Blichmann Burner and Low Pressure Propane

[ssgross]

The question has been asked in other threads, but not fully answered.

The orifice: and orifice drilled at #51 seems to produce the cleanest flame. It tried #49 and wasn't pleased. Both of these were tried without any type of valve, other than a shutoff valve mounted by the tank just after the regulator. My hoses are standard 3/8" hoses I bought at Lowes, along with an 11" WC regulator, also at Lowes. I bought orifices for about $7 from tejas smokers, custom drilled to any hole size you want. Lots of different types of fittings are available.

I should also note that I have also had success with the .081 orifice valve at brewers hardware. http://www.brewershardware.com/Valve-and-LPG-Orifice-for-BURN10.html
It works only with the damper all the way open, and the valve only 1/4 open. I didn't like this setup because. I didn't like this because the flames turn yellow with even the slightest air movement under the pot. The effect of moving air is less with the #51.

I am thinking of trying a needle valve with the #51 orifice, which brings me to my second point. Using the .081 orifice valve, it took 1.75 hours to heat 15 gallons from 51F-166F. Then UPS stopped by with the #51. It took almost 2 hours to bring 12 gallons to boil and, even then, it wasn't able to achieve the nice roaring boil I was used to. I think this is very, very poor performance.

Take a look at the data on Blichmanns website for heating times of their burner.
http://www.blichmannengineering.com/products/toptier-brew-stand-and-burners
They report a "15% derate" with natural gas at 6" WC.
In any event, my performance with low pressure propane is over 4 times longer than when using the orifice and regulator it came with.

I would appreciate if anyone out there using low pressure burners can chime in with their performance data.

My rig is automated with honeywell valves and intermittant spark ignitors. If I want better performance, I can either buy different burners, or somehow wire a solenoid valve to the honeywell control (not the 2 stage valve, the little black box that makes the spark).

I am leaning towards retiring my blichmann burners to ebay and going a different route. Any ideas are welcomed. a picture is attached.

before anyone freaks out about the wood brewstand and propane burners - they sit on felt pad + mdf + ceramic tile. it was 40 degrees in my garage halfway in to a full boil with the burners on high pressure. temp on top of the tile directly under the burner was 406F. the temp on top of the tile at the perimeter was 116F. The temp on the wood surface (covered in latex based clear wood finish, cabot I think) closest to the burner is 92F. Temp on the underside of the tile (top of mdf) is 80F. The temp under the MDF, directly under the burner, is a cool 60F.

 

[herc1354]

I too am having similar issues, I'm using the same banjo style burners found on your set up, I am also using the #81 valve and also notice yellow tips when any kind of wind interferes with the flame. My theory is that, one while we may be regulating down to 11"WC the volume my not be enough to produce the required amount of BTUs to achieve a really nice rolling boil and two these burners were originally designed to work with high pressure LP.

Look at your regulator POL fitting and you will probably have a rather small ID feeding the low pressure regulator, try and get a higher flowing POL for your regulator to see if that helps, I'm considering purchasing a duel regulator in hops of better performance. Also I'm considering switching to jet burner for compassion as they are true low pressure burners.

Really if I can't figure this out I'll probably convert to full electric, the gas setup is costing me a ton for about the same I could have electric brewing in the comfort of my home and not the barn where I'm at now with LP.

 

[ssgross]

the 11"WC regulator from lowes is 2-stage.
After a quick google, I was looking at acme fittings at
http://www.tejassmokers.com/products/brassfittings.htm
My regulator has the black one and 1/4" NPT outlet. More reading required before I try something that says "not for use with low pressure".

 

[herc1354]

http://www.tejassmokers.com/lowpressureregulators.htm

Look at part number GR9448 from he above site, this is what I was referring too, the first regulator regulates the bottle pressure to 10-11psi which allows the low pressure regulator to smoothly regulate to 11"WC. Also I feel the regulator output shield be at least 3/8" not 1/4". I'm feeding a 1/2" LP manifold that feeds a honeywell gas valve so you see how a 1/4" feeder hose is too small. Also note that the regulator I'm speaking of has a high flow soft nose POL fitting as well as a 1/2" outlet. The cost is a bit high and the 1/2" hose is $45.00...think I'll give it a go.

