Bourbon style Ice Beer at 30-40% ABV

[dlester]

This sounds like a great idea. I will have to give it a try soon. Is there any specific temperature that I need to freeze the liquid in question? Also how long is a good amount of time to let it sit upside down while it thaws?

I've been thinking about this: I wouldn't be concerned about temperature. Just make sure it is below freezing, or 28F. I would freeze until you get slush. If you freeze it hard, let it thaw until slush. Put it in a strainer for 30+ minutes, and you'll see the remaining ice turn lighter. I think this is the most accurate way of extracting the alcohol since there is a huge surface area.

If you try to extract from a solid block of ice, you run the risk of not extracting as efficiently since you have a limited surface area, forcing the liquids to travel through the ice block to a surface. And, extracting from a block of ice takes over an hour before the ice shows signs of extraction (light color). I'll have to experiment with this idea.

Good luck, I think you'll find this fun and in some cases, very tasty.

 

[insanim8er]

I watched videos on youtube... one a guy put the liquid in a plastic bottle, froze it solid, turned it over and let it drip out until the ice was white.

With the low freezing point of the alcohol, I feel like the slushy method would take forever... as soon as you start to strain it, it'll melt before all the ice is separated.

 

[pdxal]

Whoa, lots of misinformation after I posted the link to the chart on temperature vs. alcohol content possible.
Volume remaining after concentration does not determine alcohol content. You can't freeze concentrate a liquid/beer down to 50% alcohol without super low temperatures. Read up on how difficult it was for Brew Dog to make their super high alcohol beers, for example. 40% alcohol vodka won't even freeze in a conventional freezer to be able to concentrate out the water further, so how could you freeze concentrate your beer beyond that?:rockin:

 

[dlester]

I've been freeze distilling for awhile. I got the idea after reading about how the pioneers would make Apple Jack. They would let barrels of apple cider sit out in the winter.. every morning they would go out with a spoon and scoop off the ice that had formed on top. What was eventually left was Apple Jack.

When ever I make apple wine, I usually take about 2 gallons of it, freeze it and make Apple Jack. Just put it in a water jug, freeze it, and turn it upside down over a pitcher.

Good stuff..

The term "freeze distilling" is an oxymoron. Freeze is seriously cold and distilling requires fire. How do you freeze distill? This is not a real term. It only exists in the brewing community, and quite frankly, is what's confusing people about the legality of fractional freezing. The word distill throws everyone off and freaks out the reader. Either way, I know what you mean, and yes, I've read that too. It's a pretty cool story. You should try this if you live in a cold state.

Good luck with your Apple Jack, and if you wouldn't mind, respond with what you think the alcohol ABV might be and what it tastes like would be great.

Cheers

 

[dlester]

I watched videos on youtube... one a guy put the liquid in a plastic bottle, froze it solid, turned it over and let it drip out until the ice was white.

With the low freezing point of the alcohol, I feel like the slushy method would take forever... as soon as you start to strain it, it'll melt before all the ice is separated.

I've tried it as a slush and as a block of ice. The alcohol appeared stronger, and the frozen slush didn't melt as fast as you would think. In fact, it separated in 30 minutes and appeared to be a full 40% ABV. I still think that extracting the solution and alcohol during a strong slush is the best method, but I'm too new at this to be an expert.

Either way, try it the way you think best and report back.

 

[dlester]

Whoa, lots of misinformation after I posted the link to the chart on temperature vs. alcohol content possible.
Volume remaining after concentration does not determine alcohol content. You can't freeze concentrate a liquid/beer down to 50% alcohol without super low temperatures. Read up on how difficult it was for Brew Dog to make their super high alcohol beers, for example. 40% alcohol vodka won't even freeze in a conventional freezer to be able to concentrate out the water further, so how could you freeze concentrate your beer beyond that?:rockin:

I agree Chri5 that trying to freeze an alcohol at that percentage would require a a much lower temp. However, I think the initial extraction doesn't require that low of a temp.

 

[fearwig]

I agree Chri5 that trying to freeze an alcohol at that percentage would require a a much lower temp. However, I think the initial extraction doesn't require that low of a temp.

I think the point is that whatever runs off the ice is limited to the max ABV for that temperature. The volumetric measurement described above is misleading because it assumes 0% alcohol in the remaining ice, which is past impossible.

