BIAB Setup Questions

[Psywar]

Hello everyone,

I have been spending the last couple weeks trying to figure out what route I wanted to go for an All-Grain setup.
I have very limited space so I have been looking at an electric 15g BIAB setup, but the problem I am running into is I do not have any 240 outlets. I don't have spots on the breaker box to add in 240. I am also not sure how great 120v will be with this big of a kettle.

I am looking to only brew 5-gallon batches, but I will have up to 22lbs of grain in my biggest beer build.

So now I am considering just going with a propane burner.
15g Spike Brewing Kettle.
I want to do the 3 piece ball valve, temp gauge, and a recirculation port at the top. I live in Michigan and with this setup, I will be brewing out in the garage so I was thinking the recirculation port will greatly help in the winter time with keeping temps steady during the mash process?

Do you guys think I need a recirculation port and pump?

I was also looking at getting a custom filter from here: http://utahbiodieselsupply.com/brewingfilters.php#biab
made for my setup to eliminate the bag.

I was thinking I could ask them to make or I could come up with some sort of solid lid for the basket that I could set on top of the grain, put the basket into a 5 gallon bucket and press down on the solid lid to extract any left over sugars and wort stuck in the grain.

Does that sound like a decent idea? My other thought too was if looking at the 15g kettle and I happen to be a bit low on wort from the mash I could have this basket in the 5 gallon bucket and do a warm water sparge over the basket and let it sit for ~10mins or so to extract more sugar/wort to hopefully help with efficiency?

I was wondering if anyone does a propane BIAB setup with a pump? I was wondering about having all those hoses running off the kettle with the propane burner and if anyone had any accidents since I know sometimes the flames will go around the outside of the pot.

Also, does anyone know what is the smallest size burner I could get away with, with this setup?
Then should also ask does the 15g seem alright for a 22lb grain bill?

Thanks, everyone - I hope this all makes sense and I don't sound too dumb. I have been trying to do as much research as possible before I spend $$$

 

[GoeHaarden]

Do you have a stove or clothes dryer that runs on 240v at your place? Could always unplug those while you're brewing, which is what a lot of people do until they get a dedicated 240 line.

As far as recirculating. You don't need to but you can do it. It just takes constant attention adjusting heat unless you have a way to automate your heat source. Do some experiments without recirc and see what kind of heat loss you actually get over time, because you might hold a temp better than you think if you insulate your kettle well.

Any of the burners you can buy for homebrewing would work. However, cheaper ones are usually slower and less efficient.

Silicon tubes are rated for like 500F, and I doubt you will ever have your flame roaring around the kettle during the mash.

 

[Psywar]

I actually have no 240 plugs anywhere in the house lol.
The stove is gas and the dryer and washer both run on the 110.

I know recirculating is not like sparging, but wouldn't it end up pulling more sugars from the grain or is this cancelled out because the water level never really drops?

Thank you for your input above!

 

[pricelessbrewing]

Recirculating generally helps a little with conversion, but it won't significantly increase the lauter, mash, or conversion unless you're having other issues.

Think of it like this, if you have apple juice and recirculated with more apple juice, would the amount of sugar change?

 

[Psywar]

Think of it like this, if you have apple juice and recirculated with more apple juice, would the amount of sugar change?

That actually makes a lot of sense. I guess I was not really thinking of it like that, but yeah I do understand now.

 

[doug293cz]

A 15 gal kettle can handle a BIAB grain bill of up to about 40 lbs for a 6.75 gal pre-boil volume (about a 14 gal mash volume.)

Skip the temp probe sticking into the side of the kettle, it can snag the bag, and will get in the way of the basket. A handheld digital thermometer will be more accurate than the typical kettle thermometer anyway.

If you are going to use a basket, then recirculation is a good idea. If you aren't using a basket, recirc will be more difficult, so better not to recirc without a basket. When recirculating and actively heating, the temp probe needs to be under the basket, or in a tee in the recirc pluming as close to the kettle outlet as possible (i.e. the typical kettle thermometer placement is useless for controlling a recirc system with active heating.)

