Blonde Lager Recipe idea

[rtstrider]

I'm in the process of building a VERY plain and simple recipe that is a good lawnmower beer. So what I've done is taken the first blonde recipe I brewed, which is very plain, and changed up the hops. The first go around was an all Cascade brew. It tasted like a lite blonde with lime. I also used US-05 on that batch. The main thing on this is there was no head retention, but, I'm not sure what can be added without increasing the body of the beer. This was light bodied which I liked. Here's what I've got so far. I pulled the hop schedule/additions from Biermunchers Centennial blonde

5 Gallon BIAB

9lb 2 row
.5lb Crystal 40L

.2 oz Centennial 60 min
.3 oz Centennial 35 min
.3 oz Cascade 20 min
.3 oz Cascade 5 min

OG 1.049
25 IBU

I'm toying with the idea of using w34/70 and fermenting around 55f or so. Now I would be up for changing the 2 row to Avangard Pilsen (which is what I can get locally) if that will increase the crispness of the brew. I would also be up for adding some dry hops too if that would help with head retention. From what I've read that can help. I'll be putting in this order in a few weeks but wanted time to read/research before finally biting the bullet.

 

[GoeHaarden]

I'm not sure switching to pilsner malt alone would change any bit of "crispness." To me it's just a different flavor. One thing I might do for a more crisp lager is drop the crystal, and use some Munich or Vienna instead.

I've never heard of dry hops adding head retention, and I always thought the oils might impact it differently. Interesting. Would by chance have a link to an article or anything?

 

[rtstrider]

I'm not sure switching to pilsner malt alone would change any bit of "crispness." To me it's just a different flavor. One thing I might do for a more crisp lager is drop the crystal, and use some Munich or Vienna instead.

I've never heard of dry hops adding head retention, and I always thought the oils might impact it differently. Interesting. Would by chance have a link to an article or anything?

Sounds like I may have been a tad off there. http://beersmith.com/blog/2008/06/25/enhancing-beer-head-retention-for-home-brewers/ It was hops and high AAU affecting head retention

 

[rtstrider]

After reading up on the two malts (munich and vienna) I think I'll give vienna a go. Mainly because I'm not big on toasted flavors in the brews. I was going to keep it around the 5% range. So next question do you think the Centennial/Cascade additions would work well with that grain bill or should I look at using noble hops?

 

[GoeHaarden]

I like both malts, just depends on the style really. Vienna is a little less malty in my opinion. It'll probably work better in this instance.

I personally love Centennial, and Cascade is like its weak little brother. However, I don't think I've used them in a lager. Then again, I've never used 2-row in a lager either. I'd say go for it since you're kind of merging a few different styles. Just aim for your target IBUs.

 

[GoeHaarden]

Also, I would probably mash at 150F to help it ferment down and dry out more..

 

[rtstrider]

Yeah after looking at the Briess charts I'm thinking Vienna would work well in this grain bill too. I'll sub out the .5lbs Crystal 40l for .5lbs Vienna. Basically looking for a clean blonde with some hoppiness. Thinking a lager yeast may get me close

 

[GoeHaarden]

IMO, BierMuncher's Centennial Blonde pretty much nails a "clean blonde with some hoppiness." It's pretty good on it's own, and I would recommend trying that first if you haven't. Its a tried and true recipe...You don't need to lager to make a crisp beer.

 

[larbogast]

Did you not want any adjuncts added. Corn, rice?

 

[rtstrider]

Did you not want any adjuncts added. Corn, rice?

Nope no adjuncts. Wanting something clean and not full bodied or malty. I've run into too many of those that are trying to be passed off as blondes. Plus wanted an excuse to play with w34/70 again. Haven't tried biermunchers recipe yet (I brewed the stout back in October and just finished the last one! SO much better with age) I'm more or less learning about the malts, flavors, mouthfeel, etc and making one adjustment at a time to the recipe. I want a better understanding of what does what and why it was added so I can have a better understanding of recipe building. So far I got a feel for carapils, a few hop varieties, and pretty well versed with us-05.