THEN you have to think about sugars, which further lower freezing points, further lowering ABV potential. I bet you'll peak out around 30% if you do it perfectly. Which is plenty.

 

[LBussy]

I'm a fairly experienced reader of ATF regulations - being a pyrotechnics person, but I am not a lawyer. I have spent a good deal of time across the table from ATF Investigators as well as with my own attorneys to make sure I stay a free man. I read 94-3 as well as 27 CFR 25.11 and here's what I take away from it:

Removing a "small quantity" of water (stated as no more than 0.5%) is "ice beer" and legal. Concentration of beer is what you are talking about and is only legal if you reconstitute it again. "Production" is not a commercial term, and is the only stipulation in the regulations (i,e, "you may produce ...").

So, removal of water from beer is not the same as removing alcohol from beer and thus not distillation - cool. You guys can play that card all you like. I can however tell you with a fair degree of certainty how something like this works: "Jackbooted thugs" (a quote from a person I know who received such a visit) will come into your home, separate you from your family, probably throw you on the ground and probably handcuff you in front of your kids. You will at the very least make the local papers/internet news, and miss time from work. Said "thugs" will remove pretty much everything which could have been involved in the production of the substance in question, including bags of sugar from your wife's pantry, your refrigerator/freezer, every un-sealed/taxed bottle of non-commercial alcoholic beverage, unmarked kegs (which say "Property of Budweiser ... remember that story?) and march it all out of your house in front of your neighbors.

You will probably at this point not exercise your right to STFU and incriminate yourself for something. If this happens the rest of this "it happened to a friend of mine" story doesn't even apply to you. You will be convicted, lose your job and a lot of nice things. Oh and if they happen to see a drill press or grinder and an AR-15 while looking for other things, you will also be charged with possession of tools and equipment to make an automatic weapon. Yes, seriously.

If you did STFU, hopefully you can afford a smart lawyer, experienced in all this, because a public defender will advise you to plead it out. That lawyer will be expensive and doesn't even want to hear about "I can sue them for false arrest and get your money that way". Nope, he wants cash. He makes his money whether you were too cute by far or not. You also likely can't sell your house or car for that cash because one of those was posted as collateral against your bail bond.

Months will drag by, you will become a raging ******* because of the stress, your wife will leave, your job (if you kept it this long) will eventually grow tired of being nice about it and find some other reason to fire you. Now you are broke, indicted, separated from your family, have no place to call home and no car to drive there.

Fast forward two years (this was a quick process this time) where said friend was acquitted. Would you believe his wife, kids, car, house, money, and job were not handed back to him? The nerve! But he was right all along, surely that means something. At this point you might have the stomach to try to file papers to get back all your things which I am sure have been stored safely in some federal locker somewhere. You still want that fridge back with all the food in it, right?

So, you were right, I was wrong. You can make your crappy "hard beer". That was definitely worth it.

 

[PintoBean]

As someone who just completed the TTB process and read most of the rules and regulations, yes, you can freeze distill your beer as much as you want....as long as you reconstitute it with water back to within 0.5% of it's original volume. So, if you freeze a gallon of beer (128 fl oz ) down to 1/2 gallon (64 fl oz) you must add 60.8 fl oz of water back to the concentrate to stay legal.

 

[fearwig]

Good idea to have some water with your booze anyway, I say. Reconstitute it in your stomach!

Really though, unless you are selling this or sharing it on a massive scale, you are not going to have feds at your door.

You can go to jail for hosting a poker game, too--but you don't, unless you're doing it for profit, or otherwise attracting bad attention, because it would be ludicrous. If you call an ATF tipline (or whatever they have) and report your neighbor for putting milk jugs full of cider in a snow drift, you'll be laughed off the line.

On the other hand, if your house looks like the Branch Davidian complex, maybe you should stay straight and narrow.

 

[LBussy]

Good idea to have some water with your booze anyway, I say. Reconstitute it in your stomach!

Really though, unless you are selling this or sharing it on a massive scale, you are not going to have feds at your door.

You can go to jail for hosting a poker game, too--but you don't, unless you're doing it for profit, because it would be ludicrous. If you call an ATF tipline (or whatever they have) and report your neighbor for putting milk jugs full of cider in a snow drift, you'll be laughed off the line.