If you have two separate 20A 120V circuits available to you (separate outlets on the same circuit won't work) you can run 2X 2000W heating elments, which is enough so that heating to a strike temps and boil won't take "forever." Using a single 2000W element it might take you 45 min, or more, to get to strike temp, and another 45 minutes to get to boil.

I wouldn't bother recirculating with a propane system. Just insulate well, and skip the basket (that's how I brew.)

Any propane burner with a ~10" diameter banjo element and wind guard will get you fast heating with propane. Smaller banjo burners (e.g. Bayou Classic SQ10) will work, but are noticeably slower than the larger burners. Jet burners are inefficient and very noisy. I recommend avoiding those.

Brew on

 

[Psywar]

Thanks sir for all that info!
This will actually save me quite a bit of money on fittings and fixtures.

After much thought, I think I am going to go with a propane system as much as I didn't want to due to lack of space I had to look at all my factors and safety concerns.

Using a 15g pot and 20lbs of grain is pretty much going to require me to brew near ground level.
We sometimes have little kids running around here so I cannot have hot things near ground level. We also have a couple dogs who are always curious but even on top of that there is usually hair flying around no matter how well we keep things clean. I really don't want a bunch of dog hair in my beer either.

So I think going with a propane setup in the garage might work best. I also can probably rig up something to help me pull the grain bag out of the kettle as well which is a plus.

The one reason I was considering going electric as I am currently looking for a new job since I will be graduating soon and I have expanded my search to other states and I know I am going to end up in an apartment setting eventually. I thought an all electric setup would be great for that, but thinking about where I have lived in the past I can probably get away with a single kettle propane setup pretty much anywhere I move to.

So I am now looking at:
10" diameter burner w/ wind guard
15g Spike Brewing Kettle - 3 Ball Valve (Possible Sight Glass) - No Temp gauge in the middle of the kettle
Digital Temp Guage (Needs to be placed near the bottom of kettle)
Brew Bag (Probably Custom Made?)
Wort Chiller
Magnetic Drive Pump

Do I still want some sort of false bottom to keep the bag off the bottom?
Also with what you said about the temp gauge. I thought I had seen a photo of someone who installed a digital probe right on the ball valve assembly to get the reading from the very bottom?

I wonder if I should just have Spike weld me on a custom bung near the bottom next to the ball valve?

 

[wilserbrewer]

I would start basic and add features as you see the need / desire.

In that regard all you NEED is a kettle, burner, hand held digital thermometer, bag and pulley.

Brew a few batches and go from there....

 

[balrog]

I would start basic and add features as you see the need / desire.

In that regard all you NEED is a kettle, burner, hand held digital thermometer, bag and pulley.

Brew a few batches and go from there....

+1. Simple is better. Really REALLY better.

 

[Nmnbrewer]

You pretty much described my system. Simple and inexpensive no. Elegant and functional yes. With regards to your heat source, have spike put a 1.5" triclamp port on the side in case you do have access to electric in the future. View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1504449839.152178.jpgView attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1504450974.568770.jpg

 

[Psywar]

Thanks everyone!

 

[BongoYodeler]

If you end up brewing in the garage, and since you have natural gas, you may want to get the optional natural gas converter for your burner if available, (about $15), if your gas line is anywhere near your garage. Keep the LP nozzle in case your next home doesn't have natural gas, it's easy to swap between the two. I have the Spike 15g kettle and use a Blichmann burner with natural gas, and 24 inch leg extenders. Works like a dream, and not having to mess with LP tanks is great.

 

[Psywar]

Thanks! I never even considered this as an option.
I will look into it and see if I am able to tap into the gas line in the garage.

 

[kevin58]

There is a system made by High Gravity that I am looking at. It has a controller that monitors temperature and turns on the recirc pump when needed.

