BJCP Category for Carbonated Lamic

[FLDanimal]

I carbonate all my lambics as I prefer that style. I would like to enter enter a sparkling lambic in a BJCP competiton but the current BJCP description of lambic states that the beer should be still. Odly enough the old BJCP style guidelines state that lambic may be sparkling. I cant enter it as a geuze as it is not blended and lacks the complexity that aging brings and I cant enter it as a lambic because of the carbonation. Any suggestions as to category? I know carbonation is only 1 point on the score sheet but some judges get hung up on stuff like that and use it as a basis to mark everything down or give a low score due to not meeting style guidelines. Has anyone successfully entered a spakling lambic as a lambic in a BCJP comp?

 

[dantheman13]

You could do what I did and enter it into both categories, assuming the contest allows that. Hopefully the new BJCP guidelines will have category for American Wild Ales.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

just enter it in lambic. my buddy entered a still lambic and the national "judge" tore that beer to PIECES for being "almost a beer" due to being still. you'll probably do just fine

 

[Coff]

If you dont feel confident fitting it into a category then dont waste the beer entering it. I am of the opinion that you should always put your best foot forward in competition, and entering a beer into the right category is a big part of it all.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

if the beer is not already carbonated, why not sit it on some fruit for a few months and enter it in fruit lambic?

eta - where did you read that lambic is now still only? I can't find anything about that update for 2014. It has always said can be either/or. Changing it to still only seems really silly.

 

[dantheman13]

if the beer is not already carbonated, why not sit it on some fruit for a few months and enter it in fruit lambic?

eta - where did you read that lambic is now still only? I can't find anything about that update for 2014. It has always said can be either/or. Changing it to still only seems really silly.

I think he meant the current (2008) guideline. 17D says "Lambic is served uncarbonated."

 

[MileHighBrewer]

I think he meant the current (2008) guideline. 17D says "Lambic is served uncarbonated."

Just read that. You know whats funny, the friend I mentioned going from like a 1st place with a 42 1st round to a 20 something 2nd round because it was still....so he brewed that beer with a few other people in a barrel. Another guy, took 2nd place in 1st round, and I think ended up placing at 2nd round, with the SAME beer, but carbed.

 

[Coff]

In Belgium Lambic is served still, if there is any carbonation it's bc fermentation got going again on the cask/keg/cubtainer.

Wether BJCP says it or not, lambic is still. Tbh I didn't love the young still Lambic when I was in Brussels, the Cantillon was pretty sweet.

 

[ChugachBrewing]

Carbonation is not going to help you in a BJCP competition under the lambic category. Because putting a flat beer in a bottle (where there could be O2) makes me uneasy, I put in 0.5 - 1 small carb tabs and have never been dinged, as "very low" is still allowed.
Funny thing is that in our last competition, one judge almost dinged me for not having any carb. Goes to show that the knowledge in the wild beer dept needs to be more developed.

 

[Coff]

Carbonation is not going to help you in a BJCP competition under the lambic category. Because putting a flat beer in a bottle (where there could be O2) makes me uneasy, I put in 0.5 - 1 small carb tabs and have never been dinged, as "very low" is still allowed.
Funny thing is that in our last competition, one judge almost dinged me for not having any carb. Goes to show that the knowledge in the wild beer dept needs to be more developed.

Thats good advice.

Thats kind of the reason I dont enter mixed culture beers in competition, save for Saisons w/brett only.

 

[dantheman13]

Carbonation is not going to help you in a BJCP competition under the lambic category. Because putting a flat beer in a bottle (where there could be O2) makes me uneasy, I put in 0.5 - 1 small carb tabs and have never been dinged, as "very low" is still allowed.
Funny thing is that in our last competition, one judge almost dinged me for not having any carb. Goes to show that the knowledge in the wild beer dept needs to be more developed.

My recent experience was similar. I submitted the same (carbed) beer as Gueuze and wood-aged, and an uncarbed version as a lambic. It scored a 43 as a Gueuze, a 36.5 as a lambic, and a 29 as a wood-aged beer. The beer had a pretty strong oak presence that blended well with the sour fruity flavors (1 spiral and 3-4 ounces of cubes for 5 gal), and was a bit viscous for a Gueuze because I bottled it too early. Style-wise, it really was a better lambic IMO. I'm not going to argue over the 43 though!

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Funny thing is that in our last competition, one judge almost dinged me for not having any carb. Goes to show that the knowledge in the wild beer dept needs to be more developed.