True .. but "living on the edge" to let's say have a fling with a gorgeous blond is one thing ... living on the edge to have concentrated crap is another. If jacking fermented spirits was a good product we'd still be doing it. It lacks the ability to refine the alcohol content (remove higher and lower esters) that fractional distillation does.

What I generally hear is someone's girlfriend gets pissed and tells the cops that her ex is (insert illegal thing here) and they are the ones that call in the feds. You would be surprised what a bored local cop can do to your life.

Folks can do as they wish, take whatever risk they feel is appropriate. To me, risking a stay in the federal "pound my @$$" gray-bar hotel for something as silly as jacking homemade beer is silly. I go buy good bourbon to sip when I want it.

 

[chri5]

I'm a fairly experienced reader of ATF regulations...

Is the experience you are describing in relation to freeze concentration specifically, or are you extrapolating it based upon another type of violation?

 

[Paps]

If jacking fermented spirits was a good product we'd still be doing it. It lacks the ability to refine the alcohol content (remove higher and lower esters) that fractional distillation does.

Allthough you are correct about jacking not being able to remove the heads and the tails (higher/lower esters) I disagree that places stopped jacking because it makes a `bad product`. I think it has more to do with efficiency/speed of production.Jacking a large quantity of cider would be a huge PITA vs cooking it in an enclosed pot with a heat exchanger coming out the end of it.

With any luck in mid 2014 i will be getting a distillers license or perhaps a local brandy makers license and will produce true to form apple-jack using the big PITA method of freezing it.

Legality-----this is probably the 6th millionth debate on wether or not jacking is legal. Nobody here is a lawyer and state laws may vary so please everybody let's not argue over its legality & stick to what these forums are for.

 

[dlester]

Please respond with a link that reports on your friends arrest.

Thank you,

 

[PintoBean]

Allthough you are correct about jacking not being able to remove the heads and the tails (higher/lower esters) I disagree that places stopped jacking because it makes a `bad product`. I think it has more to do with efficiency/speed of production.Jacking a large quantity of cider would be a huge PITA vs cooking it in an enclosed pot with a heat exchanger coming out the end of it.

With any luck in mid 2014 i will be getting a distillers license or perhaps a local brandy makers license and will produce true to form apple-jack using the big PITA method of freezing it.

Legality-----this is probably the 6th millionth debate on wether or not jacking is legal. Nobody here is a lawyer and state laws may vary so please everybody let's not argue over its legality & stick to what these forums are for.

There shouldn't be a debate. It's illegal. The TTB regs spell it out loud and clear. There is nothing confusing about the law or any gray area to be misinterpreted. Regardless of state laws, it's illegal on the federal level.

That being said, I agree with everyone that the feds aren't going to come knocking down your door for freeze distilling a milk jug of hard cider...Regardless of angry ex-girlfriends and what not. They have bigger fish to fry. Now, if you're running 'shine tickle style, you might have something to worry about

 

[motobrewer]

paging cape brewing.

 

[dlester]

I'm a fairly experienced reader of ATF regulations - being a pyrotechnics person, but I am not a lawyer. I have spent a good deal of time across the table from ATF Investigators as well as with my own attorneys to make sure I stay a free man. I read 94-3 as well as 27 CFR 25.11 and here's what I take away from it:

Removing a "small quantity" of water (stated as no more than 0.5%) is "ice beer" and legal. Concentration of beer is what you are talking about and is only legal if you reconstitute it again. "Production" is not a commercial term, and is the only stipulation in the regulations (i,e, "you may produce ...").

So, removal of water from beer is not the same as removing alcohol from beer and thus not distillation - cool...

You will probably at this point not exercise your right to STFU and incriminate yourself for something. If this happens the rest of this "it happened to a friend of mine" story doesn't even apply to you. You will be convicted, lose your job and a lot of nice things. Oh and if they happen to see a drill press or grinder and an AR-15 while looking for other things, you will also be charged with possession of tools and equipment to make an automatic weapon. Yes, seriously.

If you did STFU, hopefully you can afford a smart lawyer, experienced in all this, because a public defender will advise you to plead it out. That lawyer will be expensive and doesn't even want to hear about "I can sue them for false arrest and get your money that way". Nope, he wants cash. He makes his money whether you were too cute by far or not. You also likely can't sell your house or car for that cash because one of those was posted as collateral against your bail bond.