 

[ssgross]

I mispoke. My regulator has 3/8 outlet. It is
http://www.lowes.com/pd_361428-743-327493_0__?productId=3654280
the description says rated up to 200000 BTU, the same as the regulator you mentioned at tejassmokers. So, I assume mine has the "full flow" POL fitting.
I don't want to drop a ton of lute up front, so I will troubleshoot in the following order.
1. check the pressure coming out of my regulator. it has a black plastic piece that I assume is for manual adjustment like the tejassmokers one. i noticed the pilot flame is a lazy yellow after a few minutes (after all oxygen is purged from the line perhaps). the manual indicates this might be low pressure. if the regulator puts out less than the 11" wc the honywell valve tries to maintain, this could be part of the problem.
2. The hoses I use are the basic black ones. 3/8 npt at one end, 3/8 female flare at the other. I am almost certain they are not 3/8id. The pluming on the rig to the valves is 1/2" black pipe. I think supply line is cheaper than the rubber hoses on tejassmokers. I might go that route after re-plumbing the black pipe so only short runs of flex hose are needed.
3. swap out my regulator for the pricy one on tejassmokers that has a 1/2" outlet.


what size hoses do you currently use? what is the outlet on your regulator and what does your plumbing look like?...and that just made me chuckle.

 

[herc1354]

The honeywell valve on my setup has an adjustment for the Pilot, yours should too, if so a quick adjustment will take care of the lazy flame issue.

Although the hose on my regulator is a 3/8" connection the ID is NOT, like you my brew stand has 1/2" gas pipe that connects to a Honeywell valve which is controlled by an intermittent pilot controller.

I'm all about troubleshooting since I really do not want to drop $80.00 plus on a regulator and hose. This is what I have noticed on my system.
1- when the honeywell valve opens and the burner lights I do receive a good flame, however it is a bit bouncy with small yellow tips, the orifice I installed in the burners was purchased form the home brew site you previously mentioned, brewers hardware, this burner is furthest from the Gas tank. Like your system any wind creates VERY lazy yellow flames, but stable most of the time.

2- The second burner on my system, the one closest to the LP tank, is very stable. I seem to be able to achieve a boil in reasonable time but really not as vigorous as one would think. The burners are set about 4" from the bottom of each kettle.

Also for the orifice I chose to use the air shutter Must be fully open or I get incomplete combustion, lazy yellow tips. Perhaps a smaller orifice and better regulator is in my future, however I look forward to your findings.

 

[herc1354]

After reading Tejas site they list a #61 orifice for high pressure propane and you stated that you used a much smaller one, perhaps I misread. Don't forget low pressure propane should require a much larger orifice to work.

 

[ssgross]

yes. #61 is smaller than the #51 that works for blichmann burners at low pressure, and much smaller than the .081in which is a #46. smaller numbers = bigger opening.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drill_bit_sizes

i have played with the pilot adjustment and it doesnt solve the issue. it makes the lazy yellow flame bigger, or kills the pilot.
my burners are both equidistant from the tank. I have a tee on the regulator, then shutoff valves, then black hose to the 1/2 pipe on the stand.

 

[herc1354]

Oh cool, thanks for clearing that up, check that out I learned something new. So since adjusting the pilot does not work perhaps the wrong orifice is installed in the pilot burner?

 

[ssgross]

i triple checked the orifice as well. good thought. the funny thing is it is perfect initially. the burner lights and I notice a slight drop in its strength, but still clear blue. after a few minutes its yellow and lazy.

 

[herc1354]

Yeah come to think of it mine does the same. Currently unless I have my pilot adjusted to the point that it sounds kind of like a small blow torch, very fast blue flame, the valve shuts off...must not be hot enough to keep the pilot valve open. I'm just really stuck on gas supply for my issues.

Another part of me wants to grab a 10 to 20 tip jet burner and see if that works, after all that's what Lonny Mac used on his original Brutus 10 system. Perhaps these BG-14 burners are just ill suited for what we are using them for?

 

[ssgross]

you have me convinced it is a volume issue. my blichmann burners are suposedly 72000btu with a 15% drop for natural gas, which is delivered in the burner under much lower pressure. mr. google says 50gal propane water heaters are roughly 40000 BTU. the supply hoses for these are 1/2" ID or bigger. I can drain my 50gal water heater, fill with the consistent 50F water from my well, and have enough 120F water for my shower in < 2 hours. but my blichmann burner can't boil 168 - 212 in that time?

your report that the first burner works better than the second, in my mind, seems to confirm that it is an issue of volume - so does the lazy pilot after the main valve opening. as the burner warms, there will be a draft that pulls more fuel into the burner, leaving less to go through the pilot valve.