 

[Sadu]

I've been playing around with blonde ales and don't feel that the recipe makes a lot of difference. Process is far more important in low flavour beers. Worry about fresh ingredients, nail your mash temp, pitch well, good temp control, minimise oxygen post fermentation. If you do all that well, you'll get a good beer regardless of what hops and yeast you use.
That said, I prefer noble-style hops over centennial. Liberty, motueka, wai-iti, or actual noble hops.
I'd usually throw in some wheat malt and oats for a bit of body and head but they come out good with Vienna and carapils too.
The one in the fermentor at the moment is a Frankenstein brew with leftover 2-row, pils, lots of munich, carahell, wheat, saaz, wlp001 California ale.
But I don't think recipe matters a lot with these if process is solid. Not like a stout where ingredients like roast barley can easily unbalance things.

 

[rtstrider]

Right but as I learned adding 10% of carapils can set things WAY off balance. Even 5% was too much for me. When I think blonde I think ale version of a lager. Want it very light bodied

 

[couchsending]

Mash rest for 20-30 minutes at 160-162 after your saccharification rest and a minimum of a week lagering will create all the head retention you need.

If using European Pilsner a 15 minute rest to start at 130 will help too.

If you want a nice golden hue just blend some Pale malt with 2 Row or Pilsner, 20-30%. Maybe 2-3% Carahell or C10 and that’s it.

Rice especially will give you a very crisp/dry beer and has virtually no flavor impact. Corn well can taste like corn but it’ll dry things out for sure.

If you want body just mash higher for a higher FG, just need to adjust IBUs slightly.

Adding some NaCl will help with the perception of fullness as well.

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Mash rest for 20-30 minutes at 160-162 after your saccharification rest and a minimum of a week lagering will create all the head retention you need.

I was just about to suggest this. A rest at 72C (162F) will aid head retention greatly.

Don't waste your time with Carapils. It is greatly overrated as a foam enhancer.

I use 10% Vienna in my Munich Helles. Lends great flavor while keeping it pale and light. If you are hesitant, just go with 5% Vienna and drop the Crystal.

If you want to keep some crystal, use Carahell. It is my go-to caramalt on all light-colored beers.

 

[rtstrider]

I was just about to suggest this. A rest at 72C (162F) will aid head retention greatly.

Don't waste your time with Carapils. It is greatly overrated as a foam enhancer.

I use 10% Vienna in my Munich Helles. Lends great flavor while keeping it pale and light. If you are hesitant, just go with 5% Vienna and drop the Crystal.

If you want to keep some crystal, use Carahell. It is my go-to caramalt on all light-colored beers.

Sweet! I'll just go 95% 2 row and 5% Vienna. Now it may sound weird but I'm not wanting much body on this at all. I want something very light bodied and easy drinking (think becks, peroni, pbr, rolling rock (minus the DMS), etc) but with American hops (non-noble). I know this is a mashup of two styles but that's mainly what I'm trying to accomplish here. Edit: I read above and saw the suggested mash times of 150F for 60 min and 162F for 20-30 min

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Sweet! I'll just go 95% 2 row and 5% Vienna. Now it may sound weird but I'm not wanting much body on this at all. I want something very light bodied and easy drinking (think becks, peroni, pbr, rolling rock (minus the DMS), etc) but with American hops (non-noble). I know this is a mashup of two styles but that's mainly what I'm trying to accomplish here. Edit: I read above and saw the suggested mash times of 150F for 60 min and 162F for 20-30 min

You may not even notice the Vienna at 5%, but it will probably come out like you are looking for - light and refreshing. Hell, I made a "crowd pleaser" golden ale for a wedding last year with 25% Vienna and it was delicious.

But yeah, the small (5-10%) amount of Vienna will give just enough interesting flavor to your beer to keep it from being plain boring 100% pale malt, while not really adding much in the way of body.
DOn't forget the 162F mash rest (if you can) for foam!
Good luck - report back how it turned out, please.

 

[rtstrider]

You may not even notice the Vienna at 5%, but it will probably come out like you are looking for - light and refreshing. Hell, I made a "crowd pleaser" golden ale for a wedding last year with 25% Vienna and it was delicious.

But yeah, the small (5-10%) amount of Vienna will give just enough interesting flavor to your beer to keep it from being plain boring 100% pale malt, while not really adding much in the way of body.
DOn't forget the 162F mash rest (if you can) for foam!
Good luck - report back how it turned out, please.

