Blichmann Burner and Low Pressure Propane

[ssgross]

Looking good. to answer a previous post, the blichmann burners have about 4 inches above the face of the burners to the kettle. I'm not entirely convinced that the #51 orifice is optimal for the Blichmann burner. I can confirm that it works. no soot, and about an hour to take 10 gal from 50f to boiling. i tried 3 other sizes, and like this one the best. The largest was the orifice valve from brewers hardware. it was satisfactory with the damper fully open and the valve only 1/4 open. This made the flames lazy, and no where near the same heat output.

 

[herc1354]

Thanks again for the help, I'm defiantly going in the right direction, I feel that once I remove some plumbing the #51 orifice will work better for my system too. My regulator is at the end of the gas rail, I'm going to move it to the middle and shorten the piping runs to the burners, then I feel that the smaller orifice will do better. Again thanks for all the help, this is the first time I can say that I've made forward progress towards better heat output.

 

[herc1354]

So I brewed this weekend, while I've not achieved the same results as the OP the performance of the burners is better, 12 gallons of 50 degree water to 150 in 45 min, not too bad.

I've made a decision, right or wrong, to ditch the BG-14 burners for 8" jet burners, I feel the BG 14 burner is way too big for the amount of LP I'm pushing. I can get a jet burner for about $30.00, hell with all the trips to lowes and the countless brass fittings to fit a 5/8 line to a 3/8 orifice I could have purchased two jet burners. Jet burners are designed for low pressure LP, really I don't think the banjo burners are.

 

[Gartywood]

According to tejas smokers they recommend a size 42 for the blichmann burner. I ordered one and asked them to drill it that way, but I don't think they drilled it out because the flame was very weak with the valve opened all the way. It actually would not boil 8.5 gallons whereas despite flame stability issues the supposedly smaller orifice from brewers hardware boiled with no problem. borrowing drills from one of my techs and I will try size 42 and report back.

 

[ssgross]

was their recommendation for low pressure or high pressure? Also, what size line do you have going to the burner?

 

[BennyHaha]

ssgross, thank you SO much for the help, while I'm not quite getting the results you are I'm moving in the right direction, this is what I've accomplished...

Adapted the orifice to accept 5/8" plumbing, however from the Honeywell valve to the burner is about 60" of plumbing, so really to get the most out if this system I need to shorten the LP supply lines.

I've mounted my regulator directly to the gas rail.

Currently the larger orifice seems to give me the highest flame, although with yellow tips, while the smaller orifice does not seem to do so well. I think with shorter LP lines I'll be able to use the smaller orifice and achieve the best BTU performance. The attached photo shows why I have such long gas lines, I wanted on/off valves as well as I needed the cross beams to mount the gas pipe to. View attachment 177389

Herc - one other thing you could try is raising the height of your burners. I run my bg14's at 3.5" below flat bottom kettles.

 

[Gartywood]

was their recommendation for low pressure or high pressure? Also, what size line do you have going to the burner?

I have a 12 foot 3/8 id hose from a "Gas Plug" brand gas quick connect on my house running 11" water column propane (the pressure that runs normal household appliances.

The Texas smokers orifice wasn't drilled out as specified and I drilled it out, unfortunately I broke the valve and orifice when I reinstalled it. I made a eureka moment though.

Big yellow smoky flames mean that there is not enough air coming through the air shutter. While it was disassembled I realized that the air inlet under the damper is much bigger. I decided to try the burner without the damper installed with the Brewers hardware orifice, it runs very well. Wind produces a little yellow flame and sooting but it gets back under control pretty easily. I'll be adding a needle valve to the Brewers hardware orifice and can handle a little sooting.

Not sure no damper is the right long term solution. Will be bringing the damper into my shop to enlarge the openings.

 

[Gartywood]

tl;dr if you have yellow flames and sooting try removing the damper to get more air to the burner.

 

[pdxwarrior]

Hey, I'm not sure if any of the original posters are even members, but thought I'd ask the group. I'm in the process of building a new brewing setup and want to be able to run two burners off of one tank. In time, I'll eventually tie in some burner controllers, but for now it'll be manual still.

Anyway, I'm curious about gas management and making sure I get good gas/heat management. I've built a 1/2" manifold that is about 3.5 ft long. To describe, this the propane tank will connect to one end. About 18" down there is a T-connector where the first burner will connect. Down another 24" is a 90 degree turn that has another connection for the second burner.
The first burner will be a TopTier Blichmann burner. The second will be a Hellfire Blichmann burner.

Reading over this thread got me thinking about gas distribution. My original thought was to connect a hose (typical BBQ hose) from the propane tank to the end of the manifold, using a 3/8" flare connector. Then I would just use 3/8" hoses to go from the ports on the manifold to the burners. After reading, I am thinking this will not be efficient at all.

Then I figured I could get a larger more capable regulator (support 200,000BTU) and connect that to the manifold. That might work. However, then have concerns over how that gets distributed to the burners and if that's too much flow, etc.