This is the part that pisses me off. Especially on the bigger level where judges are national or whatever. They obviously READ the criteria, enough to understand and get tested on it. And, tell me, where can you go anywhere in America today, where there isn't a smart phone or tablet within FEET of you in public? Nearly every single person I have seen at a comp, has a smart phone at least. You can download the BJCP guidelines in SECONDS and read it as you are judging. There is absolutely NO reason at all for stuff like this to happen, and if it does, that judge needs to get some rank taken away or have his scores discredited. If you don't know the style, don't sit at the dang table to pass judgement on beers you don't understand. rant/

 

[FLDanimal]

This is the part that pisses me off. Especially on the bigger level where judges are national or whatever. They obviously READ the criteria, enough to understand and get tested on it. And, tell me, where can you go anywhere in America today, where there isn't a smart phone or tablet within FEET of you in public? Nearly every single person I have seen at a comp, has a smart phone at least. You can download the BJCP guidelines in SECONDS and read it as you are judging. There is absolutely NO reason at all for stuff like this to happen, and if it does, that judge needs to get some rank taken away or have his scores discredited. If you don't know the style, don't sit at the dang table to pass judgement on beers you don't understand. rant/

The current state of BJCP judging is pretty poor if you ask me. The lack of test availability means fewer people are even studying and the majority of judges at any competition are very inexperienced non-bjcp judges. Competitions seem like a crap shoot to me. This beer I am considering entering is pretty good so I may just drink it instead of hoping the beer conforms to some judges preconceived notion of what the beer should be.

 

[dantheman13]

The current state of BJCP judging is pretty poor if you ask me. The lack of test availability means fewer people are even studying and the majority of judges at any competition are very inexperienced non-bjcp judges. Competitions seem like a crap shoot to me. This beer I am considering entering is pretty good so I may just drink it instead of hoping the beer conforms to some judges preconceived notion of what the beer should be.

I share those feelings. However, the flip side is that I won a blue ribbon with mine, so now I get to go to the next homebrew club meeting with a chip on my shoulder. I can see how some people get addicted to competitions.

 

[TNGabe]

The current state of BJCP judging is pretty poor if you ask me. The lack of test availability means fewer people are even studying and the majority of judges at any competition are very inexperienced non-bjcp judges. Competitions seem like a crap shoot to me. This beer I am considering entering is pretty good so I may just drink it instead of hoping the beer conforms to some judges preconceived notion of what the beer should be.

Judges are given a print out of the category they are judging.

 

[FLDanimal]

Judges are given a print out of the category they are judging.

I am aware of the judging process. I am Certified (just waiting to take the written to make National should the test ever be made available). Even with the guidelines right in front of them the majority of judges are not very good due to lack of education, technical knowledge, brewing experience, tasting experience, etc... Now you throw a rare category such as 17 in there with green judges and the whole thing is a giant gamble. There is not much motivation to progress if anyone can walk off the street, read a couple paragraphs and judge which seems to be way easier than waiting to hopefully score a seat at an exam two years in the future.

 

[mors]

The current state of BJCP judging is pretty poor if you ask me. The lack of test availability means fewer people are even studying and the majority of judges at any competition are very inexperienced non-bjcp judges. Competitions seem like a crap shoot to me. This beer I am considering entering is pretty good so I may just drink it instead of hoping the beer conforms to some judges preconceived notion of what the beer should be.

Actually I believe it's the opposite of that. There are more people taking the BJCP exam than ever before. Since the moved it to a 3 test system it's much more accessible for new judges to become judges. I do think you find some judges that are higher ranked that got there years ago. I feel like people are held to a higher standard now than years ago since the general level of knowledge homebrewers have is much higher now. I've def met national+ judges that were less knowledgable than people that can only pass the current exam at certified level. The expectations have shifted over the years and the level of knowledge required is higher now.

There are a decent number scheduled out. I know they are working on improving the exam grading process... Hopefully this will encourage more people to become graders and they can up the limits on how many can be scheduled per month. http://www.bjcp.org/exams.php

 

[TNGabe]

I am aware of the judging process. I am Certified (just waiting to take the written to make National should the test ever be made available). Even with the guidelines right in front of them the majority of judges are not very good due to lack of education, technical knowledge, brewing experience, tasting experience, etc... Now you throw a rare category such as 17 in there with green judges and the whole thing is a giant gamble. There is not much motivation to progress if anyone can walk off the street, read a couple paragraphs and judge which seems to be way easier than waiting to hopefully score a seat at an exam two years in the future.

Whoops, meant to quote the post above yours - the one you quoted.