Blue beer: lets beat this dead horse

[Grod1]

Back in 2011 this thread was made( Coloring your beer blue?)but nothing ever came of it.The post ends with it not being possible.
Now we all ask ourselves Why? it doesn't matter. wow factor... The kids will love it...
So the obvious answer is add way to much blue food coloring. yes, blue and yellow makes green.But enough blue food coloring will work.
lets say we want to make it organic/ natural, or at least as close as you can to it
A Japanese company that makes and sells blue beer says "The blue color comes from blue seaweed, flowers, water from melted icebergs and Chinese yam."
I might try this blue green algae idea and see how far this gets me.In my slight bit of research. I also found butterfly pea flowers that are used to make a blue tea they are relatively inexpensive. i just bought 150 grams and thats where i will start playing around.
i am considering using blueberry juice to turn the base beer pinkish so that way i'm not battling green.Lots of rice syrup solids might come into play but that stuff aint cheap
anyway, anyone,please share any input any experiments you know of any links that might help.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I also found butterfly pea flowers that are used to make a blue tea they are relatively inexpensive.

Ah, good old Clitoria. You want to be careful with that, as I suspect it acts like litmus and will go pink in something as acid as beer. Certainly I assume that's what's happening with Sharish "magic gin", which is blue-ish but turns pink when you add tonic and lemon, and contains Clitoria.

 

[Ogroat]

Ah, good old Clitoria. You want to be careful with that, as I suspect it acts like litmus and will go pink in something as acid as beer. Certainly I assume that's what's happening with Sharish "magic gin", which is blue-ish but turns pink when you add tonic and lemon, and contains Clitoria.

I think that you’re probably correct. There was a bit of a butterfly pea craze on the /r/mead subreddit last year and they all came out quite purple.

 

[passedpawn]

You don't want to make a blue beer. You want a clear beer. Then add blue. Blue is a primary color. To make blue, you MUST have blue and nothing else.

If you can make a clear beer, the sky's the limit. You can add coloring to get any other color. So, barley's probably out of the question because it's gonna make yellow. Consider other grains. Look into the gluten free forum. Might need to add additional enzymes for mash conversion.

Consider using all wheat for first try. That would be a light beer. There's a reason witbier is called that (white beer).

 

[BBBF]

You don't want to make a blue beer. You want a clear beer. Then add blue. Blue is a primary color. To make blue, you MUST have blue and nothing else.

If you can make a clear beer, the skies the limit. You can add coloring to get any other color. So, barley's probably out of the question because it's gonna make yellow. Consider other grains. Look into the gluten free forum. Might need to add additional enzymes for mash conversion.

Consider using all wheat for first try. That would be a light beer. There's a reason witbier is called that (white beer).

Start with Zima.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

Ah, good old Clitoria. You want to be careful with that, as I suspect it acts like litmus and will go pink in something as acid as beer. Certainly I assume that's what's happening with Sharish "magic gin", which is blue-ish but turns pink when you add tonic and lemon, and contains Clitoria.

I once once considered adding Clitoris to my beer, but ultimately pussed out on the idea.

 

[Grod1]

so right now what im thinking is
35.5% white wheat
23.5% rice syrup solids
23.5% pilsen liquid malt extract
17.5% cane sugar
with my shitty efficiency of 68% that still gives me a 4.5% beer with a srm of 2.5
Calcium Chloride, up to 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons before the boil to help the color of the clit.
i get blue is a primary color. so my goal will be -get as close to blue as i can.
with that said. i might do a separate brew that is red to add the clit to.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I'd check the pH response first - just boil some up in existing beer, see what colour you get. If it isn't blue below eg pH7 then you're wasting your time.