I wonder if the tejassmokers guy, or some other more expert than I, could confirm this.

 

[herc1354]

Funny I was thinking of giving someone a shout that knows propane too. My plan is to get the regulator I spoke of earlier, hopefully that will work...

 

[ssgross]

AHA! This is definitly a supply volume problem. Check out the chart at
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/gasconnectors.html#BTUS

the cheap black hose is 3/8od and 1/4id or less. I'm using 2 - one from tank to stand, another from honeywell to burner. I think they are 60'' hoses. so, with 2 of them that is less than 30,000 BTU/hr to the burner.

In my link above to my lowes regulator, it says it is capable of 200,000BTU/hr, which is more than enough for both burners. However, black acme nut is only rated at 70000BTU/hr - close to enough for one burner, but not 2.

right now my setup goes tank - black acme nut attached to a gauge - pol that came with regulator - then the regulator - 3/8" tee - 3/8" ball valve - black hose - 3/8" male flare on the 1/2"id black pipe, on to the honeywell, then same black hose to the burner.

here is what I propose.
ditch the acme nut, or replace it with the green one that came with the blicmann burner. the green one is rated at 200000 btu. I would appreciate some feedback on this, since many places specifically say "only for high pressure". Lemme check if this improves things tonight.

if this isn't a significant improvement, I will replace the plumbing from the tank to the black pip on the rig with 1/2"id flex metal tube. this is way cheaper than the hoses we saw on tejasmokers. a cheap source is
http://www.plumbingsupply.com/gasconnectors.html
you can also find 48" in a kit with some fittings and sealant at lowes for $34.00

if still no improvement, I will replace the hose from the honeywell to the burners with 3/8 id flex, from the same link above. Last effort is replacing the regulator.

This should do it. I will post back some picks as I work on it.

 

[ssgross]

funny thing now that I remember. when I was testing orifices, I was using only one length of 60" hose after the regulator, and wasn't impressed with the flame. according to the chart, this was because I was getting < 40,000btu/hr.
so, i'm convinced now that size does matter

 

[herc1354]

Just so I've got it right, and I think I do, the size if the hose from the regulator to the main gas line needs to be larger, not to mention proper orifice sizing as well as a regulator that can handle the volume of LP consumed by the large BG-14 burners, correct?

 

[herc1354]

Thought I'd post a photo of one of my burners lit, this is in low light conditions so the flame shoes a bit red-orange, also I've moved both burners up since this photo was snapped. The burner showmen is the one closest to the bottle, the hose from the regulator is 4-5ft long and the air shutter is wide open.

 

[ssgross]

is that a black hose connecting your tank to the rig? what is the id of the flex hose?

i've seen that flame before when testing orifices. my first go was to drill out the one that came with the burner with standard bits. 1/16 was too small. next size i had was 5/64. this was too big, and produced a similar flame, but not as tall (probably because of lesser volume). the .081 orifice valve from brewers hardware produces a flame almost exactly like yours when the valve is fully open.

 

[herc1354]

is that a black hose connecting your tank to the rig? what is the id of the flex hose?

i've seen that flame before when testing orifices. my first go was to drill out the one that came with the burner with standard bits. 1/16 was too small. next size i had was 5/64. this was too big, and produced a similar flame, but not as tall (probably because of lesser volume). the .081 orifice valve from brewers hardware produces a flame almost exactly like yours when the valve is fully open.

Valve is full open, air shutter is full open, orifice is from brewers hardware. Yes the black hose is coming from the regulator on the tank to the 1/2" manifold, while the fittings are 3/8 I doubt the ID is.

Have you taken a look at the jet burners that Lonny Mac used on the brutus ten, he used the 10 tip 8" burners, these burners are designed for low pressure LP, also his plans call for a low pressure regulator. Most people will feed jet burners with a high pressure regulator to get insane heat output, regardless they work with low pressure LP. I feel people such as us who have the banjo burners operating in low pressure LP need a higher volume regulator and supply line or need to switch to the 8" 10 tip jet burners.

While this is frustrating my rig has produced close to 50 gallons of beer, I'm not giving up, I will figure out how to improve my gas fired brew system.

Next week I'm ordering the high flow regulator with a 1/2" output as well as an orifice that is better suited, if that does not solve the issue I going with...
1- a split high and low pressure system, low pressure for the honeywell gas valve and high for the boil kettle
Or
2- testing out a jet burner to see if I see an improvement

Thoughts????