Will do! I've got a Bells Two Hearted Clone (stepped up yeast from Oberon bottles) that's been fermenting since Sunday. It's still going STRONG! So it'll be at least another week or two before the primary is freed up for this batch

 

[Northern_Brewer]

I'm in the process of building a VERY plain and simple recipe that is a good lawnmower beer.

I'm toying with the idea of using w34/70 and fermenting around 55f or so. Now I would be up for changing the 2 row to Avangard Pilsen (which is what I can get locally) if that will increase the crispness of the brew.

Forget 34/70, use one of the Californian lager yeast like Mangrove Jack M54 - they drop better, are (even) more forgiving of temperature and a better fit for the hybrid nature of this beer.

If you want crispness and less body, then adjuncts are probably the way to go, as has been mentioned.

If you want head, then that implies proteins, perhaps a splash of wheat? Mind you, if harvest reports are right, protein is not going to be a problem in this year's barley!

Centennial versus noble comes down to personal taste, there's no "right" answer. Instead of the true noble hops, varieties like Mt Hood would be quite appropriate to the unpretentious vibe of this beer?

 

[rtstrider]

Forget 34/70, use one of the Californian lager yeast like Mangrove Jack M54 - they drop better, are (even) more forgiving of temperature and a better fit for the hybrid nature of this beer.

If you want crispness and less body, then adjuncts are probably the way to go, as has been mentioned.

If you want head, then that implies proteins, perhaps a splash of wheat? Mind you, if harvest reports are right, protein is not going to be a problem in this year's barley!

Centennial versus noble comes down to personal taste, there's no "right" answer. Instead of the true noble hops, varieties like Mt Hood would be quite appropriate to the unpretentious vibe of this beer?

I already picked up a packet of w34/70 and will be building a starter (I know I know it's dry yeast but they charge $7 for this yeast at the LHBS). I'm going to overbuild, save a bit for another batch, and pitch the rest. I've been reading brulosophy's fast ferment article http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/ and have the means of temp control (inkbird and a fermentation fridge) so figured why not? Anywho per the LHBS owner recommendation I'll be upping the Vienna to 10%. The yeast will be going on the stir plate this Saturday night and when it's all said and done should end up around 460 billion cells which should be more than adequate for this brew per brewers friends yeast calculator. Only change is I will not be "lagering" this brew until the bottles are carbed up.

 

[rtstrider]

Brewed this Friday night (8/31) and didn't get finished until midnight. Put the fermenter in the fermentation fridge and set the temp to 50F. Waited till the morning to pitch the yeast which was a good 8 hours or so. Yeast pitch rate was 490 billion cells and we have activity. It was a tad sluggish starting up but that was expected at these low temps. Anywho I NAILED the numbers with an OG of 1.049. Just took a reading and it's now at 1.040. Going to wait till it's just below 1.025 to start ramping up the temps as shown on the Brulosophy fast lager site. Fingers crossed!

 

[Hopalong]

34/70 is a good choice.
OK, you have chosen a saccharification rest probably in the 150F range and maybe another saccharification rest at 162F, range of Alpha II.
Where did the conversion rest go?
When conversion doesn't occur the types of complex sugar that make ale and lager aren't formed and when that happens secondary fermentation isn't needed and two weeks are shaved off the brewing process. If the recipe called out high modified malt, single infusion, only primary fermentation and priming with sugar or injection with CO2 for carbonation, the beer is similar to Prohibition style beer.
Brulostofers experiments are based on Prohibition style beer containing wort loaded with simple sugar, glucose which is released by Alpha during saccharification. The wort lacks complex sugar, maltose and maltotriose. Fast lagering doesn't work with complex sugar due to what yeast does with the sugar.
When lager yeast is cranked up in temperature it rips through glucose quicker which gets the beer in a bottle quicker. If a diacetyl rest is the reason behind increasing temperature the beer will need to be krausened because yeast takes a beating during the high temperature.
The off flavors associated with homebrew are caused by high fermentation temperature and chemical, nutrient and sugar imbalanced wort inherent with single infusion. Add in senile, remanufactured yeast removed from a previous imbalanced fermentation cycle and off flavors become more interesting.