 

[RedIvan16]

This might be a good thread to ask - has anyone tried adding blue corn to a beer? I'm thinking of substituting a purple or blue corn for flaked corn in a cream ale recipe I brew sometimes. The idea is to hopefully get some of that purpely/blue color you see in blue tortillas from Mexico. I think it would be a fun addition to a lighter beer with a lot of corn in the grist - cream ale, Mexican lager, that sort of thing

 

[madscientist451]

If there was a HBT hall of fame for posts, I'd nominate this:

I once once considered adding Clitoris to my beer, but ultimately pussed out on the idea.

But back to the OP's question, would frozen/mashed blueberries in secondary work?

 

[bleme]

All my blueberry beers have come out purple.

 

[jjw5015]

Tired Hands made an IPA a few years ago using butterfly peaflowers. Looked more purple/gray than blue. It was called Prismatic Sea. Google for pics

 

[Grod1]

"I'd check the pH response first - just boil some up in existing beer, see what colour you get. If it isn't blue below eg pH7 then you're wasting your time."
Thats a pretty shitty statement. you basically just said- if you try once and its not what you want give up and never try again.i would give you a bad ratting if i could. this is what 50 grams looks like in 5 gallons of beer with a srm if 3.75
adding one or two other ingredient could never help make it a royal blue...

 

[jjw5015]

I once once considered adding Clitoris to my beer, but ultimately pussed out on the idea.

I tried using it too, but couldn't find it as usual.

 

[Grod1]

ebay... i bet if you could find it locally it would be 2-4X the cost then the web.
I just paid $14 for 150 grams shipped.

 

[GilaMinumBeer]

ebay... i bet if you could find it locally it would be 2-4X the cost then the web.
I just paid $14 for 150 grams shipped.

 

[jerbrew]

"I'd check the pH response first - just boil some up in existing beer, see what colour you get. If it isn't blue below eg pH7 then you're wasting your time."
Thats a pretty poopyty statement. you basically just said- if you try once and its not what you want give up and never try again.i would give you a bad ratting if i could. this is what 50 grams looks like in 5 gallons of beer with a srm if 3.75
adding one or two other ingredient could never help make it a royal blue...

That's not blue but it is a very cool shade of purple.

 

[Grod1]

throw some SPIRULINA POWDER in there maybe? some beets? some blue corn chips, or some Blue potato. 50#s of blue corn is $70 @ $1.40# its the same price or cheaper the flaked corn it seems like it could be a decent thing to try tho its not pre gelatinized

 

[gometz]

Blue corn won't work, I tried once. The blue color just come from a stretch because it lost its color during the mash.

 

[grampamark]

I tried using it too, but couldn't find it as usual.

ebay... i bet if you could find it locally it would be 2-4X the cost then the web.
I just paid $14 for 150 grams shipped.

Whoosh!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

"I'd check the pH response first - just boil some up in existing beer, see what colour you get. If it isn't blue below eg pH7 then you're wasting your time."
Thats a pretty poopyty statement. you basically just said- if you try once and its not what you want give up and never try again.i would give you a bad ratting if i could. this is what 50 grams looks like in 5 gallons of beer with a srm if 3.75
adding one or two other ingredient could never help make it a royal blue...

Huh? I think you're missing my point. I've mentioned a commercial product that relies on the fact that Clitoria will change colour in a drink, and I've guessed that it is pH dependent like litmus. I don't know for certain, but it's a hypothesis. pH is a pretty fundamental property of beer - normal beer has a pH just over 4. So if Clitoria is blue at pH 4 then everything's OK and it's worth pursuing. If it's pink at pH4 then there's a problem. If the changeover happens at say pH4.2 and it's blue above that pH then you can probably manipulate the pH to keep the colour blue and the beer will still taste OK. If the changeover happens at aroun pH7 then you have a big problem because the beer will just taste weird (and also be more vulnerable to infection).

So all I was suggesting is that you test Clitoria for pH sensitivity, and work out where the colour change happens. I don't see what is so controversial about that.

 

[Grod1]

just found this on a reddit page. picture from "dragonkight"
50 butterfly pea flowers in 1 gallon of 12% mead- unknown PH

 

[passedpawn]

why don't you just make a tea out of some flowers and add to coors light for test?

