Boil and Stop Technique and Some No Chill Considerations

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applescrap

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A little background. I decided that I dont like no chill brewing for a few reasons. I dont think that I have ever got the hops right and I am not convinced the taste is the same. Also, I have found its easier to just be done with it rather than "brew" over two days. To me this takes away from its convenience. I mean once everything else is being cleaned and put away I like cleaning the ic and kettle too. Instead of cleaning the kettle at a later time. That being said, it was cold here yesterday and well I really didnt have another option. Since I was brewing 10g, I wasn't in the mood for carrying it inside and chilling in the sink.

First I wanted to get the hops right. The recipe called for 37 ibus, which brewers friends calculators was calculating at 30 to 37 based on recipe. I really wanted to get the hops right. I considered a brulosophy experiment where boil hops were added throughout the boil in one beer and the entire charge was added as a hop stand at the end. And it turned out the people were unable to discern a difference between the beers. Equally important as the lab coming back with very close ibus. One beer I think was 34 and one 30 ibus. So I started playing with the calculator and noticed that if I set the calculator to 600 minutes it was near the same as 60. I can't remember the number, but I think it's after 3 hours the isomerization stopped. But after 45 minutes most was done, it was like 45 mins 29 ibus, 60 min 30, 600 min 33. The recipe called for something like 25 ibus at 60 (1.44 oz 5% aa), and 8 ibus at 15 mins (.063 oz 5 aa). And a finaly charge of .063 at 0 mins. Since I was doing no chill I couldn't think of a way to really do the 15-minute hops or the flame out. So I decided to add all the Hops at one charge based on the maximized calculation of 32 or so ibus, and the number was 3 oz. I figured it didn't matter when I threw it in because it was going to cook for plenty longer. I ended up throwing them in with 10 minutes left in the boil. I'll update with the results.

The above got me thinking though, since the beer remains at or near boiling temperature for a substantial amount of time, especially considering outside air temperature; what would happen if the beer came to a boil and was allowed to just rest. Wouldn't this mimic very close to boiling the wort? I mean we know that isomerisation surely happens, the idea of a vigorous boil for 90 minutes being needed to drive off DMS is not always necessary with todays modern malts, and that no boil raw ale works too. Perhaps if I was to bring a beer to a boil and stop it. It would remain hot enough, long enough, to mimic a boil and deal with some of the issues of no boil. Also, this would shorten the brew day.
 
Interesting thought.
I’d say the resulting beer is going to be different for sure.
Heat matters an so does time.

You can’t make toast at 200*F no matter how long you keep it there. You’ll make croutons.

Here’s a controversial one:
Chili is just not the same in a crockpot no matter how long it sits. You need that higher heat to get all those reactions going just right. Sweat aromatics, brown meat, caramalize sugars, and those Maillard reactions.

I’m not saying it will be bad beer, just different.
You’ve already noticed the difference in no chill.
Sounds like it’s worth a shot.
You thinking of bringing to a boil, stop, then chill 1 hour later? Or no chill?
 
Yep, boil, then no chill, the no chill being the boiling part. You make some good points. Haha, like the chilli analogy. Sure high heat sears the meat and also the bread. The top heat for boiling water in colorado is 203. I am not an engineer of any kind so I'm not sure but I think that that is as hot as it can go, right? Anyways if boiling is 203, and the beer remained at 203 202 or 201 for over an hour how much of a difference would there be? Assuming there was a difference, how much would it matter? There has been much research on 30-minute boils what if the beer was boiled for 10 minutes and then let cool, seems like it couldn't be to off far off from a 30-minute boil?!
 
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Don't forget that you're doing more that just isomerization of hop compounds during the boil. (increasing gravity, reducing volume, DMS reduction, maybe some caramelization of sugars, etc) Some of those can be compensated for though. Sure would cut down on energy consumption .
 
Bump, anyone ever try this. I noticed I lost plenty to evaporation so I think it was still pretty hot in there. Hot enough to isomerize? Hot enough for reactions? I don't know.

I feel pretty good about my no chill hop tips, if the Brewers friend calculator does that. A lot of advice calls for 20 minute delay of hop additions, but I am all but convinced that high temperature whirlpools can stay hot enough, long enough, to substantially impact ibus. I read that the new beersmith 2.3 has no chill hop calculations. Can anyone share some no chill ibu calculations or lead me to finding some.
 
This is such good stuff, thanks. [emoji121] [emoji110] [emoji109]

I had a few beers last night and wasn't sure I was entirely understanding it. Am I getting it right that there was full utilization of the Hops in 10 minutes at boiling temperature. Also there was hop iso at 145?
 
Am I getting it right that there was full utilization of the Hops in 10 minutes at boiling temperature. Also there was hop iso at 145?

As I read it, Figure 2 shows relative utilization - or the utilization compared to what would happen at boiling. So the U_Rel of 1 on the upper right just shows all of the curves meeting at boiling temp - not full utilization at 10 minutes.

And yes, it seems that there is very little, but some, utilization at 145F. It looks like about .04 times the utilization at boiling.

I've adjusted the hop stand formulas in my brewing spreadsheet based on this info, so I hope it's correct, or reasonably close. And I hope I understand it correctly. It's not far off from the formulas that I was using based on my own perception of bitterness.
 
I think the main takeaway from this experiment is that ibu is not only a number describing alpha acids levels, but also isomerized and oxidized beta acid and polyphenols.

The latter two are not as heavily dependant on higher temperatures for their utilization as alpha acid is, therefore there will be ibus at lower temperatures. But those ibus "contain" more beta acid and polyphenols than the high temperature samples as the utilization ratio between alpha and beta + polyphenols changes with lowering the temperature, favoring beta + polyphenols the lower the temperature gets.
 
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