Bottling first sour/brett beer..

[riored4v]

My Brett beer is about where I want it so I'm getting ready to start the process of carbonating and bottling.

I have seperate racking equipment i've set aside for this, so I'm not worried about contaminating it with the bugs. That said, I plan to rack to a keg to carbonate.

From there, i was thinking of using my blichmann beer gun to transfer it all in to bottles. Once its all been chilled down and carbonated, is there much worry about infecting the lines for the beer gun? What about if it was on tap.. any concern there?

Thanks!

 

[dantheman13]

Brett is killed by starsan as long as your cleaning regiments are thorough. You should be fine.

 

[riored4v]

Just star san? What about stuff like BLC? Just thinking that if I was to end up kegging it, and running it through my lines, I likely wouldnt run star san through them. Just a warm BLC solution and some water.

Would this also hold true for any of the other wild yeasts? Just wondering for any future sour beers I might do

 

[finsfan]

Since brett is not a bacteria, proper cleaning will get rid of it. Chad Yakobson recommends heat to kill it, but beer lines may not work with that. Rinse multiple times, maybe even a soak in BLC or PWB and then run starsan through it. I wouldnt skip the starsan part and dont skimp on cleaning.

 

[riored4v]

Sounds good. Thanks!

Off topic (kinda).. but I have a keg of Tart Lychee on tap. I dont know exactly what souring yeasts NB used for that beer, but would this same process of hot water, PBW, more hot water and star san work for cleaning out the lines?

 

[finsfan]

Sounds good. Thanks!

Off topic (kinda).. but I have a keg of Tart Lychee on tap. I dont know exactly what souring yeasts NB used for that beer, but would this same process of hot water, PBW, more hot water and star san work for cleaning out the lines?

I would just to be safe. If NB is referring to New Belgium though, their beers are pasteurized. Not everything is killed in that process so I would still clean them well, but it wont be as likely to infect anything further.

 

[riored4v]

I would just to be safe. If NB is referring to New Belgium though, their beers are pasteurized. Not everything is killed in that process so I would still clean them well, but it wont be as likely to infect anything further.

Correct.. NB being New Belgium.

Good to know and thanks for the info. Much appreciated!

 

[finsfan]

Correct.. NB being New Belgium.

Good to know and thanks for the info. Much appreciated!

No problem. In thinking about this, I only know that NB pasteurizes to bottle so this might be different when kegging, but again im not too sure. If anything, over cleaning wont ever hurt.

 

[riored4v]

No problem. In thinking about this, I only know that NB pasteurizes to bottle so this might be different when kegging, but again im not too sure. If anything, over cleaning wont ever hurt.

Do these same cleaninng processes apply to strains such as Lacto, Pedio, etc? Or this specific to Brett? Like i said above, the packaging process of sours is something I've never really thought about until now.

 

[finsfan]

Do these same cleaninng processes apply to strains such as Lacto, Pedio, etc? Or this specific to Brett? Like i said above, the packaging process of sours is something I've never really thought about until now.

I think lacto and pedio should be treated differently and with more caution, but im not sure you can "clean" them off of surfaces that have been in contact with them. Im not sure if that is true, but my understanding is if you've used a siphon in a lacto beer you wouldnt wanna use it for anything but sours. With brett, as long as you clean properly you could use that siphon for non-sour beers. Hopefully someone else chimes in here with more information about lacto and pedio, but I know for certain brett only equipment can be cleaned and reused, if done properly.

 

[riored4v]

I think lacto and pedio should be treated differently and with more caution, but im not sure you can "clean" them off of surfaces that have been in contact with them. Im not sure if that is true, but my understanding is if you've used a siphon in a lacto beer you wouldnt wanna use it for anything but sours. With brett, as long as you clean properly you could use that siphon for non-sour beers. Hopefully someone else chimes in here with more information about lacto and pedio, but I know for certain brett only equipment can be cleaned and reused, if done properly.