 

[Grod1]

I'm not sure what that would test, personally I dont think would do anything except make a magenta-ish nasty flavored drink.
im pretty sure the trick here is going to be a combination of adjuncts.

 

[passedpawn]

I'm not sure what that would test, personally I dont think would do anything except make a magenta-ish nasty flavored drink.
im pretty sure the trick here is going to be a combination of adjuncts.

I was just suggesting that as an alternative to doing it with a full batch of beer. I think the pH of the beer is going to turn the color to pink/purple.

As a side note, I'm gonna use those flowers to make blue food. Can't wait!

 

[KYBLUE]

As a Kentucky Wildcats fan this blue beer thing intrigues me.

A little tidbit from my friend the internet(eater.com); "Butterfly pea tea has an incredibly sensitive pH balance, meaning even the slightest shift in acidity can turn a beverage from deep blue, to a vibrant plum, to a fizzy magenta. The drink becomes a sippable chameleon: The more acid that comes in contact with the tea, the lighter in color it becomes. From pH 8 to pH 4, the tea is a regal shade of blue. It quickly shifts into deep purple terrain at pH 3, and finally bursts into carnation pink territory at pH 2."

 

[NinjaBear]

I was obsessed with a blue beer when I first started brewing.

Everything that is naturally blue in the wild is blue-green above pH 7 and purple-red below.

I did a lot of experiments with Red Cabbage, (yes) blueberries, etc.

And no matter how blue I got my wort… it always turns purple-red during fermentation. The yeast push the pH below 7.

I experimented with baking soda to get it back up to 7 and blue. But on small volumes it goes from red/pink to green too easily.

Working with a full batch and careful pH testing you might be able to get it to shift back to blue.

But careful, too much gives an odd flavor.

I searched for a long time for an adjunct I could add in secondary that would slowly raise the pH. But came up empty handed their too. At least with out adding undesirable flavors.

 

[NinjaBear]

Also… I’ve never had a supply of butterfly pea flowers to try them.

Also, natural green is also tricky. I’ve had many green worts… only to have all the green fall out of suspension with the yeast and trub during fermentation.

 

[Grod1]

thank you so much for your response ninjabear. That gives me a lot to take into account.
any pictures of close attempts?
peas themselves not the flower have a ph from 6-8. maybe some snowpea in secondary could help with color retention.cucumbers are pretty high aswell.I also see on a chart here that lemon grass has a ph of 9!. i saw a lot of lemongrass butterfly pea blends when i was ordering perhaps for a reason more so then taste.

 

[NinjaBear]

I had the hardest time finding the pH of different foods because google kept giving me bs homeopathic “cures” of drinking apple cider vinegar to raise your bodies pH.

Though I did learn that most herbs are basic.

And another experiment with replacing hops with herbs (because I had read that’s how it was made before hops were discovered)

Herbs are less stable. They start off with a nice flavor. But turn bitter over time. Which even that bitterness mellows eventually.

Though lemon grass… that could be a good flavor in beer…

 

[NinjaBear]

Ingredients I was using on this attempt.

I did a long boil of just the cabbage to extract as much of the color as possible. (I was still using a five gallon canning pot back then because I was new, using what I had, and hadn’t upgraded to a proper 7 gallon stainless steel pot yet.

The wort was purple in the fermenter...
(Which I don’t seem to have a picture of)
but some of the splatter from the boil was hopeful.

After about a week fermenting, it became this Redish pink color.

When trying some different types of basic ingredients to add to raise the pH. (I believe one was baking soda and the other was a calcium supplement.)

But I didn’t have the lab controls to get a precise ratio and was only operating on sight/color and not pH measuring.

And trying to do the same with the beer I eventually made it all un drinkable.

 

[NinjaBear]

Judging on the jar, this one looked like a one gallon beer.