 

[ssgross]

do you know what your regulator is rated at?
I hypothesize that with a proper regulator, and replacing the black hose, and changing the orifice, you will notice a significant improvement.

I'm locked in to my floor standing burners since they are not mounted inside the rig. I think many in other threads forget that, when it comes to doing a full boil, a burner isn't something you make coffee with when out camping with the fams. It is an appliance that is more powerful than the output of a 50 gal water heater. that kind of output is easily attained at high pressure. At lower pressure you need much bigger hoses to move the same volume of gas. from the chart I posted, 1/2" id should be enough to run both burners.

 

[herc1354]

do you know what your regulator is rated at?

I hypothesize that with a proper regulator, and replacing the black hose, and changing the orifice, you will notice a significant improvement.



I'm locked in to my floor standing burners since they are not mounted inside the rig. I think many in other threads forget that, when it comes to doing a full boil, a burner isn't something you make coffee with when out camping with the fams. It is an appliance that is more powerful than the output of a 50 gal water heater. that kind of output is easily attained at high pressure. At lower pressure you need much bigger hoses to move the same volume of gas. from the chart I posted, 1/2" id should be enough to run both burners.

I know that I have a low pressure regulator that is rated at 120,000btu but it has two issues, one the output is small and two it came with a high flow hard nose POL that seems to not work with all BBQ LP bottles. I'm taking the soft nose POL from on regulator, machine the ID to that of the full flow hard nose POL, I'll see what that gets me. I'm going to check and see if a 3/8 line will fit in the output if my regulator. What size orifice did you say worked well for your setup?

 

[ssgross]

#51 seems to do the trick for my blichmann burners. not sure it will work for yours, but it definitely appears you need a smaller one from your pic.
if you have small metric bits, you can start small and drill it out till you get perfection.

 

[herc1354]

#51 seems to do the trick for my blichmann burners. not sure it will work for yours, but it definitely appears you need a smaller one from your pic.

if you have small metric bits, you can start small and drill it out till you get perfection.

Cool, thanks! I'm fairly sure the blichmann burners are BG-14 banjo burners.

 

[herc1354]

Brewed Saturday, below is what I changed in hopes of fixing the issues of poor heat

1- used a low pressure regulator with a high flow POL, regulator is rated at 160,000 Btu

2- installed a 3/8" outlet on the above regulator with an adapter that allows for connection of a 1/2" supply line, originally the outlet had a 1/4" outlet supply line.

Results...
The burner closest to the propane tank seemed to gain in performance, however the burner controlled by the Honeywell valve, furthest from the tank, was even worse. The flame bounced as if there was a flow issue, adjustment to the honeywell valve seemed to do no good.

Based off of the Brutus Ten build sheets a low pressure LP valve was used, H212a, from more beer, this regulator feed a large gas manifold which then supplied three 8" 10 tip low pressure jet burners. Really I feel the BG-14 burners are too big for my configuration, possibly wrong altogether for low pressure LP use. I feel the main issue is poor LP volume to the Honeywell gas valve.

How I'm going to fix my problems...

1- purchases a two stage regulator with a 1/2" outlet, hopefully this will solve my poor volume issues
2- ditch the current orifices for #51 orifices as suggested by the OP
3- if none of the above works I have a two stage fix
a- install a 8" 10 tip jet burner
b- if a is unsuccessful I my go to supplying the manifold with high pressure LP, from that plumbing in a low pressure regulator JUST for the honeywell valve, at least I can heat quicker operating on high pressure LP under the BK.

FINALLY if all else fails got to electric!

Suggestions/comments?

 

[The_Bishop]

Sounds like you have a supply line issue.

You need to size the lines supplying the burners based on BTU load.

Starting from the last burner, in the line, call it 50,000 btu. The line supplying it needs to flow the volume of gas to support 50k btu. The middle burner is also 50k btu. So the line that feeds that burner and the one following it needs to flow enough volume to support 100k btu. Then you have the first burner, also 50k. The line that feeds that burner is also supplying the final burners, so you need to flow enough gas to support 150k btu.

I'll see if I can make a drawing here:

50k 50k 50k Supply
+---------+----------+---------+
50k 100k 150k

Don't know if that'll look right but it's the basic idea.

 

[herc1354]

I totally understand what you are saying, thanks for the input. I'm going to order a much better regulator, fingers crossed that will work.