 

[rtstrider]

34/70 is a good choice.
OK, you have chosen a saccharification rest probably in the 150F range and maybe another saccharification rest at 162F, range of Alpha II.
Where did the conversion rest go?
When conversion doesn't occur the types of complex sugar that make ale and lager aren't formed and when that happens secondary fermentation isn't needed and two weeks are shaved off the brewing process. If the recipe called out high modified malt, single infusion, only primary fermentation and priming with sugar or injection with CO2 for carbonation, the beer is similar to Prohibition style beer.
Brulostofers experiments are based on Prohibition style beer containing wort loaded with simple sugar, glucose which is released by Alpha during saccharification. The wort lacks complex sugar, maltose and maltotriose. Fast lagering doesn't work with complex sugar due to what yeast does with the sugar.
When lager yeast is cranked up in temperature it rips through glucose quicker which gets the beer in a bottle quicker. If a diacetyl rest is the reason behind increasing temperature the beer will need to be krausened because yeast takes a beating during the high temperature.
The off flavors associated with homebrew are caused by high fermentation temperature and chemical, nutrient and sugar imbalanced wort inherent with single infusion. Add in senile, remanufactured yeast removed from a previous imbalanced fermentation cycle and off flavors become more interesting.

I ended up doing a single infusion mash at 150f for 1 hour and didn't rest at 160f. May just let it ride out at 53f till it's time for the D-rest if that's the case. Want to do it right

 

[rtstrider]

34/70 is a good choice.
OK, you have chosen a saccharification rest probably in the 150F range and maybe another saccharification rest at 162F, range of Alpha II.
Where did the conversion rest go?
When conversion doesn't occur the types of complex sugar that make ale and lager aren't formed and when that happens secondary fermentation isn't needed and two weeks are shaved off the brewing process. If the recipe called out high modified malt, single infusion, only primary fermentation and priming with sugar or injection with CO2 for carbonation, the beer is similar to Prohibition style beer.
Brulostofers experiments are based on Prohibition style beer containing wort loaded with simple sugar, glucose which is released by Alpha during saccharification. The wort lacks complex sugar, maltose and maltotriose. Fast lagering doesn't work with complex sugar due to what yeast does with the sugar.
When lager yeast is cranked up in temperature it rips through glucose quicker which gets the beer in a bottle quicker. If a diacetyl rest is the reason behind increasing temperature the beer will need to be krausened because yeast takes a beating during the high temperature.
The off flavors associated with homebrew are caused by high fermentation temperature and chemical, nutrient and sugar imbalanced wort inherent with single infusion. Add in senile, remanufactured yeast removed from a previous imbalanced fermentation cycle and off flavors become more interesting.

I'm looking at Palmers site and not seeing the conversion rest via http://howtobrew.com/book/section-3/how-the-mash-works/mashing-defined so my question is how would you mash/step mash? I'm completley new to lagering so wanting to read up on it

 

[rtstrider]

Just took a gravity reading and I'm now sitting at 1.008. The fg should be 1.007 so may be too late but I'm shooting for a diacetyl rest anywho. Just bumped the fermenter up from 53 to 66. Going to let it free rise and check it again this weekend. Holy cow though! That's MUCH faster than I was expecting at lager temps!

 

[Cavpilot2000]

34/70 is a workhorse.

 

[couchsending]

Just thought I’d chime in. Just brewed a very traditional single decoction German Pils with the liquid form of 34/70. Aimed for a pitch rate of 2.25m/ml/*plato. Pitched at 44, max ferm temp was 47.5 and I transferred with .04 to go to spund and kept the keg at 47 for a week and slowly stepped down to 40 where it’ll stay for two weeks before slowly stepping to 31 for another month or so.

Zero diacetyl or acetaldehyde evedent in the first sample taken at 40*.

If you pitch enough healthy yeast you don’t need the diacetyl rest. Lager yeast has the ability to clean up after itself even below 40.

 

[rtstrider]

Just took another gravity sample and I'm down to 1.005 from 1.049. This puts me around 5.85 abv. I was only shooting for 5.5 abv lol So it's over attenuated just a tad which is fine by me. btw I'm doing the SLOW ramp up. Set the temp to 58F for 12 hours now it's at 63F for 12 hours and tonight I'll step it up to 68F and leave it a few days. There is a TON of yeast in suspension for this brew. I may just have to cold crash this a few days after fermentation is complete. So far this is a very hop forward brew but I'm sure it'll mellow out with time/lagering

 

[Cavpilot2000]