So my current thought now is this. (Please refer to the attached image for more details)
View attachment 629151
Get an RV style hose that has the tool-less ACME connector on one end and a 1/4" male connector on the other end. Use this to connect the tank directly to the manifold (#1). There not be a regulator installed here. However, I have tested the manifold and it holds 14 PSI with no issues - so I think that'll be good. Next I can use adapters to convert the T-connectors from 1/2" down to 1/4" and attach 1/4" to Propane ACME adapters. That would allow me to then connect the original hoses (#2 and #3) from the Blichmann burners (using their regulators) directly to the manifold. This should regulate the pressures based on their regulators/specs.

In my mind, this makes sense. For the most part I would have 1/2" connections all the way up to the regulators (with the exception of a couple stepdowns for the 1/4" connectors. The hoses themselves are the standard 3/8" OD.

These might be dumb questions, but I'm new to the gas idea and BTU utilization, blah blah blah.
Thoughts?

 

[pdxwarrior]

Hey, I'm not sure if any of the original posters are even members, but thought I'd ask the group. I'm in the process of building a new brewing setup and want to be able to run two burners off of one tank. In time, I'll eventually tie in some burner controllers, but for now it'll be manual still.

Anyway, I'm curious about gas management and making sure I get good gas/heat management. I've built a 1/2" manifold that is about 3.5 ft long. To describe, this the propane tank will connect to one end. About 18" down there is a T-connector where the first burner will connect. Down another 24" is a 90 degree turn that has another connection for the second burner.
The first burner will be a TopTier Blichmann burner. The second will be a Hellfire Blichmann burner.

Reading over this thread got me thinking about gas distribution. My original thought was to connect a hose (typical BBQ hose) from the propane tank to the end of the manifold, using a 3/8" flare connector. Then I would just use 3/8" hoses to go from the ports on the manifold to the burners. After reading, I am thinking this will not be efficient at all.

Then I figured I could get a larger more capable regulator (support 200,000BTU) and connect that to the manifold. That might work. However, then have concerns over how that gets distributed to the burners and if that's too much flow, etc.

So my current thought now is this. (Please refer to the attached image for more details)

Get an RV style hose that has the tool-less ACME connector on one end and a 1/4" male connector on the other end. Use this to connect the tank directly to the manifold (#1). There not be a regulator installed here. However, I have tested the manifold and it holds 14 PSI with no issues - so I think that'll be good. Next I can use adapters to convert the T-connectors from 1/2" down to 1/4" and attach 1/4" to Propane ACME adapters. That would allow me to then connect the original hoses (#2 and #3) from the Blichmann burners (using their regulators) directly to the manifold. This should regulate the pressures based on their regulators/specs.

In my mind, this makes sense. For the most part I would have 1/2" connections all the way up to the regulators (with the exception of a couple stepdowns for the 1/4" connectors. The hoses themselves are the standard 3/8" OD.

These might be dumb questions, but I'm new to the gas idea and BTU utilization, blah blah blah.

Thoughts?

 

[pdxwarrior]

Didn't mean to post twice, browser was giving errors.

 

[pdxwarrior]

I've been doing a little more reading. It looks like there are some pretty high pressures coming directly off of the propane tank itself. As such, I think I'll change up the idea a bit here.

Between tank and manifold - I'm going to see about getting a 200,000 BTU regulator with 1/4" or 1/2" connection and a Green Acme connector.

Coming off the burner connections - I will adapt from the 1/2" T-connector to a 1/4" connector and then back to an Acme adapter so I can tie in the original hoses/regulators that came with the burners.

My thinking is that the 200k BTU regulator will help manage the pressure inside the manifold itself and should be able to provide more than the burners will use. Then the original hoses/regulators will let me control the flame/gas better for each burner.

The only remaining question is, do I install a shutdown/ball valve at each burner connection so that I can shut off the gas when not using a particular burner...

 

[day_trippr]

fwiw, I have a similar configuration, though both of my burners are Floor Burners. I used the supplied regulators as secondary regulators, and drive the manifold using a POL style high volume adjustable regulator at the cylinder, with a long hose to a conventional air pressure disconnect.

This shows the basic layout. I wouldn't recommend totally hard piping - it worked out for me but it was a challenge that two short flex couplings from the regulators to the burners would have much more easily solved.

Crappy picture but it shows the gas plumbing mounted on my rig...

Cheers!

 

[pdxwarrior]

Hey day_tripper - Thanks for the pictures, this was very helpful! I agree, trying to line up everything using solid tubing would add a whole other level of frustration! I referenced your stuff and talked with a local propane/bbq place. I modified what I had.. now I've got the regulator at the tank and then two needle valves coming off the main line (1/2" pipe) which then goes into flex hose to the burners. I'll get some more pictures together once I finish everything, but it's coming together nicely so far. (The plate chiller in the corner is just sitting there, I have since mounted it)