 

[herc1354]

So I talked with someone at Tejas smokers today, he assured me that the BG-14 burners were originally designed to work with low pressure propane. One suggestion was to fire off the burner with the air shutter somewhat closed then gradually open it until the flam is blue, further he said with a properly sized orifice the flame will be blue and somewhat low as it is more efficiently burning the propane.

To the OP, how far is the burner from the bottom of your kettle? With the orifice you are using the burner needs to be about 4" from the kettle bottom, no further.

I ordered a two stage regulator and two #51 orifices, the regulator has a 1/2" outlet, this should solve my volume issues, past that I may have an issue with my honeywell valve.

When my new parts arrive I'll post up the outcome.

 

[herc1354]

Go my new regulator and orifices, will report on outcome by Sunday

 

[herc1354]

Okay so the weather has been crazy in NC, I just got around to installing the new parts and the results.....

Honestly I don't see how the new regulator did much good

The new orifices also did not perform too well, so much so as I reinstalled one bought from brewers hardware back on the BK, this gave me a much better boil then ever before.

My real issue is for some reason the HLT burner is surging, this is the burner controlled by the gas valve, so obviously it has something to do with the Honeywell valve. The valve has been adjusted to 11" WC per a gauge hooked into the gas outlet tap. One more thing is that the BK burner never surges even if the HLT burner is lit.

So I think I'm going the rout of a split system, high pressure LP heating the BK, and low pressure for the HLT for PID control, reason...it's taking WAY Tooooooo long to heat strike water as well as a a boil. A 10 gallon IPA took about 7 hours, a lot of which was waiting for water to heat up.

To the original poster,
Your problem may be that you are suffocating the burners, I've read how people will often put spacers underneath their kettles which allows for better combustion of the gas and a better flame. I'm still convinced that BG14 burners are jut not a good choice for low pressure LP.

 

[herc1354]

A small update
I hooked up a gauge to the inlet pressure tap to find out the new regulator was putting out about 15" WC, once I adjusted the regulator down the surging stopped.

 

[CJLong]

Thanks for the updates. I was really hoping you were able to get your burners really going with the low pressure propane, so that I could copy your setup.

Sent from my BNTV600 using Home Brew mobile app

 

[herc1354]

Thanks for the updates. I was really hoping you were able to get your burners really going with the low pressure propane, so that I could copy your setup.

Sent from my BNTV600 using Home Brew mobile app

Yeah me too, currently things seem to be working a bit better. I was able to heat 20 gallons of water to 160 deg on two burners in an about an hour twenty minutes. My next idea is down sizing from bg14 burners to 8" jet burners.

 

[herc1354]

Both burners going at the same time wide open.

I have the larger orifice installed in the burner on the right, while the smaller orifice is on the burner on the left. During my last brew I swapped out orifices on the right burner which seemed to give me the best rolling boil to date, that orifice was the one that more beer sells for low pressure.

In the photo the flame looks low, in reality it is much higher and produces a lot of heat. In my case and perhaps yours I'm using kegs, kegs are not very good at conducting heat, I'd bet a good triclad kettle would perform much better. Also I'm using 14.5 gallon German kegs, due to the narrow nature I end up heating the lower collar to the point of it glowing cherry red, obviously this is taking heat away from the bottom. I plan on using an American sanky keg as the BK on my next brew, the wider bottom should heat better with the big BG14 burner.

During my brew yesterday I boiled down from 12 to 10.5 gallons in an hour, really this is not too bad.

Back to my other thoughts of a split system, a high pressure burner under the BK would probably help a bunch. I've seen some production brew set ups that supply high pressure LP to a gas rail with a low pressure regulator taped off of the LP gas rail, seems like a good idea. BG14 burners can still be used, one with a high pressure orifice and the other with the low pressure orifice. The high pressure LP will be used for boiling and heating strike water faster then normal, while the low pressure burner can be used to maintain specific temps in the HLT with a HERMS Coil which will be used for maintaing correct mash temps.

 

[ssgross]

I finally got around to playing with the gas system and wanted to report my findings.

Most low pressure users in all the forums, including me, have made the mistake of using standard (1/4 id) hose somewhere in the build, after the low pressure regulator. This is like trying to fill a swimming pool with the hose that came with a pressure washer.

What I changed - working back from the burners:
#51 orifice to 5/8od supply line (from lowes, 48" with 1/2"npt connections for $30, came in a kit in the water heater section)
this connects to the honeywell outlet.
From the honeywell, 1/2" black iron pipe to the back of the rig - no change here.
low pressure regulator (see previous post) now mounted directly to the pipe, and not the tank.
The 10psi regulator and hose that came with the burner connects the tank to the rig.