I'm pretty sure that is true for the transfer equipment. I've set aside some transfer equipment for this Brett beer, but I figure I can use for it any other sour beers. I guess my biggest concern would be once its kegged ( the tap lines) or if I was to bottle it (the beer line & beer gun), if those then have to become seperate equipment.

 

[finsfan]

I'm pretty sure that is true for the transfer equipment. I've set aside some transfer equipment for this Brett beer, but I figure I can use for it any other sour beers. I guess my biggest concern would be once its kegged ( the tap lines) or if I was to bottle it (the beer line & beer gun), if those then have to become seperate equipment.

For brett only, I would say you can use it for anything once properly cleaned.

 

[dantheman13]

I don't see how Lacto and Pedio aren't killed by proper cleaning and sanitation. If that wasn't the case, infection rates in homebrew would still be through the roof despite all of the preaching about "sanitation, sanitation, sanitation", and great products like PBW and Starsan.

IMO, the idea behind using separate equipment is a "just in case" safety net more than anything. Since hosing, racking canes, plastic syphons, etc. are so cheap, it's a very cost effective safety net (that's why I do it). Plastics can suffer from scratching, which can be hard to clean/sanitize if they can't withstand boiling, but that is the only logical reason I can think of to have two sets of equipment.

 

[PAjwPhilly]

I don't see how Lacto and Pedio aren't killed by proper cleaning and sanitation. If that wasn't the case, infection rates in homebrew would still be through the roof despite all of the preaching about "sanitation, sanitation, sanitation", and great products like PBW and Starsan.

IMO, the idea behind using separate equipment is a "just in case" safety net more than anything. Since hosing, racking canes, plastic syphons, etc. are so cheap, it's a very cost effective safety net (that's why I do it). Plastics can suffer from scratching, which can be hard to clean/sanitize if they can't withstand boiling, but that is the only logical reason I can think of to have two sets of equipment.

I am working on the same assumption. The hard plastics can be cleaned/sanitized but the soft rubber materials may or may not get 100% cleaned/sanitized.

With that in mind, I do not keg my sours. I was told that the corny keg rubber top and bottom can harbor the microbes as well. Since they should not touch your beer... it isn't that big of a deal. But I won't take the chance of it happening and getting all my kegs infected. Which could in turn infect all my DCs and lines. I just bottle.

 

[solbes]

I bottle my sours as well, though I am interested in the proposed kegging. I'm probably overly paranoid, but I have suffered gusher infections before.

I use a separate bottling wand and racking cane for wild ales. I bypassed the bottling bucket as I don't want 2 of those. I added a measured amount of dry sugar and a few sprinkles of dry ale yeast to each bottle before transferring. Worked great actually, perfect carbonation.

 

[PAjwPhilly]

I have been toying with idea of using 1 spignot (rubber gasket issue) for "normals" and another for sours. Since the bucket is hard plastic... and I clean my stuff very well, I think I will be fine.

Although, I only bottle high ABV beers so they are not on tap 24/7... like 9% and up. I still like my bucket for normals every now and then.

Update: StarSan has responded that it kills lactobacillus, but left out the other microbes (Brett & pedio). I know pediococcus is horribly hard to get rid of after it infects something... so maybe they did that on purpose.

 

[sweetcell]

Since the bucket is hard plastic... and I clean my stuff very well, I think I will be fine.

the issue with plastic is that it scratches, so there is the potential that bugs - which are 1/10 as big as yeast - can hide in there. the star san can't get all the way into a small fissures, but bugs can. this is the argument in favor of having separate plastics for sour & clean beers. glass doesn't scratch as easily and it's smooth, so there is nowhere for bugs to burrow in.

Update: StarSan has responded that it kills lactobacillus, but left out the other microbes (Brett & pedio). I know pediococcus is horribly hard to get rid of after it infects something... so maybe they did that on purpose.

i'm pretty sure star san kills pedio too, if it can get to it. again, the reason why pedio and lacto are so scary is that they hide in places that liquid cleaners can't always get to. lacto, as far as i know, is equally hard to get rid of once it has taken up residence.