgodilovebeer]

Sentfromspain, have you guys figured out the chilling issue yet? You were saying on the other thread that you were considering a "no chill". I'd be careful of that idea, especially since you'll be offering this to the public. DMS would be my biggest concern. Also, have you checked out probrewer.com?

 

[sentfromspain]

I haven't really got an answer for that question yet no. Probrewer was my next stop.

I've been doing the no chill method for the last year or so and haven't had a single issue. Most of the brewers I have talked to havent had any DMS issues either. In any case, all of my boils are 90 minutes so even when I use pilsner malts it should cease to be a problem. True, the boil sizes are different, but really is there any reason why DMS should develop?

 

[goodgodilovebeer]

If you've been doing it without issues...nothing to worry about. I guess I'm a little paranoid about leaving wort at high temperatures for an extended time after the boil. I didn't mean to imply anything.

 

[sentfromspain]

Hehe, I know the feeling. No chill really does work, but I'll probably still check with probrewer to see if volume is a factor.

 

[sentfromspain]

Okay, back to the OT. After looking around and talking to some brewers, we have two contenders:

Mash suggestion A:

TEMP: 55 / 65 / 72 / 77
TIME: 5 / 40 / 25 / 10


Mash suggestion B:

TEMP: 50 / 62 / 68 / 72 / 74
TIME: 5 / 10 / 45 / 20 / 20

The mash suggestion B is closer to what I had originally proposed in that it favors the formation of unfermentable sugars to get a bigger body. Anybody favor one or the other?

 

[goodgodilovebeer]

Hard to say without a recipe and at least a style. What's the anticipated ABV, FG, IBU's of your recipe? As I'm sure you're aware, all of these factors are very important to the final product. Are you going for a "chewy" APA or one that people will be able to drink a few of before feeling like they just ate a whole loaf of bread? I'd go with the first one you have listed (55>65>72>77) depending on the malt bill.

 

[sentfromspain]

Yeah you're right.

78% pilsner, 10% carapils, 6% carahell, 6% vienna. 22 IBU, 4.8% alcohol, OG 1.046ish, FG 1.010ish. The goal is an APA with a good amount of body and a dry finish. More body than any pilsner - so it will stick out, but yeah no overkill.

 

[goodgodilovebeer]

I've never used more than 3-4% Carapils in a recipe myself. Is this a new recipe or have you brewed it before? I'm curious because I've never heard of anyone using this much.

 

[sentfromspain]

I use a lot of carapils yeah

 

[sentfromspain]

I used to use 3 to 4% before and it added pleasant amount of body, but I wanted the taste to stand out so I started doubling the amounts in my recipes. With the new mash temps and the higher wort quantity, I'll see what the 10% does to the taste, but I imagine the beers will be fairly similar.