In short, everything after the low pressure regulator should be large id. I use 1/2", even though the outlet on the low pressure regulator is 3/8".

The burners are now roaring like a champ. The sound is similar to when they were operated on high pressure. In fact, if I put the back of my hand by the damper, I can feel the draft of air being sucked into the venturi!

This also fixed the lazy pilot light. The burning propane at the burner has the effect of providing some suction, inducing greater flow of propane up the supply line, and through the honeywell regulator. This appears to have the effect of increasing the flow to the pilot light as well.

The flame on the burners are solid blue, but sometimes the tops flick yelllow. I'm not going to trouble with this since there is no soot on my pots. The boil pot burner took 10 gal of my well water, which is a constant 51.5F year round, to a roaring boil in 60 minutes. On brew day, 13.5gal went from 155 (temp when I lit the burner after sparge), to a roaring boil in a bit less than 20 minutes. :rockin:

i will post back some pics when I wheel it out next brew day (2 weeks, or the first day where the afternoon high peeks above freezing long enough to keep my water hose thawed).

 

[herc1354]

Wow thanks for the suggestions, the only difference between your setup an mine is the 5/8 hose to the # 51 orifice....going to lows at lunch for some parts.

The photo attached is my two stage regulator, the outlet is 1/2". All the gas plumbing on my system is 1/2" with the exception of the line between the burner orifice and burner shutoff valve.

 

[ssgross]

also, take a look at the chart I posted further (a link to plumbing supply). add up all the 1/2"id line after your low pressure regulator and you can calculate the max potential BTU you can deliver to your burner.

for example, in my setup there is 3 ft. black iron pipe, with the honeywell at the end, then 48" supply line up to the burner. The drop in the chart is approximately linear change at approx -950 btu per inch of line. also, make sure that the high pressure side is capable of delivering that btu to the low pressure regulator.

 

[herc1354]

also, take a look at the chart I posted further (a link to plumbing supply). add up all the 1/2"id line after your low pressure regulator and you can calculate the max potential BTU you can deliver to your burner.



for example, in my setup there is 3 ft. black iron pipe, with the honeywell at the end, then 48" supply line up to the burner. The drop in the chart is approximately linear change at approx -950 btu per inch of line. also, make sure that the high pressure side is capable of delivering that btu to the low pressure regulator.

The two stage regulator I have is rated at 200,000 BTU/hr.

I have from the regulator to the end of my gas rail I world say 6', this includes the hose from the regulator to the gas rail, from the honeywell valve to the burner is probably 48". I also have a second burner, which manually controlled, this burner is the closest to the regulator with a about 48-50" total of plumbing.

Now you really have me thinking, and in a good way too, I may do myself a favor by trimming down some plumbing.

 

[ssgross]

the 5/8 od supply line came in a 4 ft. lenghth. I didn't see any smaller lengths at lowes (accept for the 1/2 od (3/8 id), which wouldn't be as effective as per the chart above)

 

[herc1354]

the 5/8 od supply line came in a 4 ft. lenghth. I didn't see any smaller lengths at lowes (accept for the 1/2 od (3/8 id), which wouldn't be as effective as per the chart above)

Yeah that's all I saw too, I have one coming off my regulator connecting it to the gas rail. My plans are to direct connect the regulator to the gas rail, this will remove 4' of plumbing from the low pressure side, I'll go with a 24-36" hose from the POL to the high pressure side if the two stage regulator. Next I'm going to try and shorten up the gas rail, make better use of the 4' flex LP line and do away with perhaps 12-24" of hard plumbing.

 

[herc1354]

ssgross, thank you SO much for the help, while I'm not quite getting the results you are I'm moving in the right direction, this is what I've accomplished...

Adapted the orifice to accept 5/8" plumbing, however from the Honeywell valve to the burner is about 60" of plumbing, so really to get the most out if this system I need to shorten the LP supply lines.

I've mounted my regulator directly to the gas rail.

Currently the larger orifice seems to give me the highest flame, although with yellow tips, while the smaller orifice does not seem to do so well. I think with shorter LP lines I'll be able to use the smaller orifice and achieve the best BTU performance. The attached photo shows why I have such long gas lines, I wanted on/off valves as well as I needed the cross beams to mount the gas pipe to.