This wasn’t my last attempt. I tried a five gallon batch after that thinking less malt and more corn sugars would give it a lighter body that’s easier to fight the natural beer colors.

Ended up with a pink beer that I told everyone was Fairy beer. But it had almost no flavor and no one actually liked it.

 

[passedpawn]

This thread is awesome!



I made some Clitoria tea this morning with 5 flowers. As expected, dark blue. Added some lemon juice and it turned violet. Taste is much like a light herbal tea flavor - nothing overpowering (think chamomile). I have a pH meter, so if anybody wants me to do an experiment or something, let me know. I've got a low-ABV light pale ale on tap (homebrew) that I could test with.

I'm going to make a cheese (brie) with it today. Cheese cultures lower the pH, so I expect the cheese to turn pink/purple. Brie is a bloomy rind cheese, where a thin layer of mold grows on the outside. So, the outside of the cheese should be white, with the color interior. Also gonna make blue rice and top with carrot peas (that I make with sodium alginate / spherification). Should be... weird.

 

[Grod1]

post pics of blue dinner

 

[passedpawn]

post pics of blue dinner

Check it.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/what-did-i-cook-this-weekend.435844/page-325#post-8194578

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I made some Clitoria tea this morning with 5 flowers. As expected, dark blue. Added some lemon juice and it turned violet. Taste is much like a light herbal tea flavor - nothing overpowering (think chamomile). I have a pH meter, so if anybody wants me to do an experiment or something, let me know. I've got a low-ABV light pale ale on tap (homebrew) that I could test with.

If I was in your position, I'd first confirm that a tea of just Clitoria and water made the transition at pH4, with fairly big additions of lemon juice/vinegar to start with. Then I'd investigate whether the transition happened over a fairly narrow range of pH's or whether it went suddenly, using small additions of acid/base. Then I'd see whether the pH was the same in beer - there may be other factors in beer that mess with the transition and "pull" it to a different pH.

If the magic pH is around 4 then that could get interesting as a way of detecting whether your beer was in condition or had started to turn to vinegar!

 

[RedIvan16]

So what I'm surmising from this thread that a true, blue beer is extremely difficult to pull off. The pH in the beer won't allow the blue color to survive like it would with a mead for instance. Blue corn is out as well.

Purple corn might be a good addition to a lager or something if one wants a different color beer. Would you do a cereal mash prior to a proper mashing or just throw it into the mash with the other grains?

 

[passedpawn]

If I was in your position, I'd first confirm that a tea of just Clitoria and water made the transition at pH4, with fairly big additions of lemon juice/vinegar to start with. Then I'd investigate whether the transition happened over a fairly narrow range of pH's or whether it went suddenly, using small additions of acid/base. Then I'd see whether the pH was the same in beer - there may be other factors in beer that mess with the transition and "pull" it to a different pH.

If the magic pH is around 4 then that could get interesting as a way of detecting whether your beer was in condition or had started to turn to vinegar!

I did that test (with lemon juice) but didn't measure pH. I'll probably redo and measure pH one of these nights.

 

[Grod1]

It would be cool to see if (dry)hops alone will change the acid enough to change the color. I should have my clitoria in a few days and will do some experiments before using them in a beer.
but as far as the beer goes im going to brew this recipe
35.5% white wheat
23.5% rice syrup solids
23.5% pilsen liquid malt extract
17.5% cane sugar
1/2 cucumber per 5 gallons /as much lemon grass as i can cut( maybe 4-8oz) both these are alkaline and will be split between flame out/primary.
Calcium Chloride, up to 1 teaspoon per 5 gallons before the boil to help the color of the clit.
i cant to a pilsner because i will have to many off flavors and its going to be to alkaline for a saison. i obviously cant sour it.
what yeast should i use?
also just to throw it out there as an idea ... Lactose!? maybe who knows but that could potentially keep something basic. maybe i should head the nitro cream rout. what do you guys think.

 

[NinjaBear]

Nitro would prevent carbonic acid from generating.