Just took another gravity sample and I'm down to 1.005 from 1.049. This puts me around 5.85 abv. I was only shooting for 5.5 abv lol So it's over attenuated just a tad which is fine by me. btw I'm doing the SLOW ramp up. Set the temp to 58F for 12 hours now it's at 63F for 12 hours and tonight I'll step it up to 68F and leave it a few days. There is a TON of yeast in suspension for this brew. I may just have to cold crash this a few days after fermentation is complete. So far this is a very hop forward brew but I'm sure it'll mellow out with time/lagering

Man, what kind of mash schedule did you use? And are you sure your hydrometer is calibrated (and are you adjusting for temp)?
I’ve never had or even seen a beer go as low as 1.005. That’s incredibly dry - probably too much so.

 

[rtstrider]

I'll double check the refractometer calibration with ro water but I'm pretty sure it's calibrated. Now you have me wondering...

 

[Fly_Guy]

Man, what kind of mash schedule did you use? And are you sure your hydrometer is calibrated (and are you adjusting for temp)?
I’ve never had or even seen a beer go as low as 1.005. That’s incredibly dry - probably too much so.

With his grain bill and a lower mash temp, (150F) all his sugars should be incredibly easy for the yeast to eat. On top of that, he had his temps super controlled and built a starter - with the healthy pitch count and healthy yeast these numbers are very possible. It will be dry, but that was his intention and it's not necessarily a bad thing at.

It's a specialty beer but look up brut ipas, people have those finish under 1.000 and that is an awesome beer when done right.

 

[rtstrider]

Just bumped the temp up to 68F and going to leave it there a few days. Going to taste test/sample the gravity again tomorrow.

 

[Fly_Guy]

The attenuation rate on w34/70 is 83%. If you predicted an FG of 1.007 and measured an FG of 1.005 there's a good chance it's a result of having extremely happy yeast in a very favorable environment.
It's always good to check accuracy of instruments, but to me that's a pretty small difference.

 

[ba-brewer]

I'll double check the refractometer calibration with ro water but I'm pretty sure it's calibrated. Now you have me wondering...

Which calculator did you use to adjust for alcohol?

The sean Terrill calculaotr seems to be better above 1.010 and the beersmith one seems better when gravity get bellows 1.010. The calculation are pretty close but I mostly just use the refractometer values to tell when the gravity stabilizes and do a final measurement with a hydrometer.

 

[rtstrider]

Which calculator did you use to adjust for alcohol?

The sean Terrill calculaotr seems to be better above 1.010 and the beersmith one seems better when gravity get bellows 1.010. The calculation are pretty close but I mostly just use the refractometer values to tell when the gravity stabilizes and do a final measurement with a hydrometer.

I'm using the northern brewer and brewers friend calculators

 

[ba-brewer]

Never used either of those calculators, but the brewers friend does have a wort correction factor option so that should help get the estimate a bit closer.

 

[Blackdirt_cowboy]

Brewers friend calculator is always dead on when I check it against my hydrometer.

 

[rtstrider]

Sampled last night around 10pm and the yeast still had some cleaning up to do. Tried it around 10am today and it's much cleaner. Going to let it ride at 68F till tomorrow night then going to slowly start the ramp down to 30F unless that's way to cold

 

[ba-brewer]

30 might cause some freezing, anywhere between 35 and 40 should be good enough. I had lagered some beers at 42F(serving temp) with good results.

 

[rtstrider]

It's still stable at 1.007. looks like I misread the refractometer earlier. Original brix was 12.2 and final brix is 5.8 so nailed it. Now the esters have gone way down (had a banana flavor almost typical of a weizen) and are non existent. Had some sulfur notes yesterday and now those have disappeared. The samples are getting more clear with each day due to yeast floccing. Going to give the yeast just a few more days at room temp to clean up.

 

[rtstrider]

Been doing the 5f per 12 hour ramp down per brulosophys quick lager. Beer was at 47f this morning so I fined with gelatin and just stepped it down to 42f. Never used gelatin like this before. Usually the beer was 32f or so and it did nothing so figured I'd give it one more try and maybe third time's a charm? Have to say I can't stand the w34/70 30 yeast flavor. But it's gone away now that the beer temps are dropping. I've noticed it right away in the new Sierra Nevada Oktoberfest too. Hate it! Going to try lagering that in the fridge for a few weeks to see if that flavor goes away