 

[doug293cz]

There is a system made by High Gravity that I am looking at. It has a controller that monitors temperature and turns on the recirc pump when needed.

If you are going to recirc, you should do so continuously during the mash, and turn the heat on/off to maintain mash temps. You are more likely to have "stuck" recirc issues if you do intermittent recirc.

Brew on

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

Think of it like this, if you have apple juice and recirculated with more apple juice, would the amount of sugar change?

Uhhhm that's not a very good comparison, when you mash malted grain you're trying to :

• extract starches from grain .
• and expose all these starches to the enzymes that will make fermentable sugar from starch.

Recirculating improves the efficiency of these two activities considerably, however it may not have a large effect on the end result for something like a 90 minute mash (as an example).

 

[doug293cz]

Uhhhm that's not a very good comparison, when you mash malted grain you're trying to :

• extract starches from grain .
• and expose all these starches to the enzymes that will make fermentable sugar from starch.

Recirculating improves the efficiency of these two activities considerably, however it may not have a large effect on the end result for something like a 90 minute mash (as an example).

Recirculation may help speed the gelatinization process (first, and rate controlling, step in conversion) by encouraging the dissolution of low density, highly gelatinized, starch at the surface of the grits, thus reducing the diffusion length required for water to access the core of the grit to accomplish more gelatinization. So the effect is primarily on the rate of conversion.

Once conversion is complete, and the wort concentration has been homogenized, recirculation of wort will do nothing to improve lauter efficiency (or convert starch, which no longer exists.) Recirculation can speed up homogenization of wort concentration, but if you have been recirculating the mash, the wort should already be homogeneous. If the mash was not recirculated, then stirring will homogenize the wort faster than recirculation, in the case of no false bottom. If you have a false bottom, then you should recirculate prior to run-off to get the low SG wort out from under the FB, and back into the grain bed, since stirring doesn't have much effect on wort under the FB.

Increasing lauter efficiency requires dilution and draining of the residual wort held by the grain after initial run-off. In fly sparging, the initial run-off and dilution and run-off are happening simultaneously at different levels in the grain bed.

Brew on

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

I like that post even though Doug uses a LOT of big words

 

[doug293cz]

I like that post even though Doug uses a LOT of big words

Sometimes one big word can replace many smaller words. And, being the lazy typist I am ...

Brew on

 

[SleepyCreekBrews]

Sometimes one big word can replace many smaller words. And, being the lazy typist I am ...

Brew on

I thin you may have exceeded the homogenized word limit .

 

[doug293cz]

I thin you may have exceeded the homogenized word limit .

I don't know enough synonyms for homogenized.

Brew on

 

[kevin58]

If you are going to recirc, you should do so continuously during the mash, and turn the heat on/off to maintain mash temps. You are more likely to have "stuck" recirc issues if you do intermittent recirc.

Brew on

Have you seen the High Gravity BIAB system?

 

[doug293cz]

Have you seen the High Gravity BIAB system?

Ok, just went and looked at the HG BIAB controller. Appears to be a pretty simple controller built around an Auber EZBoil. Nothing unusual here (I've designed several versions of this type of controller myself.)

I didn't see any mention of automatic recirc pump control. As far as I can tell, the pump is controlled by a simple manual switch.

Brew on

 

[kevin58]

Ok, just went and looked at the HG BIAB controller. Appears to be a pretty simple controller built around an Auber EZBoil. Nothing unusual here (I've designed several versions of this type of controller myself.)

I didn't see any mention of automatic recirc pump control. As far as I can tell, the pump is controlled by a simple manual switch.

Brew on

Both pump and heating element are controlled by the Wort Hog.

 

[doug293cz]

Both pump and heating element are controlled by the Wort Hog.

I understand how the Wort Hog automatically controls the heating element. But my understanding is that the pump is controlled by a manual on/off switch on the control box, but no automatic pump control. Do you have information contrary to this? If so. please provide links.

Brew on