Months will drag by, you will become a raging ******* because of the stress, your wife will leave, your job (if you kept it this long) will eventually grow tired of being nice about it and find some other reason to fire you. Now you are broke, indicted, separated from your family, have no place to call home and no car to drive there.

Fast forward two years (this was a quick process this time) where said friend was acquitted. Would you believe his wife, kids, car, house, money, and job were not handed back to him? The nerve! But he was right all along, surely that means something. At this point you might have the stomach to try to file papers to get back all your things which I am sure have been stored safely in some federal locker somewhere. You still want that fridge back with all the food in it, right?

So, you were right, I was wrong. You can make your crappy "hard beer". That was definitely worth it.

First and foremost, go back to the beginning of this thread where I discuss that this is not distillation, or "freeze distillation." In fact, freeze distillation is a term used only in the brewing community, and therefore, is not a term used correctly.

I have contacted the the TTB because ATF no longer regulates this. They specifically stated that this is not distillation, but rather, concentration. And, there is no limit to the amount of concentration, or ice removed. Therefore, is not illegal. That is why you will never be able to prove your argument that your friend was arrested for concentrating beer.

I invite you and anyone else reading this post to contact the TTB. In addition, I would like to present a video from Basic Brewing, where they too, contacted the TTB, which stated it is not illegal. I will give you the link and repost it for everyone else.

Basic Brewing Barley Wine Ice Beer and letter from TTB:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nnR4trUKVo

 

[PintoBean]

First and foremost, go back to the beginning of this thread where I discuss that this is not distillation, or "freeze distillation." In fact, freeze distillation is a term used only in the brewing community, and therefore, is not a term used correctly.

I have contacted the the TTB because ATF no longer regulates this. They specifically stated that this is not distillation, but rather, concentration. And, there is no limit to the amount of concentration, or ice removed. Therefore, is not illegal. That is why you will never be able to prove your argument that your friend was arrested for concentrating beer.

I invite you and anyone else reading this post to contact the TTB. In addition, I would like to present a video from Basic Brewing, where they too, contacted the TTB, which stated it is not illegal. I will give you the link and repost it for everyone else.

Basic Brewing Barley Wine Ice Beer and letter from TTB:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nnR4trUKVo

It's not illegal to concentrate it and there is no limit, but you must reconstitute it before consuming it (or in the case of a commercial brewery, selling it).

Also, there is even confusion among TTB employees, one will tell you it's legal and the next that it's illegal.

 

[fearwig]

It's not illegal to concentrate it and there is no limit, but you must reconstitute it before consuming it (or in the case of a commercial brewery, selling it).

Also, there is even confusion among TTB employees, one will tell you it's legal and the next that it's illegal.

It's funny to me that you could fill a warehouse with this stuff, but if you taste it without putting water in it you are committing a violation. Basically the definition of unenforceable.

 

[PintoBean]

It's funny to me that you could fill a warehouse with this stuff, but if you taste it without putting water in it you are committing a violation. Basically the definition of unenforceable.

It's all about taxes man. There's actually been a lot of talk about the way they tax beers aged in used spirit barrels. Right now, a craft brewery (under 2,000,000 BBL/yr in the eyes of the TTB) is taxed at a rate of $7/BBL vs the $18/BBL if you exceed that threshold, regardless of the beer, alcohol content, post-fermentation treatments (such as aging in bourbon barrels), etc. That might change...they want to tax beers aged in used spirit barrels at a higher rate.

 

[dlester]

Everyone, the only ruling on Beer concentration is the taxation and labeling for commercial breweries by TTB, nothing else. It doesn't apply to home brewing and in their words, not mine: "is not illegal to concentrate beer."

Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nnR4trUKVo

 

[LBussy]

Someone asked where my experience with these regulations lie; it is from reading, interpreting, and following regulations in the explosives area. It's not specifically applicable but it does give me a lot of practice with navigating the CFR, where to look for definitions of the words they use, and so on. One step above someone who has never had to read and comply with them previously. One step below those who have posted on here who have experience with a TTB license (and who have also advised that you are definitely not completely legal).

My acquaintance's woes are not germane to the specific subject here - you can do a Google search on terms like "ATF charges acquittal" and find many such cases. The point I was trying to share is that you can be "right" and still not really enjoy being right. If you are asking for a link because you think I may be lying in some way in order to prove my point, I invite you to ignore me and continue on, believing other things you read on the Internet.

TTB is basically in charge of when you are doing things right, the ATF when you are not. Your immediate risk is however from your local police department who will arrest you and THEN bring in the DOJ for prosecution. Even if that conversation "goes your way" you still got arrested. If someone slapping handcuffs on you and rifling through your things is fine with you as long as you are never indicted, cool. I don't have that sort of flexibility in my day.

The OP made up his mind that he's legal and he wants to do this. Great, doesn't make me feel different about myself. I want to make sure everyone knows that if nothing else there is *confusion* even among those who are there to enforce the regs - and that means you could still find yourself treated as an "alleged perpetrator" rather than someone who is exercising their rights.

Finally, someone posted in another thread quite convincingly and authoritatively that the creation of "ice beer" removed ice rather than removed alcohol so is a different process and therefore legal. The problem when you split hairs is there is another half of the hair. The process espoused here does remove alcohol from the product in that it is frozen and the ice remains yet the concentrate is removed. This uses heat (because there is no such thing as cold in physics) and it's impact on different fractions of the product. You may now want to argue what I have just said. I don't care. I won't have to argue it in court. If you want a chance to do that to tell us how smart you are then by all means let us know how it works out.

 

[LBussy]

Everyone, the only ruling on Beer concentration is the taxation and labeling for commercial breweries by TTB, nothing else. It doesn't apply to home brewing and in their words, not mine: "is not illegal to concentrate beer."

Right ... and the rest of the ruling says "so long as it is reconstituted."

 

[motobrewer]

Someone asked where my experience with these regulations lie; it is from reading, interpreting, and following regulations in the explosives area. It's not specifically applicable but it does give me a lot of practice with navigating the CFR, where to look for definitions of the words they use, and so on. One step above someone who has never had to read and comply with them previously. One step below those who have posted on here who have experience with a TTB license (and who have also advised that you are definitely not completely legal).

My acquaintance's woes are not germane to the specific subject here - you can do a Google search on terms like "ATF charges acquittal" and find many such cases. The point I was trying to share is that you can be "right" and still not really enjoy being right. If you are asking for a link because you think I may be lying in some way in order to prove my point, I invite you to ignore me and continue on, believing other things you read on the Internet.

TTB is basically in charge of when you are doing things right, the ATF when you are not. Your immediate risk is however from your local police department who will arrest you and THEN bring in the DOJ for prosecution. Even if that conversation "goes your way" you still got arrested. If someone slapping handcuffs on you and rifling through your things is fine with you as long as you are never indicted, cool. I don't have that sort of flexibility in my day.

The OP made up his mind that he's legal and he wants to do this. Great, doesn't make me feel different about myself. I want to make sure everyone knows that if nothing else there is *confusion* even among those who are there to enforce the regs - and that means you could still find yourself treated as an "alleged perpetrator" rather than someone who is exercising their rights.

Finally, someone posted in another thread quite convincingly and authoritatively that the creation of "ice beer" removed ice rather than removed alcohol so is a different process and therefore legal. The problem when you split hairs is there is another half of the hair. The process espoused here does remove alcohol from the product in that it is frozen and the ice remains yet the concentrate is removed. This uses heat (because there is no such thing as cold in physics) and it's impact on different fractions of the product. You may now want to argue what I have just said. I don't care. I won't have to argue it in court. If you want a chance to do that to tell us how smart you are then by all means let us know how it works out.

you, need a hobby.

 

[dlester]

Someone asked where my experience with these regulations lie; it is from reading, interpreting, and following regulations in the explosives area. It's not specifically applicable but it does give me a lot of practice with navigating the CFR, where to look for definitions of the words they use, and so on. One step above someone who has never had to read and comply with them previously. One step below those who have posted on here who have experience with a TTB license (and who have also advised that you are definitely not completely legal).

My acquaintance's woes are not germane to the specific subject here - you can do a Google search on terms like "ATF charges acquittal" and find many such cases. The point I was trying to share is that you can be "right" and still not really enjoy being right. If you are asking for a link because you think I may be lying in some way in order to prove my point, I invite you to ignore me and continue on, believing other things you read on the Internet.

TTB is basically in charge of when you are doing things right, the ATF when you are not. Your immediate risk is however from your local police department who will arrest you and THEN bring in the DOJ for prosecution. Even if that conversation "goes your way" you still got arrested. If someone slapping handcuffs on you and rifling through your things is fine with you as long as you are never indicted, cool. I don't have that sort of flexibility in my day.

The OP made up his mind that he's legal and he wants to do this. Great, doesn't make me feel different about myself. I want to make sure everyone knows that if nothing else there is *confusion* even among those who are there to enforce the regs - and that means you could still find yourself treated as an "alleged perpetrator" rather than someone who is exercising their rights.

Finally, someone posted in another thread quite convincingly and authoritatively that the creation of "ice beer" removed ice rather than removed alcohol so is a different process and therefore legal. The problem when you split hairs is there is another half of the hair. The process espoused here does remove alcohol from the product in that it is frozen and the ice remains yet the concentrate is removed. This uses heat (because there is no such thing as cold in physics) and it's impact on different fractions of the product. You may now want to argue what I have just said. I don't care. I won't have to argue it in court. If you want a chance to do that to tell us how smart you are then by all means let us know how it works out.

Wow, your in the wrong forum, see Drunken Ramblings and Mindless Mumbling.

 

[LBussy]

It's amusing the regularity to which a thoughtful discourse will devolve into name calling and impugning another's character on the Internet. Does that mean you were out of constructive things to say? Chances are you will never know if you or I were right or wrong - but not being wrong is not the same as being right.

Enjoy your ... product. I know I'll enjoy my own choices.

 

[PintoBean]

Everyone, the only ruling on Beer concentration is the taxation and labeling for commercial breweries by TTB, nothing else. It doesn't apply to home brewing and in their words, not mine: "is not illegal to concentrate beer."

Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6nnR4trUKVo

You are held to the same TTB regulations at home as a commercial brewery. You are just given a break by the government that allows you brew up to 100 gallons/yr tax free (200 gallons if there's two adults over 21 in the household) as long as you don't sell it.

http://www.ttb.gov/beer/beer-faqs.shtml

http://us-code.vlex.com/vid/sec-exemptions-19210894

 

[butterpants]

The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence!

Say what again

 

[dlester]

It's amusing the regularity to which a thoughtful discourse will devolve into name calling and impugning another's character on the Internet. Does that mean you were out of constructive things to say? Chances are you will never know if you or I were right or wrong - but not being wrong is not the same as being right.

Enjoy your ... product. I know I'll enjoy my own choices.

Thank you for keeping your comments to a few sentences.

 

[dlester]

You are held to the same TTB regulations at home as a commercial brewery. You are just given a break by the government that allows you brew up to 100 gallons/yr tax free (200 gallons if there's two adults over 21 in the household) as long as you don't sell it.

http://www.ttb.gov/beer/beer-faqs.shtml

http://us-code.vlex.com/vid/sec-exemptions-19210894

I looked it up and it appears the maximum number of gallons allowed is a homebrewer using a commercial breweries equipment, or BOP (Brewery on Premises).

Thanks for the info.

 

[dlester]

You are held to the same TTB regulations at home as a commercial brewery. You are just given a break by the government that allows you brew up to 100 gallons/yr tax free (200 gallons if there's two adults over 21 in the household) as long as you don't sell it.

http://www.ttb.gov/beer/beer-faqs.shtml

http://us-code.vlex.com/vid/sec-exemptions-19210894

Reading further, I found that you are absolutely correct. An individual home brewer may produce beer as you noted "tax free." I assume you need to pay taxes above those amounts?

This is very good information. Thank you. :rockin:

 

[chri5]

Reading further, I found that you are absolutely correct. An individual home brewer may produce beer as you noted "tax free." I assume you need to pay taxes above those amounts?

This is very good information. Thank you. :rockin:

No you simply cannot (legally) do so without possible charges. Odds are low that would happen.

 

[chri5]

It's amusing the regularity to which a thoughtful discourse will devolve into name calling and impugning another's character on the Internet. Does that mean you were out of constructive things to say? Chances are you will never know if you or I were right or wrong - but not being wrong is not the same as being right.

Enjoy your ... product. I know I'll enjoy my own choices.

Agreed. No point to devolve into name calling.

 

[dlester]

Good idea to have some water with your booze anyway, I say. Reconstitute it in your stomach!

Really though, unless you are selling this or sharing it on a massive scale, you are not going to have feds at your door.

You can go to jail for hosting a poker game, too--but you don't, unless you're doing it for profit, or otherwise attracting bad attention, because it would be ludicrous. If you call an ATF tipline (or whatever they have) and report your neighbor for putting milk jugs full of cider in a snow drift, you'll be laughed off the line.

On the other hand, if your house looks like the Branch Davidian complex, maybe you should stay straight and narrow.

Funny! Your right and have a good view of life...It doesn't help that I live in a Davidian style complex, right? So far, best response.

 

[dlester]

It was as hot tasting as the original. I had a feeling it would be though. Concentrating a bad flavor can only make it worse right? Lol

Ive made numerous beers that abv that were drinkable in a few weeks. Looks like I need to tweak this some more. I still have 3+ gallons of this on the yeast. I'm moving it to secondary this week for aging, I'll try again with 2L of it when I think its ready for bottling.

I'll update this thread when I try it again.

Chris5, I re-read this post and was thinking that you most likely added white sugar and fermented it at room temperature? That, in my experience, is a recipe for "hot liquor" flavors. White sugar gives off harsh flavored alcohol in the first place, which even over time won't calm down.
Why not try concentrated corn syrup or beer extract? We all know that the best bourbon is made with corn and/or malted barley. Maybe that will calm down the harsh flavors. I think I'll try the same on my next Apple Cider

 

[butterpants]

White sugar gives off harsh flavored alcohol in the first place, which even over time won't calm down.

My Tripel begs to differ

 

[dlester]

My Tripel begs to differ

Your going to have to send me a large bottle of that Tripel

 

[MobyMD]

Great work on this. I am sure it tastes wonderful now but it will get better with time. I did this a while back. Made an imperial stout and then freeze concentrated it five times over. The problem is the process is very inefficient. I agree with you in a perfect world if you remove 75% of the water you would be left with around a 40% beer. However, it isn't a perfect world and the ice you removed had plenty of alcohol trapped in it. I tested the specific gravity of the ice that I removed each time and it was still in the 1.005-1.010 range. So definitely some of the sugar was coming with it but the alcohol too. That was why I did it over and over again. It was concentrating the alcohol for sure because the freezing took longer each time. The last freeze I had to use dry ice to even make it freeze. After all that work it still was not over 40% because it would not light with a match. That is where the term "proof" came from....it would light on fire at 40%. If yours does not light up it's not 40%. Even though it is not 40% it is definitely a higher ABV than before the freeze. It is a fun project and I plan on doing it again sometime.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/bi-polar-bear-30-abv-367718/

 

[dlester]

Great work on this. I am sure it tastes wonderful now but it will get better with time. I did this a while back...Even though it is not 40% it is definitely a higher ABV than before the freeze. It is a fun project and I plan on doing it again sometime.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/bi-polar-bear-30-abv-367718/

I read your recipe and believe this must have been good. I agree that it isn't as simple as I made it to figure the alcohol strength by volume alone. I also think that using the hydrometer is not as accurate either. You have a concentration of beer, adjuncts and the like, which interfere with the reading. I think that we can agree, however that it tastes pretty damn strong, right?

I think that this is such a big topic, that someone should make several batches, use your's and my theory on ABV and maybe we could come up with some formula that would be more accurate?

Until then,
Cheers

 

[fearwig]

Pretty sure you anyone with both a refractometer and a hydrometer can get absolute ABV with the right formula (you need both). I don't vouch for this calculator or anything but the science is sound enough, there should be some formula that makes it work.

http://www.brewheads.com/refract-getabw.php

I have seen this formula quoted on a board but I wasn't clear on the source:
ABV = [277.8851 - 277.4(SG) + 0.9956(Brix) + 0.00523(Brix2) + 0.000013(Brix3)] x (SG/0.79)

I don't have a refractometer, but that's a decent enough reason to get one by itself.

Now, if I were to apply that to this thread, I'd start by measuring the melted ice. (If you find out it's in the 4-5% abv range send it to Anheuser, they'll add caramel color and roll it out as their next craft beer.)